Traeth Mawr -Building Mr Price's house , (mostly)

[drduncan]

Slinn does not give a diagram number for the 4w siphon only lot numbers. Brakes are vacuum/outside rigged clasp brakes, three lots, first two fitted with the stable door type doors framing  while the final lot (10 vehs) had the standard siphon door with a single diagonal brace and no waist brace.

D

Edited January 22, 2022 by drduncan

[Dana Ashdown]

These are Lewis's earlier articles on Siphons:

 

The Siphon Story Pt1 by John Lewis.pdf

 

Siphon Story Pt2 by John Lewis.pdf

[Dana Ashdown]

And Lewis's article on 6-wheel Siphons:

 

Six-Wheeled Siphons by John Lewis.pdf

[ChrisN]

50 minutes ago, drduncan said:

Slinn does not give a diagram number for the 4w siphon only lot numbers. Brakes are vacuum/outside rigged clasp brakes, three lots, first two fitted with the stable door type doors things abs final lot (10 vehs) had the standard siphon door with a single cross brace and no waist brace.

D

 

Duncan,

Thank you.  I had thought it was that way round as why would you change a design just to change it back again?  (Unless it did not work of course.)

[ChrisN]

47 minutes ago, Dana Ashdown said:

These are Lewis's earlier articles on Siphons:

 

The Siphon Story Pt1 by John Lewis.pdf 3.78 MB · 4 downloads

 

Siphon Story Pt2 by John Lewis.pdf 3.27 MB · 4 downloads

 

45 minutes ago, Dana Ashdown said:

And Lewis's article on 6-wheel Siphons:

 

Six-Wheeled Siphons by John Lewis.pdf 5.54 MB · 1 download

 

Dana,

Thank you.  I shall read these with interest.

 

They probably ought to go up my 'To do' list as everyone has been so helpful.  (So little time and so many models.)

[ChrisN]

On Sunday my wife was in contact with someone who on Monday did a test and found that they have Covid.  Now they were both wearing masks and the likelihood of my wife catching it is minimal.  However, she feels that we should minimise contact until at least Friday morning.  She has therefore shut herself in the side room with the TV and her computer(s).  There is not much work to do round the house this week so I have been forced to do some modelling.   (I know, it's a hard life.)  Come lunchtime, i.e., midday, when we usually have dinner she comes into the kitchen/ extension area to cook.  (Yes, I could do it, but she prefers to do it herself.)  So, I am then banished upstairs.

 

Now, upstairs is the layout, and on the layout there are unpainted coaches, and paints and paint brushes, and paper to paint over.  So what do I do?  Do I finish off the boy who sells papers on the platform?  Or the crossing sweeper?  Or paint the ATS figures, or any number of other figures who clamour to be finished off?  No, I did two coaches, well started anyway.

 

 

 

Yes, the LBSCR saloon.

 

 

 

The Stroudley Brake third. 

 

Both have had black painted below the body, and on springs and things, and have a Pheonix paints Teak Base coat.  Now I know the Stroudley should be mahogany, but this is the base.  (I do not remember if they had a mahogany base.)  

 

Now I had decided the saloon should be teak, for reasons I can only just about remember, but I also thought that the MSLR Tri-composite should be mahogany. (I am sure I have read this somewhere, and have a document but I thought I had a longer one.)  So to confirm i googled MSLR, and then had to type it out in full as I am not interested in the Mid-Suffolk Light Railway.  I came across this web page.

 

I would hope that these people would know what they are talking about but they are saying that the colour should be Oak, which is really a pale yellow.  I have oak, although I may use a teak base and darken it, but is that correct?  If those who follow the Great Central would enlighten me I would be grateful.

 

So if I have been painting carriages, have I progressed on the station building.  Yes!  Much better than I could have hoped, but that will be the subject of another post as I have found that if you have two subjects in a text, email or thread post, it only confuses people.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

Edited November 5, 2022 by ChrisN

[Mikkel]

Good to see new coaches for Traeth Mawr Chris, lovely specimens. 

 

On 22/01/2022 at 16:41, Dana Ashdown said:

And Lewis's article on 6-wheel Siphons:

 

Six-Wheeled Siphons by John Lewis.pdf 5.54 MB · 12 downloads

 

Thanks Dana. So that confirms that the O1 diagram was transferred to the six-wheelers. To avoid confusion, I think I'll adopt John's way of naming the six-wheel O1s:

 

 

 

[Dana Ashdown]

I can't take complete credit for the Siphon articles. They are from a very useful website with all kinds of articles that have been scanned for download, only now I can't remember which site it was. It was posted in at least one thread on RMWeb, so someone should know.

[Northroader]

Ref MSLR coach paint, I looked at the Nigel Digby articles from the BRM supplement. This is pretty well word for word what it says on the LNER site. Gold lining out, solebars lighter than body, ironwork “bronzed green” Then goes on to refer to CLC (MSLR did the spec for these) coaches officially noted as “oak brown”.

Looking at his painting of a coach, there’s no real difference from what I’m doing for a GER coach and calling “teak”, you think modern furniture oak and teak, but it doesn’t look that much lighter here. I’ve taken a shot of his painting in weak winter sunlight to show this.

[ChrisN]

33 minutes ago, Northroader said:

Ref MSLR coach paint, I looked at the Nigel Digby articles from the BRM supplement. This is pretty well word for word what it says on the LNER site. Gold lining out, solebars lighter than body, ironwork “bronzed green” Then goes on to refer to CLC (MSLR did the spec for these) coaches officially noted as “oak brown”.

Looking at his painting of a coach, there’s no real difference from what I’m doing for a GER coach and calling “teak”, you think modern furniture oak and teak, but it doesn’t look that much lighter here. I’ve taken a shot of his painting in weak winter sunlight to show this.

 

Thank you.

Is that the 2002 supplement?  The digital archive does not go back that far, so thank you for this picture.  I always imagined oak to be dark but modern paints make it a sort of yellow.  Maybe I will paint it teak then.  I have half done the teak base coat on it.  Fortunately I have not painted down to the running board in black so I can do it in teak.  Shame about the lining though.

[Northroader]

Maybe not so involved as this, but could give an idea for colours to use:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u_fRpJUyBDg

 

[ChrisN]

20 minutes ago, Northroader said:

Maybe not so involved as this, but could give an idea for colours to use:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u_fRpJUyBDg

 

 

Thank you again.  

 

That video confirms why the base coat is so light.  With the other two I have gone for a panited look, as they are quite old in1895. If I have missed a little I will leave it perhaps as graining showing through, depending on what it looks like.  This one I may well go for the grained look, and try and not paint the mouldings, leaving them as lining.  Worth a try.

Edited January 27, 2022 by ChrisN

[ChrisN]

Well, I have ordered a white paint pen with nib of 0.5mm and have one with 0.3mm in my sights but it is out of stock, and they are emailing when it comes in, not that I have even finished the base coat of the coach.

 

In other news,

 

I have progressed with the windows.

 

 

 

This is how far I had got by Thursday.  The long wall shows all the sills in place and the cardboard frame removed.  That shows all the windows for that side are done.  On the top left they are numbered which means that work had started on them.  They are now all done and at the stage of the ones below.  The keen eyed will notice that there are two number 7s.  I actually labelled the end one, 'Mens', which it is, and forgot the number on the back.  I then numbered the next without realising.

 

As an aside, I am not happy at how the model is holding up under my handling.  In future I will probably do windows first so that there is a minimum amount of handling once the cladding is on.  Ummm.

 

So, windows

 

 

 

You see all the sash windows I have done, complete with one set of glazing, and annotated as to which is which.  They are fractionally different.  Note to self, measure in future, do not use a template and cut through- it moves!  You also notice the 'metal' frame which will be painted green.  Hopefully it will be obvious once they are glued on.  The front is labelled as it is the dull side and holds the pencil better, it is also likely to be painted over, but by that time, when I write on the back the numbering will not have to last long.

 

You may wonder why I have not glued them on as I went.  The reasons are: 1) I need to lay it flat to draw round the space and mark the window sizes as described earlier, and 2) the parts need painting and it seems a waste to break open the green paint, which is enamel, for one window at a time.

 

The sills.

 

I mentioned earlier that I had to prise off the plastic below the window as it is not needed.  This is a shame as they are probably the best stuck down bits on the model.  I then scrape the cardboard to a lower level with a Stanley knife, a scalpel is not strong enough, and then measure how wide the sill should be.  This is then cut from 1 x 4mm plastic strip and the ends 'nibbed' as so:-

 

 

 

This is offered up to the window space and then filed to the tight size.  Copious amounts of PVA are applied to the card and when in position, polystyrene glue is used to stick it to the window surrounds.

 

Each window is cut out, glued together, left to dry, 'metal' frame cut out, and when the sash is dry, usually next day, made to fit both sash and window space, then the sill is put in place and left to dry.  While drying is happening, or before I glue I have to think so that I am not stuck doing nothing.  Up until last week, it was all a slow process anyway and I thought what I should do is make the toilet door at least to get that end finished.  I would then paint as much as I could in one go, then fix the window and the door.  However, I have nearly finished the windows now, one and a half have been done on the other half wall, so I shall do the doors in one go.  I finally feel progress is being made, and although we are not on the final straight we have nearly completed the middle part of the 'race'.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by ChrisN

[drduncan]

 Chris,

When you start on your siphons paint the bodies before you fit all the roof bracing (access inside gets difficult from that point) and then add a row of conical milk churns inside each side (if you do this before painting guess what happens).

 

Apparently siphons rarely ran empty - the return rubs were full of empty churns being brought back. The exemptions were siphons being used for fish and fruit traffic when they might indeed run back really empty- although they too could be used to convey empty fish/fruit boxes back for loading I suppose….

 

Duncan

[Nick Gough]

Nice to see that you're working on the building again Chris.

 

I can appreciate how intricate it is to make the windows.

[Coal Tank]

Thats Looking very nice Chris 

[ChrisN]

5 hours ago, drduncan said:

 Chris,

When you start on your siphons paint the bodies before you fit all the roof bracing (access inside gets difficult from that point) and then add a row of conical milk churns inside each side (if you do this before painting guess what happens).

 

Apparently siphons rarely ran empty - the return rubs were full of empty churns being brought back. The exemptions were siphons being used for fish and fruit traffic when they might indeed run back really empty- although they too could be used to convey empty fish/fruit boxes back for loading I suppose….

 

Duncan

 

Duncan,

Thank you.  I shall probably seal it with shellac first, then as you have suggested paint it.  I do have some milk churns, but I think only a pack of ten, if only I could find them..............  I will obviously need to buy more, a lot more.

 

I received the axleboxes for the 02 last week.  I thought they were a separate order, but they just turned up.  Interesting.

[ChrisN]

3 hours ago, Nick Gough said:

Nice to see that you're working on the building again Chris.

 

I can appreciate how intricate it is to make the windows.

 

Nick, I have not stopped working on it, it is just that normally everything is so slow nothing appears to be happening.  Once it is in a position so that I can paint it, watching the paint dry will be quicker.

 

 

1 hour ago, Coal Tank said:

Thats Looking very nice Chris 

 

Thank you.  I am not so impressed as I see it close up, but hopefully it will look the part.

[drduncan]

19 hours ago, ChrisN said:

 

Duncan,

Thank you.  I shall probably seal it with shellac first, then as you have suggested paint it.  I do have some milk churns, but I think only a pack of ten, if only I could find them..............  I will obviously need to buy more, a lot more.

 

I received the axleboxes for the 02 last week.  I thought they were a separate order, but they just turned up.  Interesting.

Yes I sealed mine with shellac too. I’ll have a go at printing some churns this week and if they’re any good post them to you…and I’ll try to get back in the attic to count up how many per side you’ll need one way or t’other.

D

Edited January 31, 2022 by drduncan

[Dana Ashdown]

On 27/01/2022 at 12:37, ChrisN said:

I always imagined oak to be dark but modern paints make it a sort of yellow.

I'm a bit late with this, but without any staining, oak can be quite light, especially white oak. However, over the decades/centuries it does darken down. Think Jacobean furniture, which usually looks very dark. When new, it would have been light and frequently featured painted highlights/details.

 

I would imagine the varnish used by the railways would have imparted a yellowy or orangey tint to the oak. The more varnish, the more pronounced the tint.

Edited February 5, 2022 by Dana Ashdown

[ChrisN]

3 hours ago, Dana Ashdown said:

I'm a bit late with this, but without any staining, oak can be quite light, especially white oak. However, over the decades/centuries it does darken down. Think Jacobean furniture, which usually looks very dark. When new, it would have been light and frequently featured painted highlights/details.

 

I would imagine the varnish used by the railways would have imparted a yellowy or orangey tint to the oak. The more varnish, the more pronounced the tint.

 

Dana,

When I first applied oak paint to the inside of one of my coaches I was surprised at how pale it was.  Then I looked at some modern oak furniture, and yes it was quite pale.  I was surprised that the MS&LR had oak coaches but the picture above from @Northroader plus the video has made me think again.  However, I probably need to do some more investigation, but I only have one GCR book, and am not really wanting to buy any more.

[NCB]

With colour an awful lot depends on lighting. I reckon "the right sort of thing" is good enough.

[ChrisN]

On 05/02/2022 at 19:37, NCB said:

With colour an awful lot depends on lighting. I reckon "the right sort of thing" is good enough.

 

Nigel,

I agree.  I have seen so many arguments over colour, which I try not to get involved with, or encourage.  There is a postcard on the Barmouth website that I keep referring to, of a Cambrian coach, and it is brown.  Now I know some people think that Cambrian Bronze Green is quite brown but this is quite different, so my usual take on it is that if someone was there, preferably standing on the platform at Traeth Mawr in 1895, and can tell me my colour is definitely wrong then I will repaint all my coaches.  (Three so far.)

 

However, I had thought MS&LR coaches were varnished Teak, but varnished oak could be quite different; the colour oak I have is really a type of yellow, and not bad for painting blondes.  So, I would like a pointer.  I am happy to paint to the colour shown in the previous post, unless I can find evidence to show clearly that it was much more yellow.

Edited March 9, 2022 by ChrisN

[Compound2632]

On 27/01/2022 at 16:57, Northroader said:

solebars lighter than body,

 

I would expect that at this period, although the body panelling was teak, the solebars, headstocks, etc. would be best English or American oak. If both were varnished with the same varnish, the different woods would end up differing in colour - and I think the oak would be lighter.

[ChrisN]

So, it was the LNER site that set us running around wondering about 'Varnished Oak' with GOLD Lining.  It also says that before 1857 the colour was Claret.  Does @Northroader's picture look claret?

 

Having forgotten where I got the information from, it happens, I looked in my folder and found something someone sent me, or I copied about liveries.  This had the insides as well as saying the outsides were plain, and were varnished...............

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mahogany.  (I will put a link to that Cambrian carriage postcard soon.)