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Traeth Mawr -Building Mr Price's house , (mostly)


ChrisN
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I’ve just done a teak coach, my first attempt at teak, and I’m quite pleased how it’s turned out. Having looked at the plentiful advice on this web, I did a coat of light grey primer, followed by a coat of opaque body colour, in my case an old can of Humbrol, sort of golden brown tan. The next coach will probably get some surplus Phoenix LBSC loco improved “green”, which is similar. Then the fun bit, GWR coach chocolate, thinned right down, but not runny, if that makes sense, which is just lightly streaked and blobbed, generally brush strokes same direction as the panel grain, and little dabs done with a tissue or finger tip, to minimise blotting out. It then got a coat of satin varnish, and even if I say it myself, it does look quite attractive, so I would advise trying for a “new” appearance than an older weather worn finish.

Phoenix do a Mahogany paint for LBSC coaches, a deep reddish brown, obviously without any graining, which I’ve used before now. 

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Sorry, she’s had me on the G word this morning, I’m knackered. Anyway, here’s a “teak” coach, still needing some work, and a “mahogany” coach. The body colour on the teak is Humbrol OLD no.9, scumble  in Phoenix GWR coach brown no.17. The mahogany is Phoenix mahogany no. 988. (Both dull). The van was finished off in Railmatch satin varnish no.408.

1AE4E6DF-CF59-4693-BD5C-4A3C7A40BA0D.jpeg.1ea1dc1139a79ebd3a1890555c90174c.jpeg

Edited by Northroader
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3 hours ago, Northroader said:

I’ve just done a teak coach, my first attempt at teak, and I’m quite pleased how it’s turned out. Having looked at the plentiful advice on this web, I did a coat of light grey primer, followed by a coat of opaque body colour, in my case an old can of Humbrol, sort of golden brown tan. The next coach will probably get some surplus Phoenix LBSC loco improved “green”, which is similar. Then the fun bit, GWR coach chocolate, thinned right down, but not runny, if that makes sense, which is just lightly streaked and blobbed, generally brush strokes same direction as the panel grain, and little dabs done with a tissue or finger tip, to minimise blotting out. It then got a coat of satin varnish, and even if I say it myself, it does look quite attractive, so I would advise trying for a “new” appearance than an older weather worn finish.

Phoenix do a Mahogany paint for LBSC coaches, a deep reddish brown, obviously without any graining, which I’ve used before now. 

 

Thank you.

 

I have reread the specifications for the bodywork of both types of coaches, and it appears that both were mahogany.  The confusion about teak may be because the article I read said that the LB&SCR coaches were built of teak, after having said the finish was firstly varnished, then painted mahogany.  It then states that it was covered in panels, which I assume were mahogany.  I have the Precision Paints Teak, both the top coat and the base coat but it is not clear what base the mahogany needs.

 

I notice these paints contain lead.  If I painted the coach roofs with their white and exposed them to a coal fire smoke what are the chances I would get realistic smoke darkening?  :jester:

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Er, no. Get a black pastel chalk from an art shop, rub it on emery paper to get a fine black powder, then sprinkle it over the roof. Then brush it in, crossways strokes. If you think you’ve overdone it, it will wash off.

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15 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

Under Stroudley LB&SCR livery was definitely mahogany (Southern Style: LB&SCR), but there were for a long time earlier vehicles around still in in teak, green or brown.

Jonathan

 

Yes of course.  As my LB&SCR saloon is very old perhaps I shall do that in Teak, but painted, not necessarily trying to get it to look like grained wood, and my Brake Third and MS&LR Tri-composite in mahogany.  Is that both simple enough and complicated enough?

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Well, I said I would do a proper update, so I suppose I ought to get on with it.  I am making progress with the stone 'infills'.  This is how I do it.

 

 

779162422_Infill1.jpg.1a53c3563af7ad0e552ccc0857d58ab7.jpg

 

I measure the distance between the indentations on both sides, which may not be opposite and mark it off on the back of the stone sheet.  I have already measured the height and drawn a line along the whole side of the sheet.  I then mark off about a millimeter and offer up the relevant piece of 'stonework' for where it is to go.  I have extra pieces from the cutter.  I then mark the sheet with a scalpel to get the correct widths, and then cut away the relevant bits of the sheet.  I have got it right almost every time!

 

 

552404272_Infill2.jpg.fabf502f63d58286aa7280a9744c08ee.jpg

 

It then should look like this.

 

I cut out the rest and do the same on the other side.

 

 

1194381462_Infill3.jpg.760c58125c535e8c8ee6321ac13759cd.jpg

 

When first cut out.

 

 

1866359349_Infill4.jpg.224d759ddb906c7e59401a5cf7f3dda3.jpg

 

Oh look, it fits.

 

 

591334833_Infill5.jpg.123fbe6f9ce7607bf6bb210505a0571f.jpg

 

Oh, no it doesn't!  It then gets attacked with files.  I am not too worried that it is too big as it means I can fill it down to fit.  I seem though to be getting worse at measuring as I seem to have more leeway each time I do one.

 

 

1756469916_Infill6.jpg.42d18ee356658e2ce378fd2c6227b501.jpg

 

Many happy hours later.  (The close ups are cruel.)

 

So to show you how far I have got, I put it all together on the layout.  One side is attached to an end by my magnetic clip as supplied by York Models.  (Not sure who else does them, but they hold things at 90 degrees.)  The sides and ends are then stood next to each other.

 

 

1668458142_InPosition1.jpg.c2651bb6c63630ac22ca37d8b6b2592f.jpg

 

This is the station yard side.  You will notice the dentist's pick held firmly against the wall with a plastic clip, making it look like a flagpole.  Each piece of stonework at the side of the windows is bent round the opening but then needs to be bent back to form a U shape to hold the cardboard.  To do this I take a pointy thing, a scriber probably, and hold the dentist's pick behind the plasticard that needs to be scored.  I scribe the line where it should be bent, the dentist's pick giving it support.  It also removes excess PVA.  I then fold the plasticard but to fix it into place it needs a layer of PVA behind it and to be held in place until the glue dried.  This is done with the pick as it is long enough to hold it all down, and is kept there by the clip.  I am fairly certain that the clip came in a posh set of Christmas crackers that had toys in them that were actually useful.

 

 

76601275_InPosition2.jpg.008d26088f8ae6bed8a0cc6dec553ffd.jpg

 

This is the other side, and yes that is a coal tank on a passenger train.  This side has now been finished, at least the middle sections.

2085394789_InPosition3.jpg.4816bc566277017a1dc6603b76f634fa.jpg

 

 

This shows where the building is compared to the rest of the station.  It is not ideal as passengers will be coming out of the main door at the back of the train, except if the train pulls forward and backs into the siding in front of it.  This may of course happen with longer trains, if there are not too many wagons in it.  I cannot have it closer to the bay as it would then be impossible to unload carriage trucks and other things, and I do not want it behind the bay as it would make the station platform too wide.  The other issue would be that the canopy does not cover the passengers as they walk up the train, but as we all know, it never rains on the coast in Wales.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

 

Edited by ChrisN
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13 minutes ago, NCB said:

Now that's what I should have done with my inspired-by-Aberdovey station building, but chickened out!

Nigel

Nigel,

Thank you.  I think it will look alright once finished, particularly at a distance, but there is still a long way to go, with windows, doors and the roof.

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That's an interesting and rare shot of the wider railway. Not exactly run-of-the-mill coaching stock either. Nice to see it all gradually coming together bit by bit.

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On 23/08/2021 at 13:08, ChrisN said:

I notice these paints contain lead.  If I painted the coach roofs with their white and exposed them to a coal fire smoke what are the chances I would get realistic smoke darkening?  :jester:

 

Only if the lead compound is white lead - basic lead carbonate 2PbCO3·Pb(OH)2.

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1 hour ago, Mikkel said:

That's an interesting and rare shot of the wider railway. Not exactly run-of-the-mill coaching stock either. Nice to see it all gradually coming together bit by bit.

 

Mikkel,

Thank you.  Some of the coaches are from when my sons had a railway, the six wheel  coaches and the clerestories were bought to bash into something else, but the cutter has meant that they are not required for that.  Three coaches are pure Cambrian, one modified Hornby and two scratch built, and at the back is a Hornby LNER oil top 5 compartment third, which was going cheap at Jadlam and is the right length and not too different from a 32ft Cambrian 5 compartment third.  (Well, if I am not supposed to be doing coaches.........)  It will need painting obviously.  You can also see a couple of kit built GWR four wheelers waiting for the paint shop.

 

No Cambrian locos, but four of the right era, one of which is the Coal Tank, and the 645 which is waiting for some blackening fluid. 

 

I am using my modelling photos as my screensaver and I am surprised at how much I have done.  I have moved 10mm forward on half a dozen fronts so it appears as if nothing has happened.  Hopefully by Christmas I might have a station.

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Now another question.

 

I have been discussing with @Nick Gough about making roof tiles and both he and @Mikkel are thinking that self adhesive vinyl cut out on a Silhouette cutter is the best option.  The vinyl is 205mm wide and a sheet of A4 is 297mm.  I am of half a mind, (no comments please!), I am of half a mind to use paper and Pritstick, or perhaps Tacky Glue.

 

Now my question is, I am going to use cardboard as the base.  Do you think I should shellac it first, and when I have finished the walls, should they be shellaced, or perhaps have plasticard on the inside as well?  The method I use here will probably be the one I use for all my buildings.

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15 minutes ago, westerhamstation said:

Hi Chris, if using card you might want to consider using a balancing sheet on the back with something of a similar thickness as used on the front, this will counteract any tendency to bowing. All the best Adrian.

 

Adrian,

Thank you, that is always a  thought.  Interestingly though, my Down Shelter has a card centre with brick plasticard on either side and had a distinct bow, so much that in the end I decided to fix it permanently to the cork platform surface.  The surface is not fixed down.  The station has quite a number of cross members to keep it straight, but it will need to be painted, so a plasticard back would be helpful.

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Thank you for your replies to my question.  I am leaning towards shellac as I have two bottles of that, (One ages old and from who knows where, and I might even have bought it as knotting), and it would use a lot of plasticard and it would be quite difficult to get complete coverage.  The coverage is not to prevent warping but as a basis for painting.

 

Now two questions for those who have seen the prototypes.  Looking at the pictures it appears that the posts for the canopy are equally spaced along its length, and I think I have calculated it should be eight for 100ft.  This leaves one post almost outside Mr Price's door, and another quite close to the First Class Refreshment Room.  (It appears that only the ladies can wait without having to sit in a refreshment room.  I would change that  but I would never hear the last from Palmers (?) Refreshments.  They are not very close, so does it matter, and how close are the posts on the actual stations to the doors?  Looking at all the pictures I have it is very difficult to see.  (There is a possibility I may actually get to see Barmouth Station next week, but we would need to be in the area for something else.  My wife can be quite indulgent but, 'Can we drive down to Barmouth so I can look at exactly where the canopy posts are?', may not go down well.

 

Secondly, I am assuming that the floors in the rooms are wooden, and I have half a mind to just score straight floorboards, but I could do diagonals.  I am also going to assume that the entrance hall, which has doors at either end and is a walk way, has a stone floor.

 

Thank you in advance.

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In this photo of Newtown you can see that all the canopy supports seem to be pretty well equidistant except in one place near this end. There is definitely one bigger gap. There may be a bigger gap towards the far end as well, but I can't be certain.

PICT0041.JPG.03a2984b575ba771a472030778b2dc2f.JPG

 

It looks as though the platforms here are narrower here than at Barmouth, so the canopy supports are nearer to the building.

Re the floors, I can't speak for the other stations, but since Newtown has an undercroft I would expect the floors to be timber. They certainly are in the area which was used by Newtown Station Travel (the near end in the photo). I only ever got into the main waiting room once when it was briefly a cafe so don't know about the floor there.

Jonathan

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1 hour ago, corneliuslundie said:

In this photo of Newtown you can see that all the canopy supports seem to be pretty well equidistant except in one place near this end. There is definitely one bigger gap. There may be a bigger gap towards the far end as well, but I can't be certain.

PICT0041.JPG.03a2984b575ba771a472030778b2dc2f.JPG

 

It looks as though the platforms here are narrower here than at Barmouth, so the canopy supports are nearer to the building.

Re the floors, I can't speak for the other stations, but since Newtown has an undercroft I would expect the floors to be timber. They certainly are in the area which was used by Newtown Station Travel (the near end in the photo). I only ever got into the main waiting room once when it was briefly a cafe so don't know about the floor there.

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

Thank you.  I am not sure if I have seen this photo before but I have seen one like it and did not see the bigger gap.  I do now though.  I am not sure how the platform width at Traeth Mawr compares to Newtown or Barmouth, but the difference in size would explain the different types of roof support.  Why am I so interested at the moment when the canopy is a while away?  The stone sheets are not long enough to cover completely the card wall and the canopy supports will cover the join.  

 

Brilliant, thank you for the information.  Of course if Traeth Mawr has an undercroft then it would not have stone in the entrance.  Nice mahogany floor.  I did wonder where those through coaches went  :D

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At Aberdovey the posts either side of the main booking hall entrance were slightly closer together, otherwise I think they were equidistant. See my previous pics. I think the critical thing was the posts having to be in front of a bit of wall to which the canopy brackets could attached. There was plenty of room between posts and building.

 

Nigel

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18 minutes ago, NCB said:

At Aberdovey the posts either side of the main booking hall entrance were slightly closer together, otherwise I think they were equidistant. See my previous pics. I think the critical thing was the posts having to be in front of a bit of wall to which the canopy brackets could attached. There was plenty of room between posts and building.

 

Nigel

 

Nigel,

Thank you.  I shall go back and look at all the photos that I have again, but photos are not the same as standing on the opposite platform which is why I have asked those who have actually been there.  I had assumed that the canopy supports could be on the wall above a window, but perhaps not so I will arrange where the posts go accordingly.  Of course Aberdovey had a different type of canopy so I am squeezing one type onto a building of another.

 

Thank you again, that is really helpful.

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Thank you for your answers.  They have been very helpful.  Now I am sorry if the noise is deafening but that loud grinding sound is the cogs in my brain as they grind into gear processing what has been said.

 

I have looked again at the pictures I have, and the pictures on the internet on Google maps of Newtown, Barmouth and Porthmadog.  What is interesting is that at Newtown the canopy supports are on a plain piece of wall where there is no door or window, and are below the level of the top of the door or window.  At the other two the support is above the level of door and window so it does not matter if it is above either and looking again they certainly are in some places.

 

So, is Newtown building that much shorter.  I do not think so, I think it is to do with the width of the platform and therefore the length of the canopy.  (If anyone knows the height of each and can show I am wrong then I am happy to be corrected.)  

 

Jonathan said that the platform at Newtown was narrower than at Barmouth so I have been on Google maps and done some measurements.  Barmouth and Porthmadog come out at about 23ft, and Newtown about 12ft.  If I assume that the best place for the building at Traeth Mawr is to be in line with the inside of the bay then that gives a platform width of 22ft so it is more like Barmouth and Porthmadog.  The good news is that it is not so important as to exactly where the canopy supports go, and on the Google pictures of Porthmadog they are in similar positions as to where they are on Traeth Mawr, but the bad news is that they will need the fancy supports.

 

Now in the not to distant future I shall not be a million miles from Porthmadog Station and already have run it past my wife that I would like to pop in there, so if you see someone measuring the distance from the posts to the building, the distance from the post to the platform edge and the diameter of the post, and a woman close by pretending that she does not know me, please say 'hello'.

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I have just spent a week in Porthmadog, and not only did I go to Porthmadog Station and measure the platform and position of the awning posts, but also my wife suggested that as we had to leave our accommodation by 9:00 that we drive to Barmouth and have a cooked breakfast.  Being in Barmouth, I went to the station and made some more measurements.  (On the way up I mentioned that we were not far from Newtown and she suggested that we should divert so I could o the measurements there.  I declined as we were already late to meet the person who was letting us into our property.)

 

I am sure you are all fascinated by the measurements.

 

At Porthmadog

 

Building to post                   76"

Post to platform edge       79"

Post circumference           20"

Platform width about       13ft

 

At Barmouth

 

Building to post                  139"

Post to platform edge       89"

Post circumference           17"

Platform width about       19ft

 

It is interesting that it appears the distance from the platform edge is the critical distance.

 

Now when I walked onto the platform at Porthmadog I was horrified.  It sloped from the platform edge to the building.  Now, you may well ask why does it slope and why was I horrified.  Well, when I was building the Down Platform shelter there was a lot of discussion about the height the platform should be.  Cambrian platforms, or at least some, were built short, height not length that is.  They were then after a certain period made higher.  I cannot remember when but it was sometime in the 20th century.  I spent a while looking at Barmouth station platform on photos.  The platforms as viewed from the other platform is made of stone, but with three courses of bricks on the top.  This gives the impression that it was origonally the height of the stone but was increased in height by the addition of the bricks.  

 

I thought and discussed on this thread and eventually decided that it must have been built to the correct height as it is the correct height now, and it is the correct height for the building.  Looking at the photos, Barmouth Station platform is flat.  Standing on it today, it is sloped.  It is not as noticeable as at Porthmadog, as it is six foot wider, but is does slope.  The slope is from the correct height at the front so people can get off the train easily, down to the entrance of the building which is the original height.

 

Now my down platform has been built to be the correct standard height.  It is made of plywood and covered with cork.  The question is, can I get away with it being higher than the main platform, or can I shave three brick courses off the bottom?

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

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