Traeth Mawr -Building Mr Price's house , (mostly)

[ChrisN]

28 minutes ago, richbrummitt said:

 

Useful photo. I believe,  as you did originally, that that is the reverser.

 

Thanks.  I shall have to find a reverser that looks like that.  I must admit it appears to resemble a signal lever.  I am not sure the Markits one is a close resemblance.

[Mikkel]

21 hours ago, ChrisN said:

It would be nice to spray or paint it first but then I shall be waiting probably until we are finally released back into the wild.  Do you paint the brass or use a metal blackener?

 

In my case paint or a good marker. I would prefer metal blackener but ordering such things by mail is difficult, and I don't know the Danish word for it 

 

Recently I saw it mentioned on here that ground pencil lead looks good when rubbed on to painted handrails. 

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Mikkel

[Compound2632]

On 27/03/2020 at 20:59, ChrisN said:

I have threatened to report some modelling so here it is, but one final word on Smoking Compartments.  As I was searching again for Hamilton Ellis' painting of a one I came across another picture and the caption pointed out that there was a ventilation grille in the ceiling.  Now I remember from somewhere, (* citation needed), that smoking compartments had these ventilations and they went out through the roof.  Now as I have no evidence of them in four wheel coaches I will not pursue this any further.

 

There ought to be corresponding roof furniture - at this date most likely a torpedo ventilator. Is there any evidence for such things on the roofs of these carriages, either above all compartments or just above smoking compartments? This was by no means universal - 19th century Midland carriages didn't have them, for example.

[ChrisN]

5 hours ago, Mikkel said:

 

In my case paint or a good marker. I would prefer metal blackener but ordering such things by mail is difficult, and I don't know the Danish word for it 

 

Recently I saw it mentioned on here that ground pencil lead looks good when rubbed on to painted handrails. 

 

 

Mikkel,

Thank you.  I have been trying to order things from as few suppliers as possible to save on postage and the ones I have looked at do not sell blackener.  I will have to try your method.  I assume that afterwards it is sealed with varnish.

 

You could always try ordering blackener in English; I believe that the Danes understand English better than the English understand Danish.  (Northroader excepted!)  

[ChrisN]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

There ought to be corresponding roof furniture - at this date most likely a torpedo ventilator. Is there any evidence for such things on the roofs of these carriages, either above all compartments or just above smoking compartments? This was by no means universal - 19th century Midland carriages didn't have them, for example.

 

I believe that there is on diagrams where there are smoking compartments.  I have not seen them on four wheeled stock, but that is because I have not looked for them!  I shall now have to trawl through images of four wheel stock and see what I can find, if anything.

[Simond]

Google suggests,” opløsning af metal “

 

it’s suggestion for the French translation (which I do understand) was plausible, but I can’t comment on the Danish!  It could be as reliable as the English-Hungarian phrasebook produced by Alexander Yalt.

 

Simon

[Mikkel]

Thanks Simon, in this case Google would get me into trouble, since "opløsning af metal" means something that dissolves metal! .

 

I'm just being lazy of course, next time I'm at the DIY store I'll ask the friendly staff (though not the gum-chewing dis-interested one who keeps turning the barcode-scanner the wrong way round, wondering why it isn't working). 

 

 

[Simond]

There is always one...  it’s why we have to have safety warnings such as “Warning, contains nuts” on a packet of nuts, and “Warning, contains flammable gas under pressure” on a cigarette lighter.  
 

you can usually spot them by the grazed knuckles.

 

Keep well!

Simon

[ChrisN]

This is a double update.  I decided to save time I would photograph two things side by side, but then realised I would need to cut and paste so why not just show them together.  If you have ever had a conversation on MSN where you talk about two subjects at once this will be no problem, if you have spoken to two people at once on more than two subjects this will be a doddle.  

 

 

 

On the left is the 645.  I have attacked it with Milliput and tried to fill the grooves I missed earlier.  I also gave two Preiser ladies who are going to be servants in the houses I will build eventually, skirts of the appropriate length.  I pushed it in with a knife and then using my fingers damped with water I smeared the excess off.  I assumed it would be very difficult to sand as it dries very hard.  I thought it looked good.

 

On the right is what appears to be a wagon.  It is.  Now you may ask, 1) why a wagon when the thread sub title is building coaches, and 2) why start something else when you cannot even finish all the rest?  The answer to two is that this is finishable in the short term, and I actually started it so long ago it was before I changed the thread title.  It is a Chatham Kits wagon, now sold by Chris Cox of 5and9.  (Well, actually the web site says it is unavailable but I think several of the same kits are sold with different PO transfers.)  I bought this, I think, from a stand at ExpoEM in 2016 so it has no transfers.  It is a whitemetal kit with a brass floor that I have put together with superglue.  It will be for Robert Parry, the coal merchant.  It has been sitting in a box half built for years.  I would take it to work with me to make in the evening when I was away.  It never got ade and in the end I left it at home.  I forgot to take pictures as it was being built.  The difficult bit was filing back the brake shoes so they did not foul the wheels, and putting a rod of brass between the V hanger and the brake gear.

 

 

 

So I wrapped the wagon in masking tape and sprayed it with primer so only the underside and inside was grey.  I removed the wheels and cut little squares of masking tape to cover the inside of the bearing.  I was a bit worried that if I put the springs on both sides I would not be able to remove the wheels, so the other side have not been attached yet.

 

The loco was sprayed with filler/primer to try and fill any holes.  You may notice that there is still a groove where the tank divisions were.  

 

 

It is clearer on this one.  So I got some old Humbrol filler and filled every little hole I could find, then sanded it down when dry.

 

 

So you can see it has been sanded and the funnel etc fitted, but not glued in place.

 

You can see the wagon has been sprayed Red Oxide Primer.  I taped around the bottom to try and keep it grey.  It sort of worked.  You will notice the masking tape over the bearings.  

 

I Googled Indian Red which I thought was the colour of GWR buffer beams in the 19th century, and it came back that it was Red Oxide.  Is the colour of the wagon the same as the one I should put on the buffer beams.

 

 

This is a bit overexposed and shows up where I need to sand the primer as I was a bit over enthusiastic in places.  What it also does is shows the relative sizes of the parts.  I am happy with the height of the chimney, but I do not think the dome is fat enough, as compared to here.  I am not sure what to do.  I have not seen other domes, and it will not eat the cream cakes I have offered it.  I shall continue to look out for fatter ones.  The chimney needs seating properly, in fact the dome and the valves do as well. 

 

The whistles and buffers are on order, and the rivets and Microsol arrived today.  (Well, Saturday really but they have been in quarantine.)

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[Mikkel]

Great progress Chris, on three fronts if you include the Preiser women. 

 

In the last photos it looks like you've managed to completely do away with the tank divisions, no mean feat.  I recognize the challenge of cleaning up smokebox doors once fitted, there is something about the shape that stubbornly refuses proper sanding.

 

Nice wagon, I never could resist a wagon with dumb buffers (no inuendo intended!).

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by Mikkel
Spelling

[MikeOxon]

your '645' is looking good.  Although Indian Red was used for the frame colour before 1906, you need to look to China for buffer beams.  From the earliest days of the GWR, buffer beams were China Red (aka Vermilion), a much brighter shade.

[corneliuslundie]

Yes, those 5and9 kits are nice. I have a couple, made up and lettered.

And the loco is looking good as well.

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

7 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Great progress Chris, on three fronts if you include the Preiser women. 

 

In the last photos it looks like you've managed to completely do away with the tank divisions, no mean feat.  I recognize the challenge of cleaning up smokebox doors once fitted, there is something about the shape that stubbornly refuses proper sanding.

 

Nice wagon, I never could resist a wagon with dumb buffers (no inuendo intended!).

 

 

Mikkel,

Thank you.  It took a bit of work but unless you look under the tank all the divisions have gone.  What I noticed last night is that the smokebox door darts are about half the length they should be.  Now not that I have really looked, but I have not seen any of the right length.  They will need to be brass as plastic would just break so trying to extend these would not work.

 

As for the wagon, there are others on the 5and9 website although you normally have to email Chris to see what is available.  He takes PayPal and the service is very quick, well it was just before the lockdown when I bought some buffers and oil lamp tops.

[ChrisN]

3 hours ago, MikeOxon said:

your '645' is looking good.  Although Indian Red was used for the frame colour before 1906, you need to look to China for buffer beams.  From the earliest days of the GWR, buffer beams were China Red (aka Vermilion), a much brighter shade.

 

Mike,

Thank you.  I shall have to see if I can spray what there is of the frame on the print, if not I will have to see what brush paint I have.  As for vermillion, I have some!  It is the colour that the ends of Brakes were painted on the Cambrian so I have some in stock.

 

Following on from your blog on the colour of Wolverhampton green and how First Great Western claim their new colour is the same, I used a colour converter site to see if there was any commercial paint that was similar.  RAL Designer has a colour called Swedish Green, which is close but noticeably different.  There is no paint that is similar, well near but not that similar.  There is no modelling paint that comes close.

 

I checked the Precision Paints site and it has a Privatisation Great Western green but when you open it it states that it is the colour used before First took over.  Looks as though I will need to mix it myself.

[ChrisN]

2 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

Yes, those 5and9 kits are nice. I have a couple, made up and lettered.

And the loco is looking good as well.

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

Thank you.  As I did not buy it from 5and9 it has no transfers so I will need to source those from somewhere.

[Compound2632]

My "Parry" wagon - which is yet to gain brakes, a floor, and an identity - came from Roxey Mouldings, where it is listed as an ex-Chatham kit. I've also built some of Chris Cox's 5 and 9 Models wagon kits - Brighton Open A and D; he lists them as ex-Woodham Wagon Works. From the instructions, it's clear these have a common origin that @burgundy of this parish could enlarge upon.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Compound2632

[burgundy]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

My "Parry" wagon - which is yet to gain brakes, a floor, and an identity - came from Roxey Mouldings, where it is listed as an ex-Chatham kit. I've also built some of Chris Cox's 5 and 9 Models wagon kits - Brighton Open A and D; he lists them as ex-Woodham Wagon Works. From the instructions, it's clear these have a common origin that @burgundy of this parish could enlarge upon.

I am not sure what enlargement you were after. "Parry" and "Stephenson Clarke" were both originally my patterns and sold through WWW. Since they were cast by a third party in Surrey, I handed them off to Dave H when I moved out of the area. Lettering for both should be available from POWSides.

Other WWW products followed on, but using my own Tiranti casting machine. The moulds are long past their sell by date but I handed on many of the original patterns to Chris C, so that they are available again through 5&9 as he is able to restore the patterns and make new moulds.

I hope that this helps.

Best wishes

Eric     

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, burgundy said:

I am not sure what enlargement you were after.

 

Eric, I was merely wanting to ensure that credit for them made its way to you. But the explanation as to how some ended up with Roxey and some with 5&9 is worth knowing, for those who care about such things. 

Edited April 16, 2020 by Compound2632

[ChrisN]

Questions, questions, questions, or rather question, question.  (I had three but have already answered one myself.)

 

1) I of course sprayed the dome and the safety valve in grey primer as I thought they were all painted.  Having looked again, of course they are polished brass.  Now which is better, brass painted brass, or brass left as brass.  I half remember Mikkel did something like this but I cannot remember the outcome.  My feeling is that I would need to keep polishing the brass if I did not paint it.

 

2)  POW sides do transfers for Parry of London, but I just need transfers for Robert Parry, Traeth Mawr..  Any suggestions?

 

Thank you in advance

[Mikkel]

Hi Chris, in my opinion 'brass left as brass' is by far the best. I polish the brass with varying grades of wet and dry, ending up with 1000 or finer. I don't personally varnish the brass as I would rather polish it up again when needed, but I have a feeling that's not standard practice. The fittings that I polished here (2015) have not yet had to be re-polished. But that may depend on the environment.

 

Are the safety valve and dome stuck in place? If not you could consider stripping off the primer. Alternatively there is the painting option of course. As I think many on here would agree, don't use paint labelled 'brass' for brass, try 'gold' or 'old gold' instead. 

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Mikkel
To clarify

[Northroader]

I think if you use a metallic paint on its own, you can get quite a granular look. Try a mix of oil paint looking like brass, yellow/ orange/ rust/ white, say, and mix this 50/ 50 with the metallic brass paint. You’ll get something a bit smoother and hard wearing. Ditto for the copper chimney cap.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Northroader

[burgundy]

12 hours ago, ChrisN said:

1) I of course sprayed the dome and the safety valve in grey primer as I thought they were all painted.  Having looked again, of course they are polished brass.  Now which is better, brass painted brass, or brass left as brass.  I half remember Mikkel did something like this but I cannot remember the outcome.  My feeling is that I would need to keep polishing the brass if I did not paint it.

Thank you in advance

I would go along with polishing up real brass.

The best paint that I have found is the Games Worksop range which does Runelord brass (or Dwarf Bronze for copper). However, I can never get the smoothness of real metal.

If the effect of highly polished real brass is a bit too vivid, give it a quick wash of metal black to tone it down.

Best wishes

Eric    

[MikeTrice]

I would second the comment on Games Workshop metallics. There have recently been some interesting videos on the 3D Printing sites of using Rub 'n Buff to metalise resin printed items to good effect.

[ChrisN]

Mikkel,

Thank you.  I seemed to remember that you kept your dome as brass.  I will see if I get any more answers but it is encouraging that you did this five years ago, (FIVE years!), and it is still alright.  I have not stuck them on yet and I had thought of just sanding the paint of.  Even though it is primer it does not stick very well when handled so if I show ome wet and dry it will probably run away.

 

I still think that my dome is not 'fat' enough.  The pictures make it look more spherical.  However, I did buy the dome for the 850 and on the pictures the domes appear the same as the 645 domes.

 

Just to add to the fun 772 which is the loco that I am modelling appears on GWR.org in its original condition.  The image I saw had it with a long tank so I am assuming it was rebuilt before 1895.

[MikeOxon]

5 hours ago, Mikkel said:

... The fittings that I polished here (2015) have not yet had to be re-polished.....

 

Now you know, Mikkel, that my comment on your original post was driven purely by jealousy