Traeth Mawr -Building Mr Price's house , (mostly)

[ChrisN]

3 hours ago, drduncan said:

Hi Chris,

 

I was reading a thread on the BGS members forum which suggested that the Slaters C10 and E37 could be used to make a C3b and E25 is you could live with the wrong clerestory profile.  It struck me that you could draw and cut new ends on the silhouette and make a more accurate model but without the faff of drawing up sides- assuming you can get hold of the slaters sides as spares from coopercraft - which is a minefield I admit...

Duncan

Duncan,

Thak you.  I do have an E37 but I shall probably keep it for that.  I am not going anywhere near Coopercraft as, let us just say I have had my fingers burnt.  Also I have already drawn most of the E25 side and am onto the ends.  I have some questions but first I must remember to look in Russells as they may have the answer I need.

[ChrisN]

56 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

Just a heads up. I recently acquired a kit from Taff Vale Models for a six ton Cambrian van. It can be built with several undergear variants and had a resin cast body. The instructions are very goo, though I have not assembled it yet. And excellent service form the company. 

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

Yes I had seen that elsewhere that you had bought those.  Are the Taff Vale models the same ones that used to be sold by Dragon Models or are they new?

[corneliuslundie]

They took over the Dragon Models range and it looks from the price list as if it may have come from that source, though I was under the impression that the Dragon range was mostly etched brass.

What may also interest you - and others - is the announcement of a future Albion class loco kit.

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

9 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

They took over the Dragon Models range and it looks from the price list as if it may have come from that source, though I was under the impression that the Dragon range was mostly etched brass.

What may also interest you - and others - is the announcement of a future Albion class loco kit.

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

I think that is the kit that I have and already built, (three of them).  I may have started to put them on my thread and then it all got lost in the plot.

[ChrisN]

I shall try and post even though RMWeb appears to be having problems.  I always think computers are our servants and not our masters so it will jolly well have to get on with it.

 

I feel honoured that I appear to have attrached more followers to my thread even though I am posting hardly anything.  Thank you for your interest.

 

I have been making some progress with the E25 and I will post that soon but first a question that looking at pictures I think I have the answer but I am not sure. 

 

 

Where the doors are there appears to be the edges of beading.  On this drawing it appears that there is a portion of beading on the side and a portion on the door.  Looking at pictures it appears to be just on the door.   How I do the beading will be the same but it will be in a slightly different place.

 

I know I should have taken more notice the last time I went to Didcot.

 

If the have been, thanks for looking.

[Mikkel]

Not sure I understand, Chris. Do you mean the outline of the door itself? Had a look through Russell's coaches but it's difficult to see as there are very few close-ups. If your photos show it, that's what to go with then, I imagine?

 

That's the nice thing about scratchbuilding, you discover things you'd never thought about.

[ChrisN]

4 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Not sure I understand, Chris. Do you mean the outline of the door itself? Had a look through Russell's coaches but it's difficult to see as there are very few close-ups. If your photos show it, that's what to go with then, I imagine?

 

That's the nice thing about scratchbuilding, you discover things you'd never thought about.

 

To try and explain a simple diagram

 

 

The black is the beading and the yellow is the edge of the door.  I think I will assume it is the second unless told otherwise.

[Nick Gough]

Do these help at all?

[ChrisN]

Nick,

Thank you.  Yes it does appear that the raised beading sits either side of the door.  It might be my imagination, or my eyes but I think I can see the line down the middle of the beading.  Also the beding stops at the hinge and appears to butt up to it.  If I score the door then where the panel is not I will put 10 though plastic rod.  This will be overscale but is the smallest I can do.

[Donw]

Dragon models did produce a Cambrian van with a resin body in 0 gauge so I assume a 4mm one came later.

 

I have been rather busy and have not fully caught up with the changes so have been missing your posts good to see what you are doing.

Don

[NCB]

Hi Chris, not sure what you're talking about here. By beading do you mean the raised mouldings on the panelling? This occurs on both door and adjacent side, with the yop half of the door. Don't know if these two Didcot pics taken a while ago help:

https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5772846

https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5772837

 

Nigel

[Donw]

Chris the beading is both sides of the door and obviously not rounded at the join the positon of the hinge in the beading will confirm this. The other raised bit round the window is calle the Bollection I think and painted differently. Note how the bottom hingse sticks out more.

 

Don

[ChrisN]

On 17/03/2019 at 17:38, NCB said:

Hi Chris, not sure what you're talking about here. By beading do you mean the raised mouldings on the panelling? This occurs on both door and adjacent side, with the yop half of the door. Don't know if these two Didcot pics taken a while ago help:

https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5772846

https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5772837

 

Nigel

 

On 17/03/2019 at 18:07, Donw said:

Chris the beading is both sides of the door and obviously not rounded at the join the positon of the hinge in the beading will confirm this. The other raised bit round the window is calle the Bollection I think and painted differently. Note how the bottom hingse sticks out more.

 

Don

 

Thank you both.  All this is very helpful, especially the pictures.  I will probably be able to do the moulding/beading around the door but not the bollectlon.  I shall have to see if I can make it flat at the top.

[NCB]

Teddy Francis, of Dart Castings, who has died recently, wrote a series of pioneering articles in Model Railway Constructor on constructing GWR coaches. This included making bollections. This could be a useful read, and not just for the bollections. He was also behind the Shire Scenes coach sides.

 

Nigel

[Mikkel]

On 16/03/2019 at 00:23, ChrisN said:

Nick,

Thank you.  Yes it does appear that the raised beading sits either side of the door.  It might be my imagination, or my eyes but I think I can see the line down the middle of the beading.  Also the beding stops at the hinge and appears to butt up to it.  If I score the door then where the panel is not I will put 10 though plastic rod.  This will be overscale but is the smallest I can do.

 

I suppose there's a risk that the overscale rod would change the overall "appearance" of the sides. Maybe worth a "dry run" to see how it looks?

 

In any case, thank you for identifying this issue and experimenting with it, Chris, very useful. 

[Nick Gough]

13 hours ago, NCB said:

Teddy Francis, of Dart Castings, who has died recently, wrote a series of pioneering articles in Model Railway Constructor on constructing GWR coaches. This included making bollections. This could be a useful read, and not just for the bollections. He was also behind the Shire Scenes coach sides.

 

Nigel

He also wrote a series for Railway Modeller in the 1970s.

 

Chris, I have sent you a message.

[ChrisN]

Thank you all.  The difference that I have to Teddy Francis is that he culd have two different thicknesses of platicard, whereas I can have only 10 thou as that is what the cutter cuts.  I will have a panel layer, then the side with windows then the droplight layer.  Now I need four layers plus the glazing layer.  Now previously, the window size in the panelling layer was the same as in the first side so the windows were 40 thou and the door window 20 thou with 20 thou drop lights.  Now on this one the windows appear to be going down in size in stages when looking at the pictures, but looking at the drawing now it could be that they have drawn in the bollectlon.  I shall have to have another look at it. 

 

Ok, have just had a look at it, well why waste time, and it does appear that the bollection is drawn on.  It is more comfusing as there appears from the photographs earlier that there is no bollection around the doors but there is a cut out in the panel larger than the window.  This has been confusing me, which is not difficult.  I was not going to show the sides until I had done the ends but perhaps I will post about them next so we can see how it works ut.

 

As for the beading around the doors, I measured the width on the diagram and it comes out to 0.43mm which may be fine, but I doubt I could score up the middle.
 

 

[ChrisN]

Thank you again for pictures, ratings and advice.  I have been on RMWeb this week but I am catching up slowly as I was away working for a couple of weeks.  Life does not seem to slow down but perhaps by the end of the year.......  My wife says that when I finally retire I must have a day modelling.  Who am I to disagree with mu wife?  So, on with the show.

 

I normally do all the drawing up on the drawing before removing it and creating a second file, but this time as bollections have been raised, and other mouldings I will explain te side first, then go onto the ends.  So it looks like this:-

 

 

 

So now I cut the background drawing so what you have is this:-

 

 

This I then save as another file, which I have called E25 Stage 2.  (My originality knows no bounds.)  The other file E25 Start I then close without saving so it still has the origianl diagram and overlaid lines. 

 

You will notice that the doors are drawn in but at the ends I have two lines.  This is how the drawing shows the beading.  However like all good drawings the width varies along the coach so how wide should they be?  I am sure by mistake I have had lines that are closer together than 0.5mm but you can never be sure they will cut and not to too close so I decided that these two should be 0.5mm apart.  (There are other good reasons for this which are fortuious which I will mention later.)  So how should I make certain that everyone is 0.5mm apart?

 

I selected both together, copied, opened  E25 parts and pasted.  I then had a horizontal line to but them against, and drew a line of 0.5mm and brought them rogether.

 

 

I then selected the two verticals, grouped them and copied them to the stage 2 file.  I still had the bottom of the doors though.

 

 

The door is a drawn rectangle.  I erased two sections at nearly the same height so I could delete the bottom section.

 

 

 

 

I could then select the top half and size it to the correct length.  Much easier than trying to erase it to the right length.  (Now how would I know that?)

 

Then I copied and pasted the double line so that the door line was in the middle of them.  (Sorry no picture.)  It then occured to me that if I was to cut these then I would need to erase the line at the top between the two verticals.  I then thought that cutting it out of the panelling layer may not be convincing so what I am thinking at the moment is that these verticals will be scoured and I will put a double row of 10 thou rods, which will have a curve on them but I can flatten the top with a little filing.

 

One final picture

 

 

You might think this is a mess, and so it is.  How I deal with that is my next post.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

 

[Mikkel]

This is so inspiring Chris. Fingers itching to do something similar. I find it strangely therapeutic to draw up stuff like this. Maybe it's the symmetry of it, a brief escape from a chaotic world.

 

 

[ChrisN]

14 hours ago, Mikkel said:

This is so inspiring Chris. Fingers itching to do something similar. I find it strangely therapeutic to draw up stuff like this. Maybe it's the symmetry of it, a brief escape from a chaotic world.

 

 

 

Mikkel,

Thank you.  You can always cheat if you want.  I will happily send you anything I have drawn, although this may be a little big for Farthing.

[ChrisN]

Why model when you can post on RMWeb.

 

So I left last time with a mess on the drawing.

 

 

You can see the mess, but also I have extended the measuring lines at the top and the side to be larger than the coach.  I then also removed all the bollection lines from around the window.  I cut them and pasted them on E25 Parts as I will want them later.  I was kindly sent a photocopy of the Railway Modeller article by Teddt Francis on building GWR coaches,  Now he did the same as I am going to do but used nothing more than a scaple, file, ruler etc. and did it by hand.  I will of course chaet and use the cutter.  Any old way, as my Nan used to say, he cut out from 10 thou plasticard a piece that covered the window to the width of the bollection, glued it in place, waited it to dry hard, then cut it out from the inside, leaving the bollection behind.  Sounds like a good game played slowly, but certainly worth trying.

 

 

 

Here I have taken my long line and put it under the panel of the window on the first door.  This will be my position that everything else will be set to.  I then moved all the parts of the window, i.e., the panel, window and droplight so that they all were equidistant from each other.  I then selected all three and grouped them.  I have not done this in the past as they will need to be ungrouped eventually as they will be on three different layers, but at the moment it helps.  Firstly I can then move them so that they are in the centre of the door, and secondly I can copy and paste and use them for the other doors.  'Why,' you will ask, 'did you not do that earlier so the first time you pasted all the door windows they would have been correct?'  Well, one I never thought of it then, and two it would have been more difficult on top of the drawing.  Maybe I should just do one window, then the doors then the panelling.  I do not want to do too little as I need to make sure I have all the bits in the right place.

 

 

Now I have done the same with the compartment windows, but how should they be spaced between the doors?  I have copied and pasted my horizontal line and placed it under the panel at the op of the door.  (You may ask why am I doing all this when I have drawn over a drawing.  Well, the drawings are wonderful but were drawn by humans onto a material that stretches and warps.)

 

 

 

Here I have brought my Vertical line to the top panel which I have centered on the door, and have made sure the window lines up.  I then doule checked the width of the panel.

 

 

Moving onto the panel above the windows, I have centered itand brought my vertical to one end.  (All centering is done by eye, one long sighted one and one dodgy one what makes straight lines curvey.)

 

 

Here I have lined up one side, moved the vertical to the other, lined up that window then centered the panel.  I thought I had taken the screen shot to show that the lower horizontal is still there.  All I have to do now is repeat this for all the other windows, panels and doors.

 

Comments, thoughts etc., welcomed.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[K14]

On 15/03/2019 at 10:22, ChrisN said:

 

To try and explain a simple diagram

 

 

The black is the beading and the yellow is the edge of the door.  I think I will assume it is the second unless told otherwise.

 

It's 'otherwise'...

 

The "beading" is an extruded brass weatherstrip that's screwed to the door on either side:—

 

 

On the lock side its a single length, but on the hinge side it's two pieces, one either side of the bottom hinge.

 

Full size the strip is only around 5/8" wide (maybe 3/4"), so at 4mm/ft it'll need to be implied or risk being seriously overscale.

 

Pete S.

 

[ChrisN]

Pete,

Thank you, that is most helpful.  You will see from the drawing that I have posted that it appears to be much wider than that.  So I shall go back to scoring out the door as a single line.  It would be possible to use 10 thou plastic rod which would give the right width but the layer of panelling is only 10 thou so it would seem too thick.  I will have to think about it.  Umm, perjaps strip some copper wire from my cable- would not be flat enough and the glue to hold it would be larger than the wire.  I shall post this and continue thinking.

[K14]

These may be of interest for later on — the mortal remains of 1339 after the Chelford accident of 1894:—

 

 

http://www.lnwrs.org.uk/Mystery/index.php?display_base_mystery_mobile=203

 

Link to Board of Trade Report: http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/eventsummary.php?eventID=63

 

Pete S.

 

 

 

 

 

[corneliuslundie]

So it is only present on the lower part of the door? That explains why the E25 drawing shows it as below:

 

Jonathan

PS and all the other contemporary GWR carriage drawings i have just looked at.

Edited March 26, 2019 by corneliuslundie