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Traeth Mawr -Building Mr Price's house , (mostly)


ChrisN
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Here's a very hypothetical theory as to what happened with the horse box. Train from Machynlleth arrives at Barmouth Junction, with box behind the engine. They have to get it in front drop it in the siding, so engine and box detach, go round the triangle, then re-attach to the front of the train with box leading. Set off for Barmouth and take the wrong loop road to get at the siding. :)

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On 26/01/2021 at 10:19, Northroader said:

The footbridge at Barmouth was really in effect two passageways side by side with a dividing fence between them.

 

Inside for ticket-holders, outside for public right-of-way. Teddington (an ex-LSWR station in Middlesex) has a similar arrangement.

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1 hour ago, NCB said:

 

Here's a very hypothetical theory as to what happened with the horse box. Train from Machynlleth arrives at Barmouth Junction, with box behind the engine. They have to get it in front drop it in the siding, so engine and box detach, go round the triangle, then re-attach to the front of the train with box leading. Set off for Barmouth and take the wrong loop road to get at the siding. :)

 

Nigel,

That I think is a good theory, I am sure it could certainly happen on the Cambrian.

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1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Inside for ticket-holders, outside for public right-of-way. Teddington (an ex-LSWR station in Middlesex) has a similar arrangement.

 

Teddington.  I know Teddington, but I do not remember that.  Mind you I probably only used it once or twice a year.

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Robert Parry got impatient and wanted his wagon to be lettered.  Unfortunately instead of going to an expert, Great-Granddad Westerham, that is Adrian's ancestor, he decided to go to a young lad from Harlech who was just setting up in business.  The lad wanted payment in advance, and Mr Parry was only going to pay him two pints of the local brew.  Once in the Railway Inn the lad demanded another pint.  Mr Parry helped him out afterwards and let him loose on his wagon.

 

679529773_Transfer1.jpg.d5fb0270ac696994069613efd6f277aa.jpg

 

I decided that I was not going to let the small size of the transfer beat me, so under my lamp \i cut out the letters I needed.  I started with Mawr, as I wanted to see how much space I had, and I did not put them close enough together.  I was a little disappointed, but in a way not surprised.  Traeth had to go round a rivet and to my surprise I got three letters in before it, even though I had expected to have the 'A' over it.  The 'E' is half on it and I am not sure what I was thinking about the last two.

 

I was then going to try the other side but thought I would matt varnish it first so as to stop it being rubbed off.  It may be poor but there is a limited number of some letters.  I shook the varnish for a while but when opened they were a browny colour and probably it probably needs a good stir, which is a waste for the tiny amount I would use against the amount on my stirrer.  I am not sure whether I will try the other side next or try the non italic ones for 'Coal Merchant' and try and get some larger ones for 'Parry', then varnish the whole side.  (Thank you Jonathan for your kind offer but I probably ought to buy a stash of my own.)

 

I was going to say that I have never had this problem with transfers before and show you this picture.

 

822536315_PriceandLewis.JPG.f6deb70d25e6cc95e6afa21c68e36d74.JPG

 

Yes, on the far right a lone, '3', which actually looking again is a bit wonky.  Oh dear.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

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Two or three weeks ago I decided that I would bite the bullet and make the roof for the MSLR Tricomposite.  I had ben hesitating because I have an old bottle, (elderflower pressé?) and really wanted a funnel to help pour the boiling water into it.  That was never going to happen until after lockdown, vaccination etc., so I decided to try it without.  I marked the seam on both sides to ensure I knew the vertical.

 

I then cut my plasticard, and for the first time remembered to mark the centre and the places for the oil tops before it was formed into the roof.  I then drilled the holes.  The card was stuck to the bottle with masking tape and using @Simond's suggestion I took a pair of my wife's tights to ensure it stayed in place.  (These were sourced a few years ago for the purpose of hoovering up ballast, but as you may gather have never been used for that purpose.)

 

Boiling water was poured in carefully, managing not to spill a drop, the top screwed on and left overnight.  Success!  The oil tops were then added.

 

132579156_Roof2.jpg.5a49840de235d754a32d12a76870b6f1.jpg

 

I usually make supports to hold it in place so that I can remove the roof.  They have to be tight against the ends so I normally guess where it needs to go, attach it with polystyrene cement, then put the roof on the carriage and push the supports towards the ends with a long pointy thing through the windows. This has the problem that it is possible to get glue everywhere.  This time I decided to hold it in place with Blu-Tak, mark it, then glue it using solvent.  Did it work?  Well, yes and no.  The supports are not quite as tight as I would like them, but there was no glue on the inside of the coach.

 

Now I thought I had shown a picture of the Stroudley Brake with its roof.

 

1966208615_StroudleyBrake12.jpg.cb99e33ff2bbbba2b0911ae7d869e613.jpg

 

I think I have but only in the un-primered condition.  Here the roof has primer, the oil tops are painted and the ends are vermillion.

 

2056180564_StroudleyBrake13.jpg.cb269cf55e215b694c8d81492882a177.jpg

 

Here are the supports for this one.  The one on the end is to fit in the guards compartment, in front of the section with the ducket.

 

You might also notice the pieces of plasticard under the wheels.  This is to ensure that they do not try and make a dash for it, onto the extension floor, which is panelled wood and is no fun if you fall on it.

 

So finally, here are the roofs of my Cambrian Thirds.

 

2033392911_Painted4.JPG.aa20444b14b0ff7eea47f95f50d86ce5.JPG

 

 

They are painted in Humbrol 164 Dark Sea Grey, which is of course lead white attacked by sulphur.  So, question.  Would each companies roof weather to the same colour or should each company have a slightly different grey?  Yes, I know it is a silly question, but would they?  The LBSCR Saloon has a white roof as it has only recently been painted, I mean, it is almost Sir Jon's private coach, but the others will be grey.  Wil I need four shades of grey, or will they all the the same?  (Actually it is five, but at first the LNWR will be generics so they will be whatever they turn up as.)

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

 

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2 hours ago, richard i said:

Roofs will all get mucky in the same way. Colour difference is length out of works not the company they belong to. I use precision br roof colour which seems to give a dirty grey colour. Even though it says it is for post 48 stock only.

 

In the early stages, there is a distinction between roof that were painted white and roofs that were painted grey. Also, superheating made a difference - producing an oilier smoke that sticks more easily.

 

I doubt theat Precision have any good evidence that the colour of dirt changed at nationalisation.

 

2 hours ago, Northroader said:

Do go careful pouring boiling water into glass bottles, there’s a good chance of cracking the vessel. 

 

I use water that's been allowed to go off the boil for a minute or two. Also I immerse the plasticard, i.e. put the bottle in the cafetiere, with water inside and out. 

 

I hadn't come across the tights idea - presumably you pull them over the bottle as if it were her leg? I'm in enough trouble already with stealing tights to put the pips in when making marmalade!

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2 hours ago, richard i said:

Roofs will all get mucky in the same way. Colour difference is length out of works not the company they belong to. I use precision br roof colour which seems to give a dirty grey colour. Even though it says it is for post 48 stock only.

richard 

 

12 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

In the early stages, there is a distinction between roof that were painted white and roofs that were painted grey. Also, superheating made a difference - producing an oilier smoke that sticks more easily.

 

I doubt theat Precision have any good evidence that the colour of dirt changed at nationalisation.

 

 

Thank you.  It was a silly question, but it just adds another level of difference.  If I can have regularly 3 other companies than the Cambrian with their different liveries it seems a shame that the roofs will all the the same colour.  I just wondered if the mix of white was different between companies.  Perhaps I will get some other dark greys and have a lottery to as which get what.  However, if the amount of lead per square foot of roof is consistent, which of course it is as I am sure that every painter puts the same amount of paint on, :whistle:, then all coach roofs will tend towards the same colour

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3 hours ago, Northroader said:

Do go careful pouring boiling water into glass bottles, there’s a good chance of cracking the vessel. The end jobs do look very good, though.

 

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

I use water that's been allowed to go off the boil for a minute or two. Also I immerse the plasticard, i.e. put the bottle in the cafetiere, with water inside and out. 

 

I hadn't come across the tights idea - presumably you pull them over the bottle as if it were her leg? I'm in enough trouble already with stealing tights to put the pips in when making marmalade!

 

I have never had any problems adding boiling water to bottles, but perhaps I should warm the bottle up first.  Obviously I d not have it on a cold surface.  Putting it in an oven would be the best but more of a waste of power.  I could try sneaking it in under the roast I suppose.  :D

 

Yes, the tights were on the outside of the bottle  to hold everything in place.  I used to use cardboard wrapped round with laces to give an even pressure but tights seem just as good.  As to getting them, I just wait until my wife throws them away.  They may have the odd hole or ladder but they are still functioning as far as using them for model making is concerned.

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36 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

Thank you.  It was a silly question, but it just adds another level of difference.  If I can have regularly 3 other companies than the Cambrian with their different liveries it seems a shame that the roofs will all the the same colour.  I just wondered if the mix of white was different between companies.  Perhaps I will get some other dark greys and have a lottery to as which get what.  However, if the amount of lead per square foot of roof is consistent, which of course it is as I am sure that every painter puts the same amount of paint on, :whistle:, then all coach roofs will tend towards the same colour

 

I think they all used white lead, just with lamp black mixed in to get grey, if required. So I like your reasoning in your last sentence.

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Old carriages had roofs built from lengthwise strips of wood fixed to curved ribs. This was covered by a layer of canvas, and this was coated in lead paint to render it waterproof. The canvas meant that the surface was quite rough, and impossible to clean. If a roof left the shops painted white, it wouldn’t be able to stay that way for very long, just becoming darker through any shade of grey to a sooty black.

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I have often wondered why roofs were white.  Stagecoaches and other early vehicles are usually shown with black roofs.  Was the GWR 'white upper sides' directive of 1864 interpreted as applying to the roofs as well? 

 

I suppose if white lead was cheap and available then it was used, while recognising that it would soon darken.

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6 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

As @Northroader says, it was waterproof.

 

True, but any lead paint would be waterproof.  I assume that white was the cheapest and most passengers would not see the roof, well except for all the people in the bus on all the bridges, or crossing by the footbridge, or at the top of an embankment, or..., most passengers would not see the roof so why not paint it the cheapest?

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23 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

True, but any lead paint would be waterproof.  I assume that white was the cheapest and most passengers would not see the roof, well except for all the people in the bus on all the bridges, or crossing by the footbridge, or at the top of an embankment, or..., most passengers would not see the roof so why not paint it the cheapest?

 

6 minutes ago, Simond said:

It probably was the cheapest.  If you wanted any other colour, you’d have to add something else.

 

My understanding is that white lead was preferred for woodwork and similar, whereas red lead was preferred for metalwork, as it chemically bonds with the iron; it is also water-resistant. That is why the Forth Bridge is red, not white. The actual use or red lead paint on the Forth Bridge was discontinued many years ago but the colour has been kept for tradition's sake, I suppose. In much the same way, Halford's red primer is a good match for red lead. (Not to be confused with oxide of iron, a rather darker red, or bauxite, a much browner colour.)

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2 hours ago, ChrisN said:

Putting it in an oven would be the best but more of a waste of power.  I could try sneaking it in under the roast I suppose.  :D


Please don’t stick it in the oven with the roast: The temperature that a roast goes in at similar to the temperature you would take plastic up to make it all gooey for injection moulding. 
 

My Dad once tried to ‘line bend’ some plastic in the oven over a former for something to do with his PhD. It really smelled bad and almost caught fire. Fortunately the kitchen was next to the front door and the offending article could be dispatched to the garden promptly. Somehow the smell subsided sufficiently that my Mum didn’t notice when she arrived home and he got away with it in that respect. 

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The modern theory seems to be that white roofs go darker because of chemical reactions in the paint, rather than dirt. In fact if you take Cambrian roofs, being in a non-industrial setting with frequent washes of pure Welsh rain, most muck will get washed off.

 

With white roofs on wagons, I evolved a technique of using mixed passes of Halfords white and grey primer to produce varing degrees of off-white. This worked to my satisfaction, with different shades amongst the wagons common. I've also experimented with adding dilute washes of grey/brown acrylics which gives a bit more of a weathered look, but haven't taken this very far yet.

 

The same technique didn't seem to work well for coaches. The grey produced had a slightly blueish cast which shows up on the larger area. So all my white coach roofs are, well, white. At least Halfords white primer is a somewhat dull white.

 

For curving plasticard roofs, if it's a constant radius curve then i find cutting the roof to size and using rollers works.

 

Nigel

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11 hours ago, richbrummitt said:


Please don’t stick it in the oven with the roast: The temperature that a roast goes in at similar to the temperature you would take plastic up to make it all gooey for injection moulding. 
 

My Dad once tried to ‘line bend’ some plastic in the oven over a former for something to do with his PhD. It really smelled bad and almost caught fire. Fortunately the kitchen was next to the front door and the offending article could be dispatched to the garden promptly. Somehow the smell subsided sufficiently that my Mum didn’t notice when she arrived home and he got away with it in that respect. 

 

Never fear, I was only joking, although @uax6, Andy G, does wrap his roofs around a pipe and puts them in his Aga.  His roof making is a winter pastime when the Aga is on and he uses the low temperature oven.  

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10 hours ago, NCB said:

The modern theory seems to be that white roofs go darker because of chemical reactions in the paint, rather than dirt. In fact if you take Cambrian roofs, being in a non-industrial setting with frequent washes of pure Welsh rain, most muck will get washed off.

 

With white roofs on wagons, I evolved a technique of using mixed passes of Halfords white and grey primer to produce varing degrees of off-white. This worked to my satisfaction, with different shades amongst the wagons common. I've also experimented with adding dilute washes of grey/brown acrylics which gives a bit more of a weathered look, but haven't taken this very far yet.

 

The same technique didn't seem to work well for coaches. The grey produced had a slightly blueish cast which shows up on the larger area. So all my white coach roofs are, well, white. At least Halfords white primer is a somewhat dull white.

 

For curving plasticard roofs, if it's a constant radius curve then i find cutting the roof to size and using rollers works.

 

Nigel

 

Nigel,

Thank you. I have three 6t box vans built, but not painted and are in my pending list.  I am sure I have both types of Halfords primer, so when the weather warms up I will give it a go.

 

When you say 'rollers' do you mean a set of rollers like a mangle, or rolling a piece of doweling or some such, on a soft surface?  I tried the latter at your suggestion on a couple of roofs, to no effect.  The soft surface was a mouse mat upside down, so maybe not soft enough.  Gary, @BlueLightning, uses a towel which I shall try next time.  I use 30 thou plasticard, which is quite stiff, (I rolled a thin cardboard roof with no problem), but was the thickness that was thought best when I remade a Hornby 4 wheeler, way back in the mist of time.

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I just use whichever grey paint I come across first, though not too dark. If it was for a rake which would stay together I would probably do them all the same.

I really like the Cambrian carriages.

Jonathan

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