Traeth Mawr -Building Mr Price's house , (mostly)

[ChrisN]

12 minutes ago, NCB said:

Re figure heights, you have to remember that the Cambrian worked its staff for long hours and little pay, which probably resulted in stunted growth, particularly if they had joined the company at an early age. Railwaymen in general seemed to have had a lean and hungry look, which is why, to me, model figures produced by scanning modern day humans, often of the well fed variety, often don't look quite right.

 

Nigel

 

Nigel,

I must admit I did feel like saying to him, 'Stand up straight lad!'.  His 'father' is quite erect.

 

I would agree with you about scanned figures although a few years ago we would have been grateful for anything.  I also feel that the Victorian and Edwardian railwaymen took more of a pride in their appearance than these scanned figures do.  After all, at that time, a railwayman was a respected member of the community.

 

I have said elsewhere that I mentioned to my wife that a scanning opportunity was coming to an exhibition near us and that they were wanting models in Victorian dress, to which my wife replied, 'I am NOT wearing a corset!'  I had not even mentioned her taking part, but of course any scan of a women before 1915, say, and often after, would have to have them wearing a corset.  I will say no more as the range has many strong points, including a Cambrian station bench which I have yet to put together.

[Charlie586]

1 hour ago, ChrisN said:

 

Charlie,

The light is not wonderful, and is a bit unidirectional unless you have it as far away as you can, and is certainly better than nothing.  I think the lights, 8 of them, are LEDs, and are powered by 3 AA batteries so I will see how long it is before they need changing.

 I got a little rechargeable LED spotlamp from a bargain shop a while ago (similar to this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Book-Reading-Light-Clip-Reader/dp/B07GFGLQSJ/ ) but I find it doesn't really give enough light for my eyesight. And I keep forgetting to charge it as well.

[ChrisN]

3 minutes ago, Charlie586 said:

 I got a little rechargeable LED spotlamp from a bargain shop a while ago (similar to this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Book-Reading-Light-Clip-Reader/dp/B07GFGLQSJ/ ) but I find it doesn't really give enough light for my eyesight. And I keep forgetting to charge it as well.

 

Charlie,

I am not sure how the two compare.  It gives me enough light to work with but when I find it not enough then I go to my magnifier lamp.

[Mikkel]

17 hours ago, ChrisN said:

It was more than a staff meeting.

 

Understatement of the year. What gruesome events at Traeth Mawr! Yet also delicisiouly creative and funny. There's life for you.

 

 You mentioned that Owen looks a bit small next to his dad, but perhaps if you place them at some distance from each other it will be fine? As a teenager, Owen would probably prefer that anyway . The lap board looks useful, especially with the light and cushion, as those have been my main problems when trying out a regular tray.

 

I was saddened to read about Andrew Stadden's loss. Thank you for directing us to his post.

[ChrisN]

3 hours ago, Mikkel said:

 

Understatement of the year. What gruesome events at Traeth Mawr! Yet also delicisiouly creative and funny. There's life for you.

 

 You mentioned that Owen looks a bit small next to his dad, but perhaps if you place them at some distance from each other it will be fine? As a teenager, Owen would probably prefer that anyway . The lap board looks useful, especially with the light and cushion, as those have been my main problems when trying out a regular tray.

 

I was saddened to read about Andrew Stadden's loss. Thank you for directing us to his post.

 

Mikkel,

I will not have Owen next to his Dad on the layout but it is a thought that fifteen year olds and upwards are almost the height of their Dads, (but taller than their mums), but without all the bulk.  (I overthink sometimes.)

 

Teenagers do prefer not to be too close, except when there is money in the conversation, although I did manage to have sensible conversations with all my sons during this period.  Now of course it is different, we are an asset, "Dad, can you look after xxxxxx………………"   

 

I check Andy Stadden's Blog for modelling updates and I was saddened to hear the news.  I did wonder if I should put it on '4mm Edwardian Figures' but in the end felt a showing on here was best.

[corneliuslundie]

An advantage of the scanned/3d-printed figures is that it is easy to produce them to any size. I am sure a chat to Alan Buttler at ModelU on this topic would be possible. Say 3.75 mm/ft for slightly stunted Welsh railwaymen?

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

I have been managing a little modelling, no I have not gone down to N gauge, although NCB's talk of 3mm Cambrian is a little tempting, but why throw away six year's work?  

 

I have been fitting seats to my T49, and have been fitting compartments and seats to the T20, except that this is now a salvage operation as I sat on it.  (Don't ask!)  I think as of this moment it will be fine.

 

So today, as my wife sat and listened to how to run a free statistics software package, (can you hear it?), I went upstairs to look for my Stroudley Brake, as supplied by Linny of this parish.  It of course is on my layout, and sitting there just to annoy me is a Tenshodo spud which I bought but the wheelbase is 10mm too short.  (Measure twice, but once, or in this case, measure, do not go from memory!)

 

The theory is that as my locos will be quite small then a bogie in the tender may work as well.  My worry is that they are tiny and I have no idea of their pulling power, and the old locoman;s phrase of, 'Could not pull a skin off a rice pudding', kept coming to mind.  So, how to make what is basically a bogie with no couplings, pull a load.  No idea.  I have thought about this, on and off, mainly off, since I bought it, sometime last year.

 

Today, I had a brainwave, and after sitting down a while to recover, I tried it.  Would it be able to push a coach?  I took my modified Hornby Cambrian First and tried.  It worked!  I then pushed it all round, including the tight curve at the far end of the station.  The first thing that was quite noticeable was that my dead frogs stopped it, so if it works, I will need to have pick ups on the loco and have wires to the tender.  The good news was it pushed the oach easily.

 

I then started to add coaches.  When pushing three coaches, my modified Hornby, and my two scratch built Cambrian coaches it did it but struggled.  I then put a platform of card on the Spud, and after trying coins as weights, (no they did not really work just fell off randomly, I used the weight out of my Electrotren 2-4-0.    Well, success.  It pushed one modified Hornby coach, two scratch built Cambrian coaches, one Annie, (yes Thomas' coach), all four wheelers, then two Bachmann Emily six wheelers, one Mk1 bogie coach and a Thompson, (?), bogie coach.  I stopped there as this is about a foot or so, (300 mm), longer than any train I might run.

 

Yes, the power was high, and the power pickup varied but it was fairly fast all the way round,  (I kept the power high to try and run past the dead frogs), so as far as I am concerned it was a success.

 

I am not sure I can hide a 28mm bogie under a tender that should have a 38mm one, or if I should just buy another one.  I will need in the end six locos with four wheel tenders.  Now that does not mean six powered tenders, he says after another flash of inspiration, as there are no numbers on the tenders.  Probably two is minimum.

 

I have a 3D print of a 4 wheel tender from Sparkshot Creations, so um, er, I have something to copy.  I also need to change the wheel set to something more appropriate, so maybe the short one will act as one to try this out on.  This opens up the possibility of even more projects started and even less completed, including a scratch built Volunteer class.  Now I know you want pictures, but they will come another day.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[NCB]

Chris

 

Think the problem of getting weight into small locomotives is one of the challenges of modelling the Cambrian! I have Sparkshot's Albion in 3mm, have done a chassis for it, but even though I used one of the small coreless 8 x 16.9 motors from Tramfabriek there's very little room for weight. Here's the chassis:

 

However, just running the chassis as is I was agreeably surprised that it would at least pull itself and a tender; the chassis is compensated which I think helps as all four wheels (all 6 in fact) are firmly on the track. There's room for some weight in the boiler, not a lot, but I think it'll be enough to pull a few things. Here's the loco in it's current state:

 

I need to order a new body as I've broken the steps off this one and also there's some damage to the splashers. Both driver wheelbase and tender wheelbase are about 1mm short on the bodies, my guess being that they need to be due to the thickness of the material; it's a bit cramped in places. My general feeling about the bodies is that they are very good; Sparkshot has taken a lot of care to get them right. Maybe though I still prefer etched stuff, partly for strength, partly for ease of attaching details like handrails; doing the handrails on the tender wasn't easy and they're not quite right.

 

Nigel

 

[ChrisN]

18 minutes ago, NCB said:

Chris

 

Think the problem of getting weight into small locomotives is one of the challenges of modelling the Cambrian! I have Sparkshot's Albion in 3mm, have done a chassis for it, but even though I used one of the small coreless 8 x 16.9 motors from Tramfabriek there's very little room for weight. Here's the chassis:

 

However, just running the chassis as is I was agreeably surprised that it would at least pull itself and a tender; the chassis is compensated which I think helps as all four wheels (all 6 in fact) are firmly on the track. There's room for some weight in the boiler, not a lot, but I think it'll be enough to pull a few things. Here's the loco in it's current state:

 

I need to order a new body as I've broken the steps off this one and also there's some damage to the splashers. Both driver wheelbase and tender wheelbase are about 1mm short on the bodies, my guess being that they need to be due to the thickness of the material; it's a bit cramped in places. My general feeling about the bodies is that they are very good; Sparkshot has taken a lot of care to get them right. Maybe though I still prefer etched stuff, partly for strength, partly for ease of attaching details like handrails; doing the handrails on the tender wasn't easy and they're not quite right.

 

Nigel

 

 

Nigel,

I was surprised how much the Spud actually pushed.  I shall make something and see actually what it can really do.

[Mikkel]

Good to hear things are moving on Traeth Mawr Chris (literally). In my mind's eye I could see you smiling upstairs as the spud pushed coaches around, while your wife was downstairs getting updated on a statitics package. I think you got the better deal there.

 

Do the 28 and 38 mm Tenshodo spuds have different motors, or are they all the same?

 

 

[ChrisN]

4 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Good to hear things are moving on Traeth Mawr Chris (literally). In my mind's eye I could see you smiling upstairs as the spud pushed coaches around, while your wife was downstairs getting updated on a statitics package. I think you got the better deal there.

 

Do the 28 and 38 mm Tenshodo spuds have different motors, or are they all the same?

 

 

 

Mikkel,

To be honest I am not sure if the motors are the same or not.  I am not sure if Tenshodo are still in business, which is a slight problem, but if I can get a 35mm bogie, (not 38 as they do not make one), then that will be something.  I can have several locos and one, two or three tenders to power them.  Any other motor bogies are either not in production and/or very expensive.

 

I spoke to my wife about working on what is supposed to be our day when we do not do anything but relax and she said she wanted to know about the statistic package and that she enjoyed it!  We are talking about the lady who after being at home looking after the children for five years asked if I could get her Chemical Engineering notes out of the loft so that she could do some Second Order Differential Equations to give her something intellectual to do.  I still think you are right though and I had the better deal.

[Nick Holliday]

Re your possible tender drive, might the High Level Longrider be an answer.

http://highlevelkits.co.uk/longriderpage.html

The only problem is that it is slightly too long at 40mm. I don't know if it is possible to reduce that figure in the build, someone may have managed it. 

[ChrisN]

13 minutes ago, Nick Holliday said:

Re your possible tender drive, might the High Level Longrider be an answer.

http://highlevelkits.co.uk/longriderpage.html

The only problem is that it is slightly too long at 40mm. I don't know if it is possible to reduce that figure in the build, someone may have managed it. 

 

Nick,

Thank you.  It is a possibility.  My tender has a wheelbase of 38mm, the Tenshodo has one of 35mm so 40mm is 1mm closer.  They are at Expo EM so I shall go and talk to them.

[Penrhos1920]

2 hours ago, ChrisN said:

We are talking about the lady who after being at home looking after the children for five years asked if I could get her Chemical Engineering notes out of the loft so that she could do some Second Order Differential Equations to give her something intellectual to do.  I still think you are right though and I had the better deal.

It 32 years since I touched Second Order Differential Equations and I’m still a Chemical Engineer.  I never understood why we were taught them.  Yes we need to know that there are mathematical techniques that can solve the complex problems, but we now have clever maths packages that do the solutions.  What really needs to be taught is the engineering nous to know when the maths gives a wrong answer.

[ChrisN]

39 minutes ago, Penrhos1920 said:

It 32 years since I touched Second Order Differential Equations and I’m still a Chemical Engineer.  I never understood why we were taught them.  Yes we need to know that there are mathematical techniques that can solve the complex problems, but we now have clever maths packages that do the solutions.  What really needs to be taught is the engineering nous to know when the maths gives a wrong answer.

 

I am not sure you can teach that, I think it comes with experience.

[Edwardian]

2 hours ago, Nick Holliday said:

Re your possible tender drive, might the High Level Longrider be an answer.

http://highlevelkits.co.uk/longriderpage.html

The only problem is that it is slightly too long at 40mm. I don't know if it is possible to reduce that figure in the build, someone may have managed it. 

 

Knuckles specifies the wheels, coupling rods, bushes, gears, motor mount and motor required to motorise both the Small Passenger 2-4-0 and the Small Goods 0-6-0.

 

I am wondering why motorising the loco bodies as intended by the designer would be significantly more of a challenge than creating a satisfactory rolling chassis for the locomotive and motorising the tender?

 

The boilers are cut out to receive a motor, with room in the boiler forward of that to add weight. I would have thought that a motorised loco with pick-ups to all 6 wheels and the judicious application of weight would likely provide the better solution. 

 

Knuckles had specified a Mashima motor, so a suitable alternative might necessitate some changes.  Next time I'm at the High Level stand I was planning to talk it through.    

[MikeOxon]

1 hour ago, Penrhos1920 said:

...............................we now have clever maths packages that do the solutions.  What really needs to be taught is the engineering nous to know when the maths gives a wrong answer.

 

I recall reading, quite a while ago, that someone rigorously tested several major statistical-analysis computer programs, as widely used by PhD students, and found errors in all of them. 

 

Knowing when computers are wrong remains an important skill!

[ChrisN]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

 

Knuckles specifies the wheels, coupling rods, bushes, gears, motor mount and motor required to motorise both the Small Passenger 2-4-0 and the Small Goods 0-6-0.

 

I am wondering why motorising the loco bodies as intended by the designer would be significantly more of a challenge than creating a satisfactory rolling chassis for the locomotive and motorising the tender?

 

The boilers are cut out to receive a motor, with room in the boiler forward of that to add weight. I would have thought that a motorised loco with pick-ups to all 6 wheels and the judicious application of weight would likely provide the better solution. 

 

Knuckles had specified a Mashima motor, so a suitable alternative might necessitate some changes.  Next time I'm at the High Level stand I was planning to talk it through.    

 

As discussed it just seemed easier to use something already working, but I will take a two pronged approach and work towards a motorised tender and a motorised loco.  If neither works then the GWR and LNWR will have to supply motive power as is in their Running Rights Agreement.

[ChrisN]

47 minutes ago, MikeOxon said:

 

I recall reading, quite a while ago, that someone rigorously tested several major statistical-analysis computer programs, as widely used by PhD students, and found errors in all of them. 

 

Knowing when computers are wrong remains an important skill!

 

Mike,

What is, 1) the probability that any particular package will produce the wrong results?

 

  and      2) that any particular PhD student will notice?

[MikeOxon]

1 hour ago, ChrisN said:

 

Mike,

What is, 1) the probability that any particular package will produce the wrong results?

 

  and      2) that any particular PhD student will notice?

1) extremely low

2) negligible

[Edwardian]

4 hours ago, ChrisN said:

 

As discussed it just seemed easier to use something already working, but I will take a two pronged approach and work towards a motorised tender and a motorised loco.  If neither works then the GWR and LNWR will have to supply motive power as is in their Running Rights Agreement.

 

Well, when I get started on the motorised loco option, I'll post on CA so you can have the benefit of my mistakes! 

[corneliuslundie]

"If neither works then the GWR and LNWR will have to supply motive power as is in their Running Rights Agreement."

Where is the "Horrified" emoticon?

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

5 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

"If neither works then the GWR and LNWR will have to supply motive power as is in their Running Rights Agreement."

Where is the "Horrified" emoticon?

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

It is an interesting fact that when I started the layout the thought of having any working Cambrian Locos was something that I never believed could happen, so the GWR and LNWR would have had to run everything.  Now, apart from a late afternoon train to add a bit of extra interest both companies should be kept at bay.  However, making the 3D prints into working models has not happened yet but at least now it is a distinct possibility.

[ChrisN]

Time for an update.  I do want to thank everyone for comments and likes, etc.  It is most encouraging.

 

Work has been progressing slowly, very slowly but first, I bought a 35mm wheelbase Tenshodo with 12mm wheels and it runs better than the smaller version with smaller wheels but then I have tried to take the smaller one apart to replace the wheels.  It also pushes the same number of coaches.  However, Edwardian sent me a PM suggesting that it was not that difficult to power the loco and why do we not do it at the same time to aid each other.  I agreed to this but nothing much will happen at least until the end of April/May time.  It would be exciting to actually have a Cambrian loco running.

 

I was talking to my youngest son on Sunday and I said that I had wondered about working on my point motor control.  (All the wires are in place, I think, I just need to wire up the point switches.)  He said that I ought to finish at least one project to give me a sense of having achieved something.  He is himself a modeller of no mean achievement himself, even if it is Warhammer.(He told me he has 17 Grey Knights, five inherited/bought from his brother, and the rest made himself.  'It took me six months,' he said. This is while having a wife and a two year old daughter and moving house.)  I replied that you needed more than one thing going at a time as while you waited for the glue to dry on one you could continue with another one.

 

So what have I been doing?  The loco?  No, I am waiting for spraying weather as I cannot spray inside.  Remember the T49?

 

 

It must have been sprayed since I last posted about this and I have got the seats in place.  It needs another spray.  Also the footboards and the brake gear underneath but I might wait until it is mostly painted as it seems to get damaged.  You will notice that it has a brass rod in place of the Ration plastic one, and that it has no wheels.  The wheels are deliberate as I am worried it will keep running away.  This is now waiting for the paint shop along with I am not sure how many other things.

 

At present I am modelling sitting next to my wife in our lounge so painting will have to wait for warmer days when we sit in the extension and I will sit at table.

 

T20?  Have I mentioned that?

 

 

I cannot remember if I showed this before.  I got it to the stage where I had all four sides attached to the floor, and each other of course, and the vacuum cylinder and chassis attached and all sprayed.  Then a few weeks ago I sat on it.  (No, do not ask.)   I have managed to straighten it out, but a side has fallen off, but this is not a problem.

 

You notice that I make my own floors and have realised that if you use brass ends then you need to make them slightly longer than the floors supplied in the kit.  What I did not think through is that they need to be slightly wider as well, so the T49 has a gap between the sides and the floor which I think I shall have to fill.  My wife is not impressed and says a whole like that will worry the passengers.  So, with al the side straightening and messing about I have made a new 10 thou floor to go over the original one.  This is the correct width.  I have also cut and shaped the seats and compartment dividers.

 

 

You may be able to see various notches in the dividers.  This is to take into account the bits of brass that stick out.  I have also shaped the seats to the tumblehome.  It is actually easier to do it with one side missing.  There was no such problem with the T49.  You may also notice that the seats are slightly narrower than the compartment sides.  The plan is to have the seats hold the glazing in place.  I am not really convinced it will work but I will try.

 

I have also been working on a Stroudley Break Third, but I will put that in the next update.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[ChrisN]

The trouble with updates is that you wait ages for one and then two come along at once. 

 

 

This is not the Stroudley Brake Coach, aand no it is not an engine in improved green.  This is the 645 with primer filler.  The cap was yellow, so I thought, 'oh, it is to show it is primer/filler not just primer.'  Should have known really, not that it matters.  It has had, I think, two previous coats and has been rubbed down. 

 

I said I was waiting for a day when I could spray again before I showed it.  Well, yesterday it snowed, so it seemed the perfect day.  You may wonder about it but as my wife says, often with a grin, "Well, I  think it is a good idea."  The snow passed and the sun came out in the afternoon.  It was quite warm at the front of the house so I wondered if the front garden was warm enough for spraying as it tends to be a suntrap.  It was, so I did. 

 

It looks to me about ready on the tank.  (Say if you think not.)  It needs the tank plates filling before it is sprayed with grey primer.

 

 

The front still looks a little rough.  The smokebox door has rings which are difficult to file down so when I next get my filler out I shall smear it on.  There is still a bit of general roughness from the printing which I need to work on.

 

If you have missed why I am doing a 645 and a rake of GWR coaches it is for the last train of the day.  It runs directly from Ruabon with two through coaches, so to make a change I decided that rather than stopping at Dolgelley it would continue.  I doubt it ever happened in 1895 but I wanted to be sure I had a loco powerful enough to cope with it.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.