Traeth Mawr -Building Mr Price's house , (mostly)

[Charlie586]

Have you got any photos of the electrotren? I don't think I've seen one before.

[ChrisN]

13 minutes ago, Charlie586 said:

Have you got any photos of the electrotren? I don't think I've seen one before.

Charlie,

No, but give me a couple of days and I will post one.

[ChrisN]

Just like buses, no posts for ages and then two come along at once.

 

You may ask, "Whatever happened to...…..?" I can think of several but how about the Dean Bogie?

 

This was where we left it

 

 

Well thanks to your help with pictures and JCLs thread plus help from Mike Trice I have progressed.  The pictures showed that the two vertical strappings were in fact connected to the axlebox and the top rectangle is in fact the bottom of the coach giving me this

 

 

You can see it is two mirrored parts.  I have connected the strapping and removed the individual springs.  I suppose I could have scored the top one

 

All of this is grouped but the components are grouped so you can ungroup the components.  So taking most things away leaves you this

 

 

 

 

You see I have the bogie, with the holes where the rivets go.  It was copied, mirrored and lines drawn at either end to make certain that they are exactly opposite.  You will also notice that I forgot to include the hole for the pin point bearing.  I did eventually notice and started again.

 

JCL feels that either side of the bogie should be joined to ensure that they line up.  I am not convinced about this, but he has actually made bogies successfully and I as yet have not, so rather than do it incorrectly I have joined them together.

 

 

Two rectangles, one skewed, are drawn across.  The first has a circle in it to give a 'side to it to make sure they are all the same way round.  The circle and rectangle can be 'welded' to make one shape, the rectangles acnnot be 'welded with the bogies as the bogies are lots of individual components and hitting the 'weld' button just selects all the components.  It is a bit annoying as you then have to enlarge it as big as it will go and delete the lines where they cross and then group everything.

 

 

 

Voila!  This has had the rivet holes removed.  This will go in front of the one with holes so I can push a pointer through to make 'bumps' that look like rivets.  There will be a second of these to go behind this and the other one so that there are an odd number of layers.

 

Have to go, next up are the springs.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

 

[ChrisN]

As promised here are pictures of the Electrotren 2-4-0.  There is an 0-6-0 as well which is currently still being made.

 

 

Half front view

 

 

The body shell off showing the motor and an enormous lead weight.  (It is quite heavy so in its unmodified state should pull a fair load.

 

 

Finally with the lead removed and on the other side so you can see the motor and the gears.

 

 

It is not that obvious that the gearing sticks out over the side of the chassis.  If I wished to modify this all that would be left of the original would be the chassis block.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

Edited October 12, 2019 by ChrisN

[Charlie586]

Thanks Chris.  What's the wheelbase? Although I think the motor would stick out behind the cab for what I need. There's never a simple solution, is there.

[ChrisN]

6 hours ago, Charlie586 said:

Thanks Chris.  What's the wheelbase? Although I think the motor would stick out behind the cab for what I need. There's never a simple solution, is there.

 

I will start with a picture

 

 

The width of the chassis is 11 mm and the overhang of the box to the side is 7mm + 3 mm for the screw heads.  The whole thing screws apart so you could strip it back to the bare chassis.  The motor appears to be flat with the armature coming out of the side to the gears.  The final gears meshes with a gear behind each driving wheel.  The wheel are quite thick.

 

I think this one cost around £25.00 on eBay.  I was surprised to get it as they have gone for much more than that.  I tend to put in my maximum bid and hope.  Eventually you get one when everyone is away, or watching the tele, and you get it for the proce you are willing to pay, sometimes less.

 

Hope that all helps.

[Charlie586]

Thanks Chris. Seems a good buy for £25. Although it wouldn't work for what I was thinking of (open cab GWR 1300 on the Culm Valley) it's handy to know for the future.

[JCL]

On 11/10/2019 at 14:15, ChrisN said:

JCL feels that either side of the bogie should be joined to ensure that they line up.  I am not convinced about this, but he has actually made bogies successfully and I as yet have not, so rather than do it incorrectly I have joined them together.

 

Hi Chris, it's something Mike T and I talked about. I don't remember what I wrote, but in the end, it wasn't so much that they helped line everything up as the bearings acting as pegs did that. But it did make things easier/faster, as you are doing both sides of the bogie at the same time.

Edited October 14, 2019 by JCL

[MikeTrice]

It was to ensure that the sides had the same orientation when stacking. As you say the bearings act as pegs

[JCL]

That was it - it was a while ago now.

[ChrisN]

22 hours ago, JCL said:

 

Hi Chris, it's something Mike T and I talked about. I don't remember what I wrote, but in the end, it wasn't so much that they helped line everything up as the bearings acting as pegs did that. But it did make things easier/faster, as you are doing both sides of the bogie at the same time.

 

11 hours ago, MikeTrice said:

It was to ensure that the sides had the same orientation when stacking. As you say the bearings act as pegs

 

7 hours ago, JCL said:

That was it - it was a while ago now.

 

Thank you.  I was certain that you did it for a good reason, which is why I copied it.  I also assume that it s less fiddley as you have larger pieces to work with.

 

Part two will be put up when I have time in the next couple of days and the end of October rapidly approaches when I go from two days a week work to, er, none.  That will be when I actually get out my cutter and start seeing how to use it.  I am sure I will be on your threads when that happens.

[JCL]

Hi Chris. The only thing I found with the Barnum bogies was that they had a fair bit of flex in them. Although, they were pretty long at 10’6”.

[ChrisN]

Only two weeks, just over, until my tunnel has reached outside the wire, so I will be away and not have to go back, even two days a week, so I will be fully retired.  This may mean I have time to do some modelling regularly.  

 

I had hoped to get some time this week, but what I did was a bit truncated, and spent just over half an hour trying to find the issue on my layout.  It is not a short.  What is happening is that when the first board is connected to the others, the voltage is reduced to start with, stays steady for a few seconds and then drops to zero.  It seems like it is charging up some sort of capacitor, then running to ground, or the capacitance is providing a negative voltage.  Does not make a lot of sense to me, especially as it went from working to not working over a few weeks period without being pulled apart.

 

Having said that things probably got moved around underneath it so wires could have been pulled.  I did find though that if I unplugged the connecting plugs but connected the boards by wires between the tracks I have the same effect.  This means it is not the other wiring connected to the plug so this issue is definitely not in the wiring of board one.  

 

I tried changing all the points into various positions to see if this made a difference.  It did not.  I cannot remember if I disconnected board two from three and four, but that will be the next thing to try.

 

My grandson is due around again next Wednesday so perhaps Monday will see some progress..  Do not hold your breath though.

 

I have a copy of British Steam Locomotives by O.S. Nock.  Did I see it at ExpoEM? Anyway it was too good and cheap not to buy.  I came across the GWR 157 class, a 2-2-2 express locomotive.  (Not to be confused with the 517 0-4-2 tank which may just make an appearance on my layout, or the 715 class, which is held at the loco College of further education and is Latin revision. {Sorry}).

 

Mr Nock said that they were used for a number of years, especially during the 1890s on the Northern Expresses out of Paddington.  This interests me as the through coaches that I am building will have come up on that train.  I have the coach loadings for 1904 but need to get to Kew Archives to check if there are any earlier ones.  (There are coach listings but maybe not for the Northern Express.)  In 1904 they were not using corridor coaches which I find interesting as I read that in 1890 or so the Northern Express was the first regular corridor train.  

 

In 1904 it was an interesting train as out of six coaches leaving Paddington only two were going to Birkenhead, the rest were through coaches to other places, and I think they picked up another one ay Birmingham.  I am sure in 1904 the through coach for Barmouth Traeth Mawr  went on the first of two but I want to find out if in the 90s, particularly 1895 if they went on the 9:50 am, which was fast, or the 10:00am which was semi-fast.  I think they went on the second as when that one reached Ruabon there was only an eight minute wait for the connecting train to depart, but if it had gone on the first one they would have waited an hour for the same train.

 

So, if anyone knows anything about the 157s, or the Northern Expresses please let me know.  It seems I have whittered on so much it is too late to do a proper update on the rest of the bogie.  Perhaps tomorrow night when I am back from seeing all my children.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[Compound2632]

I suspect that Nock got his information from Ahrons*. Where Nock writes about the 19th century, he's usually regurgitating Ahrons or, to a lesser extent, Charles Rous-Marten. Ahrons has quite a lot to say about both the Northern Zulu etc. and the 157 class - too much to quote here, I'm afraid. If you can't get hold of a copy - it should be possible to find it for around £12 - £15 second hand - I could scan and send you the relevant bits. Vol. 4, which covers the Great Western in two chapters, broad and standard, also contains a chapter on the Cambrian.

 

*E.L. Ahrons, Locomotive and train working in the latter part of the nineteenth century Vol. 4 (Heffer, 1953, reprinted from The Railway Magazine, 1915/6, 1922/3).

[Charlie586]

There's a photo here, is it the same as in the Nock book you have?  

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrls2063.htm

 

[Compound2632]

That's an ugly-looking machine, if you will forgive me for saying so. Ahrons says of these engines that he had "always considered that in their original condition, as they ran from 1879 until 1886-7, they were the most handsome express engines ever built." But he was a Swindon apprentice in the late 80s so his judgement may be biased.

 

EDIT: I see the writer of the Warwickshire Railways caption has read Ahrons too.

Edited October 19, 2019 by Compound2632

[ChrisN]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

I suspect that Nock got his information from Ahrons*. Where Nock writes about the 19th century, he's usually regurgitating Ahrons or, to a lesser extent, Charles Rous-Marten. Ahrons has quite a lot to say about both the Northern Zulu etc. and the 157 class - too much to quote here, I'm afraid. If you can't get hold of a copy - it should be possible to find it for around £12 - £15 second hand - I could scan and send you the relevant bits. Vol. 4, which covers the Great Western in two chapters, broad and standard, also contains a chapter on the Cambrian.

 

*E.L. Ahrons, Locomotive and train working in the latter part of the nineteenth century Vol. 4 (Heffer, 1953, reprinted from The Railway Magazine, 1915/6, 1922/3).

 

Stephen,

Thank you.  Just looked on Abe Books and got a copy for a tenner.  There are two whole sets for less than forty quid.  It should arrive by next week sometime.  It is something I should have as it has all the Welsh railways in it.  

 

 

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, ChrisN said:

 

Just looked on Abe Books and got a copy for a tenner.  

 

 

A purchase you will not regret. The only thing you might regret is not buying the complete 6 volumes!

[ChrisN]

2 hours ago, Charlie586 said:

There's a photo here, is it the same as in the Nock book you have?  

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrls2063.htm

 

 

Charlie,

Yes that is the one.  I assume it is on its way back from the north.

[ChrisN]

5 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

A purchase you will not regret. The only thing you might regret is not buying the complete 6 volumes!

 

Stephen,

I did think about it but my interests are quite limited.   umm I suppose Ahrons on the LCDR might be interesting and a bit closer than the RTCS book I have.

[Mikkel]

Hi Chris. Just two weeks to go now, that's very close! Is it with mixed feelings or plain relief?

 

Somewhere I have a good and well illustrated article on the Cobham's, but I can't for the life of me remember where. I thought it was Locomotives Illustrated but it seems not. Could have been GWRJ but I can't find it in the index. Will PM you if I find it.

[MikeOxon]

15 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

That's an ugly-looking machine, if you will forgive me for saying so. ...................

Dean seems to have been unable to make up his mind about domes. 

 

I don't think placing the dome on the front ring is aesthetically pleasing but there were many variations amongst the class - as shown by illustrations in Russell. 

 

Some started life with no dome at all, while others acquired domes on the centre ring of the boilers, which I think looked much more attractive,  The class ended up domeless with Belpaire fireboxes and safety valves on the boiler.  It seems  curious that Dean also reverted to slotted sandwich frames, after Armstrong's 'Queen' class had plate frames - probably part of the pretence that the 157s were 'rebuilds' rather than new engines..

Edited October 20, 2019 by MikeOxon

[ChrisN]

7 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Hi Chris. Just two weeks to go now, that's very close! Is it with mixed feelings or plain relief?

 

Somewhere I have a good and well illustrated article on the Cobham's, but I can't for the life of me remember where. I thought it was Locomotives Illustrated but it seems not. Could have been GWRJ but I can't find it in the index. Will PM you if I find it.

 

Mikkel,

Thank you, any article would be most welcome.

 

I have been semi-retired for a while now and mostly it has been enjoyable but there was new legislation introduced last year that has made everything more difficult especially as I have only two days a week to introduce everything needed.  I hesitated for a while about retiring but once I made the decision I am really looking forward to it.  I have more than enough to keep me busy so I will not get bored.

[ChrisN]

Well gentle reader, I suppose you deserve a proper update after your reactions and messages, but first...… I was looking at Faversham Station today.  Well, just because.  Interesting as it was rebuilt in 1897 and was extended.  If, having finished Traeth Mawr, and the Twll Ddu narrow gauge station I might turn my modelling to this.  (Maidenhead?  umm maybe.)  The current station, from the latticework foot bridge, a real eye blocker for the end of the layout comes out at 10ft 2", if you take it back to the shorter platforms pre 1897 but include the station building it comes out at 7ft 7".  (Sorry Mikkel that is 3.1m and 2.3m.)  If it ever gets built I can feel some truncation coming on.  Why am I spending my time doing research that is not very relevant.  Well I am not sure what research is relevant at the moment, and I am doing it while I do other things, like ironing, winding down as I go to bed etc.

 

So, update on the layouts electrical problems.  I unplugged board two from three and I had power to boards one and two.  Now there is hardly any wiring under board three.  (There is more to be done but the pressure of not getting anywhere and my grandchildren growing up meant I did as little as possible to get the layout working.)  So I checked it out and, yes found the problem.  I am sure at the time I had good reason to solder wires together and not use connecting blocks, but for the life of me I cannot remember why.  I would have expected when I wired the last dropper to the plug that takes the power to board four I would have wrapped the connections in tape.  Well, I did not and both sets of wires were touching.  Pulled them apart and wrapped in tape the layout now works.  Slapped wrist!  Luck it was not worse.  I need to write up and make a wiring diagram, and finish off the wiring itself, including making the point motors work.  I am a bit loath to do this as it means taking it down, but maybe next time I have to take it down I will have time to finish the wiring.  (My grandson does not have this problem, he just connects two wires to the track and off it goes!)

 

Shall I talk about bogies?  I make it a rule that I never put two subjects in a text, or email or a posting as one of the subjects always gets lost on the reader.  However, I shall break my rule.

 

So, we were here:-

 

 

One side of the bogie, copied, pasted mirrored, lined up and connected.  Now the same for the springs.

 

 

You will notice that I have added connecting pieces between the axel box and the strapping. This was obvious on the photos, (thank you everybody), but not on the diagram.  You will also notice that I have not made it into one.  That is so I can  copy and paste the set then remove the strapping for the others.  I will of course once I have done that have to join them all up.  I have also removed the individual spring markings as they are not needed at this level.  You will see that they are not on any level but I may change this later.  

 

 

So here is the final layout.  The laminates will go together at first in pairs, so the one with the rivet holes will go behind the spring with the strapping so I can push the rivets out.  The others will be put together in pairs as well then pairs will be put together.  When I did the coach sides they were left under glass for about three days so I will probably do something similar.  At the top are two axel boxes with a connecting strip and then four final axel box covers.  I have put them all together to make sure that they really do fit on both sides, moving them all into position, then using the 'undo move' to put them back where they came from.  This was useful as I had not been as careful as I should have been and so had to move all the rivet holes a fraction.  It all fits now, honest!

 

I hope that is all self explanatory.  Maybe in a coupe of weeks I will get the cutter out.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

 

 

 

[Charlie586]

When I did my dean bogies I realised  (too late) that top hat bearings were too big for the axlebox, I keep meaning to buy waisted bearings to see if they fit.

 

Always good to plan/research  the next four or five layouts in advance.