Traeth Mawr -Building Mr Price's house , (mostly)

[corneliuslundie]

You mention a signal box. Do you have information such as how many levers etc? It must be a Dutton box, probably like that at Barmouth, Overton-on-Dee, Marchwiel etc rather than like the Mid Wales stations such as Pantydwr.

Blatant plug: the little book I am sending to the printer tomorrow on behalf of the WRRC has drawings of all these by Mike Morton Lloyd.

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

1 minute ago, corneliuslundie said:

You mention a signal box. Do you have information such as how many levers etc? It must be a Dutton box, probably like that at Barmouth, Overton-on-Dee, Marchwiel etc rather than like the Mid Wales stations such as Pantydwr.

Blatant plug: the little book I am sending to the printer tomorrow on behalf of the WRRC has drawings of all these by Mike Morton Lloyd.

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

I will get back to you on the number of levers, or rather how it is signalled.  This was discussed a while back but I failed to take advantage of the fact that Coastline models at the time did Cambrian signal posts so I will have to work on that.  However, I do know how it is signalled so from that I can work out the number of leavers.

 

The kits that I showed a few pages back are the correct type, so it will be like the Barmouth etc. ones.  Once it is published the book will go on my Christmas list.  If it is not out in time I will just have to buy it myself.  

 

I do know that the Dutton equipment was different so I am going to have to scratchbuild the lever frame.

[Edwardian]

9 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

 

Unfortunately, several of the stations on the Cambrian are a bit toy like.  This is Newtown.  This is the same at other stations which I will not list.  I shall have to work around it.

 

Well, of course, it will depend on the land levels of the location.  It's just that the chances of the surrounding land being exactly the same level as the sleeper base might be less than many modellers may assume!  The track bed and yard are areas that would have to have been levelled or built up, given that nature doesn't deal in baseboards. Thus, chances are that the surrounding land is either higher, or, indeed, lower to some degree. 

 

I just thought you might relieve yourself of the necessity for a ramp, though if you can fit one in, I don't see a problem.  I don't understand your circumstances, i.e. why it would be difficult for you to build up the area around the station, but I noted you were thinking over how to deal with the impact on the station building of different platform and ground levels, and it seemed to me that you could ease this by having the forecourt closer to platform level.  

[ChrisN]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

 

Well, of course, it will depend on the land levels of the location.  It's just that the chances of the surrounding land being exactly the same level as the sleeper base might be less than many modellers may assume!  The track bed and yard are areas that would have to have been levelled or built up, given that nature doesn't deal in baseboards. Thus, chances are that the surrounding land is either higher, or, indeed, lower to some degree. 

 

I just thought you might relieve yourself of the necessity for a ramp, though if you can fit one in, I don't see a problem.  I don't understand your circumstances, i.e. why it would be difficult for you to build up the area around the station, but I noted you were thinking over how to deal with the impact on the station building of different platform and ground levels, and it seemed to me that you could ease this by having the forecourt closer to platform level.  

 

Yes, that is true.  My issue with it is that if I raise the forecourt, I will need to raise the rest of the scenic side.  My problem with that is it needs to be robust enough so that it is not damaged when it is taken down.

[Edwardian]

Just now, ChrisN said:

 

Yes, that is true.  My issue with it is that if I raise the forecourt, I will need to raise the rest of the scenic side.  My problem with that is it needs to be robust enough so that it is not damaged when it is taken down.

 

I see.  What exactly is the requirement for taking stuff down?

[ChrisN]

13 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

I see.  What exactly is the requirement for taking stuff down?

 

The layout is made up of four 4ft 6" x 2ft sections.  Everything removeable has to be taken off, the sections unbolted from each other, legs removed and then protecting boards bolted around the sides.  The edges of each section will have to be strong enough to be handled.  This is one reason that the down platform is solid.

[Edwardian]

7 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

 

The layout is made up of four 4ft 6" x 2ft sections.  Everything removeable has to be taken off, the sections unbolted from each other, legs removed and then protecting boards bolted around the sides.  The edges of each section will have to be strong enough to be handled.  This is one reason that the down platform is solid.

 

Yes, but why does everything have to be removeable?

[ChrisN]

This is the signalling diagram which to my horror we discussed five years ago.

 

 

 

This is what I said at the time, after some discussion.

 

"Here is my final diagram although the actual shapes of the signals I will need to look at against a plethora of actual signals.  The two on the right are advanced home and advanced starter signals.  I have removed the shunting arm as no passengers will be taken down that siding and of course off scene is the exchange siding for the narrow gauge exchange siding.  They will probably be off scene, but are there to protect the shunting and save waking up the signalman in the next box, or get him back from his fishing.

 

The next signal is the home for the down platform and two shunting signals, one for the Up platform and one for the bay.  The third should be on the end of the platform between the Bay and the Up platform and are the starters.  I have put no shunting signals here as I think I will not need to have coaches with passengers going that way and all shunts will be hand signalled.

 

The fourth one is the Down starter, with the shunt signals for both the Up and the Down Platform.  The next is the Up home with shunting signals for both Up and Down Roads.  Finally the two on the left mirror the two on the right.  They may or may not be modelled.

 

There we have it.  I have been 'checking things out' to see that it works and all is ok.  Comments, thoughts always welcome."

 

So counting the points, the slip is a single slip, but I assume needs two levers, and I also assume that the siding is operated from a ground frame.

 

That makes six points.

Fifteen signals.

I am not sure how many point locks I will need, at least three.

 

So maybe thirty livers, with some spare.

 

Thoughts welcomed.

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by ChrisN

[ChrisN]

2 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

Yes, but why does everything have to be removeable?

 

The whole thing has to be stacked on its end, and it seems the easiest way to prevent damage.

 

I know exhibition layouts are regularly taken down and transported but I think these baseboards are larger than might be used and it will only be me doing it.

[NCB]

7 hours ago, ChrisN said:

 

Nigel,

Thank you.  It is in fact the other way round, once I have finally decided where the station goes, and the connected parts, goods delivery yard, station master's house, coal yard, entrance yard, then I can decide where the road is.  There is space, for one row of houses facing the road and hopefully a lane behind.

 

Chris

 

By through road I meant the through line adjacent to the station building, not non-railway roads

 

Nigel

[NCB]

5 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

You mention a signal box. Do you have information such as how many levers etc? It must be a Dutton box, probably like that at Barmouth, Overton-on-Dee, Marchwiel etc rather than like the Mid Wales stations such as Pantydwr.

Blatant plug: the little book I am sending to the printer tomorrow on behalf of the WRRC has drawings of all these by Mike Morton Lloyd.

Jonathan

Jonathan

 

Well done. I'll look forwards to it.

 

Nigel

[corneliuslundie]

You may find this website useful. If you click on the signalbox names in blue there is normally a diagram of the box. Caveat. Many of the diagrams are not dated and may be much more modern that we are looking for.

https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/cdgwtw.htm

I wonder if you need all those shunting signals, especially back in 1895. There are a lot of ground discs on the Barmouth North diagram but it looks pretty modern to me.

Jonathan

PS Another excuse for wasting time and not modelling. Sorry!

[ChrisN]

2 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

You may find this website useful. If you click on the signalbox names in blue there is normally a diagram of the box. Caveat. Many of the diagrams are not dated and may be much more modern that we are looking for.

https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/cdgwtw.htm

I wonder if you need all those shunting signals, especially back in 1895. There are a lot of ground discs on the Barmouth North diagram but it looks pretty modern to me.

Jonathan

PS Another excuse for wasting time and not modelling. Sorry!

 

Jonathan,

Thank you.  I did not know about the SRS but I have used The Signal Box in the past.  About a year or so ago they decided to revamp their site and a lot of stuff has not come back yet.  However, here is a larger view of Barmouth North.

 

Looking at the two Barmouth diagrams I would think that they are at least GWR.  They come from the same collection and Barmouth South is definitely GWR.

 

I have not looked at all the discussion about signals, but the reason for the shunting signals is that there will be coach movements with passengers in.  There are some movements that will need to be hand signalled, queue animated figures, (not).  I am happy to look at everything again, as I do not know.

 

This is not wasting modelling time as I try and do this at other times.

[ChrisN]

It is probably about time that I put up the final pictures from Didcot.  Just a reminder that Edwardian's livery thread is here.

 

A couple of pictures of the luggage van.

 

 

 

 

 

The sign says everything.

 

The roof

 

 

 

Well, I am not that tall.

 

The end.

 

 

 

I did not mean 'The End', I have finished but...., oh never mind.  You notice that the step is the other way up again.

 

The G20 roof.

 

 

 

You notice that the gas tops are painted white, I have always painted them black, ummm.

 

I think I have shown the table inside before.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes I am building a G20.  Footboards next I think.  No I am not going to show you a gratuitous picture of my G20, but I will show the bogie.

 

 

 

More about this next time, unless it is signals, or stations, or even town planning.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

Edited October 4, 2022 by ChrisN

[NCB]

Interesting that the rainstrips are painted brown, and rather shallower than I'd have thought. I know some but not all Dean coaches had the area below the rainstrips painted brown, but if they weren't then I assumed that the rainstrip would be painted white.

[Simond]

I’d not spotted the brown rain strips before, I guess they were painted before they were fitted.

 

I’d hate to try to paint them on a model.  Source of brown microstrip, anyone?

[NCB]

4 hours ago, Simond said:

I’d not spotted the brown rain strips before, I guess they were painted before they were fitted.

 

I’d hate to try to paint them on a model.  Source of brown microstrip, anyone?

 

I wonder how accurate the brown rain strip is. Think I'd be inclined to paint mine white, as I have done previously.

 

Re the shallowness of the rainstrip (by shallowness I mean the curvature), looking at pics this seems to vary. Certainly some have distinctly more of a curve.

 

Nigel

[MikeOxon]

I find that the thin brown line inside the perimeter of the cream panels gives a visual impression that the central area of the panel is raised above the edges.  i suspect that this is an intentional illusion. 

 

I find the whole subject of 'lining' is fascinating.  There's no doubt that it adds something hard to define to the appearance of an object.

[Charlie586]

Sorry for being a few weeks behind Chris,  but thinking about luggage racks. When I built a model ship it came with a jig for the rigging and some fine cotton. The grooves are 1mm apart and I think I used superglue for the joins

 

 

I'll try a little test patch at some point 

[ChrisN]

15 minutes ago, Charlie586 said:

Sorry for being a few weeks behind Chris,  but thinking about luggage racks. When I built a model ship it came with a jig for the rigging and some fine cotton. The grooves are 1mm apart and I think I used superglue for the joins

 

 

I'll try a little test patch at some point 

 

Charlie,

Thank you, that is really interesting.  Do you know if you can buy these things separately?

 

I have looked at wargammers netting and they all appear to have too large a hole.  My garlic net has holes of approx 2mm, (I have net measured it, just looked and guessed), and I have bought some diamond mesh fencing, with holes of 1.3mm on the basis that if it looks wrong for luggage rcks I can use it for fencing between my houses.  I just need to check if they used that in 1895.  I know they used it in 1930s council houses but I am not sure when it was introduced.  There are not many pictures of people in their back gardens.

[Charlie586]

18 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

 

Charlie,

Thank you, that is really interesting.  Do you know if you can buy these things separately?

 

I have looked at wargammers netting and they all appear to have too large a hole.  My garlic net has holes of approx 2mm, (I have net measured it, just looked and guessed), and I have bought some diamond mesh fencing, with holes of 1.3mm on the basis that if it looks wrong for luggage rcks I can use it for fencing between my houses.  I just need to check if they used that in 1895.  I know they used it in 1930s council houses but I am not sure when it was introduced.  There are not many pictures of people in their back gardens.

I don't know if they can be bought separately, I imagine you can.  You can probably make a rough one from a square of thick plasticard,  chop the middle out , and mark grooves in the outer edges. 0.5 mm would probably be nearer scale but a lot more fiddly. 

[westerhamstation]

Hi Chris, a bit of a time line on wire mesh. All the best Adrian.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_wire 

[ChrisN]

28 minutes ago, westerhamstation said:

Hi Chris, a bit of a time line on wire mesh. All the best Adrian.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_wire 

 

Adrian,

Brilliant!  Thank you, that is very interesting.  So I know it is possible, so I shall look for photographic evidence.

[ChrisN]

I did say that I would post about the Dean Bogie.  This was how we saw it last.

 

 

 

Now with footboards.

 

 

 

and from the top

 

 

 

and underneath

 

 

 

It looks a bit rough, well rougher than usual, because when I was looking at the diagram of it, it appeared that the spacer between the wheels was on top of the bogie sides, but looking at photos kindly supplied by members of this parish, it was obvious that the diagram showed the bottom of the coach and the spacer was in between.  I had already cut out the spacer beautifully, so I then hacked it into the proper width and holes for the wheels.

 

What is missing of course are the hangers, about which I am not sure what to do.  Without those this is finished, which must be a first.  (Yes I know it is not painted, but that will come later.)  So all it needs now is another bogie and the E25 to go on top of it, as if I had not got enough to do.  (Shout very loudly if you would like me to move those items up my 'to do' list.)

Edited September 19, 2023 by ChrisN

[Nick Gough]

44 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

I did say that I would post about the Dean Bogie.  This was how we saw it last.

 

 

Now with footboards.

 

 

and from the top

 

 

and underneath

 

 

It looks a bit rough, well rougher than usual, because when I was looking at the diagram of it, it appeared that the spacer between the wheels was on top of the bogie sides, but looking at photos kindly supplied by members of this parish, it was obvious that the diagram showed the bottom of the coach and the spacer was in between.  I had already cut out the spacer beautifully, so I then hacked it into the proper width and holes for the wheels.

 

What is missing of course are the hangers, about which I am not sure what to do.  Without those this is finished, which must be a first.  (Yes I know it is not painted, but that will come later.)  So all it needs now is another bogie and the E25 to go on top of it, as if I had not got enough to do.  (Shout very loudly if you would like me to move those items up my 'to do' list.

Looks good.

Is it completely scratchbuilt - apart from the wheels?