Traeth Mawr -Building Mr Price's house , (mostly)

[ChrisN]

46 minutes ago, NCB said:

Think it was supposed to be a branch off the Van branch. As it is a through station it could have continued to somewhere north of the current Llyn Clywedog, although there are substantial hills in the way.

 

Nigel

 

Yes, you are right.  I have just found the program.  It is a branch, (twig), off the Van Railway and is set in 1910-12.  Passenger services terminated there but the line continues on to the mine.  The station buildings are a copy of Cambrian ones while the Smithy is a copy of the one at LLawrglyn, and the original has been dismantled and rebuilt at St Fagan's National History Museum, Cardiff.

 

Edit:  Here is a picture of the station building, and the dragon van.

Edited May 22, 2021 by ChrisN

[NCB]

I'm thinking over setting my Cambrian interests about 1910-1912 as well. For one thing it is less testing as regards painting coaches, all over green instead of white panelling; not sure my dodgy right hand is up to doing the latter. For another, I think the polished brasswork on locomotives was increasingly painted over. I always look for easy ways out!

 

Nigel

[corneliuslundie]

I chose 1912 because it was in many ways a time of transition. For the Rhymney there could still have been "red" wagons around - just. For the GWR I have a choice of carriage three liveries, albeit that the lake would not have been at all common; and for the Rhymey two. And there was also a nice mix of older and newer designs of stock around, though unfortunately not the Rhymney 18 ft/9 ft 9 in. wheelbase vehicles. Though NCB could slip in the odd 15T Cambrian loco coal wagon, a nice contrast to two-plankers and 6 ton O/F vans.

Jonathan

[NCB]

14 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

 Though NCB could slip in the odd 15T Cambrian loco coal wagon, a nice contrast to two-plankers and 6 ton O/F vans.

Jonathan

 

As here

 

[corneliuslundie]

Very nice. That pic raises a question. Did they ever carry the words LOCO COAL? They were certainly bought for that traffic but the two official photos I have seen show no sign of such wording, whereas the slightly later Rhymney ones did carry those words.

And one thing needs adding to your model: the round "bang plate" on the second plank down of the door.

 

Jonathan

[Donw]

See here http://dolgellau.wales/features/railway-town.php   Dolgelley  had a tank on wooden supports on the Cambrian side of the road bridge. I assume it had been put there by the Cambrian and not the GWR. What  I have yet to find is a picture of the Cambrian signal box that was nearby and in use from 1884 approx until 1922.

 

Don

 

[corneliuslundie]

I asked someone I know who has an interest in Dolgelley but none of his photos shows the signal box. It seems to have been rather elusive.

Jonathan

[NCB]

On 25/05/2021 at 03:13, corneliuslundie said:

Very nice. That pic raises a question. Did they ever carry the words LOCO COAL? They were certainly bought for that traffic but the two official photos I have seen show no sign of such wording, whereas the slightly later Rhymney ones did carry those words.

And one thing needs adding to your model: the round "bang plate" on the second plank down of the door.

 

Jonathan

 

Some did carry LOCO COAL, on a separate plank attached to the sides, but not sure how consistent it was.

 

Yep, it not only needs the bang plate but the door banger itself. I'll get around to it, one day ...

 

Nigel

Edited May 26, 2021 by NCB

[ChrisN]

I thought it would be rather a nice change rather than modelling to talk about why Barmouth in 1901 with a population of just over 2000 managed to have two postmasters, one assistant postmaster and 8 postmen, one of which was a 'Rural Postman'.    No, it is Ok, I did not really, even though I think it is an interesting fact.

 

There has been some modelling, alongside sorting out the Doctor and his family.  I have been slowly getting on with the tables.  This had to wait for the arrival of shorter bolts and Nyloc nuts.  The nuts have sorted the problems I had with the nuts undoing and the wheel sets becoming 'wobbly' causing the coach not to run properly.  It now runs without any problems.  

 

The bolts I ordered are 6mm although I could possibly get away with 5mm but I think the extra length gives more flexibility.  It will make a nice conversation piece in the compartments depending on where it is.

 

I need to fit tables on each side, but they need to be removeable in case the nuts become loose in the future.  I have some 3/32nd tubes and as these are Evergreen, it is possible to buy the next appropriate size up and it will fit inside.  I looked to buy some but I had not got enough other things to buy to make it worthwhile, as they had to be bought online.  I looked in my paint brush box and found a brush cover that was just about the right size  The theory was that at the bolt end, the 3/32nd tube would be glued inside a short piece of cover, and then the bottom opened out with a scalpel and broach so the it fits over the nut.  At the other end a piece of cover was cut to be glued into place.  Having decided on the correct distance for this piece I cut a piece of rectangular card of the correct length, then used this, with the side lined up with the centre of the door and at the other end marked where the cover piece should go.  This was then glued in place with polystyrene cement.

 

 

 

You can see above, on the left a piece of 3/32nd tube ready to go into the cover already in place, and on the right, the tube glued inside the cover.

 

 

 

Here you see the tube on the left slotted into the cover and the glued piece pushed onto the bolt.

 

I then cut out the tables.  The tables have drop down sides and I assumed that they were of equal width.  What I needed to do was the fix the 3/32nd piece and the glued piece to the table in the correct place so they would fit over the bolt and into the cover.  I could have spent ages measuring it all up and working out the correct distance so that I could have the frustration of it accurately not fitting.  I decided the best thing to do was to put polystyrene cement on the tube on the left and on the top of the glued piece on the right and push the cut out tables onto them.  They were left for a day to dry and the table now with its legs were removed.

 

 

 

This is with both sides done.

 

 

 

Here both tables are in place.  You will notice that one side has one of the leaves up.  The ladies will be on this side with a bag or two on it.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

Edited June 13, 2023 by ChrisN

[Mikkel]

9 hours ago, ChrisN said:

I thought it would be rather a nice change rather than modelling to talk about why Barmouth in 1901 with a population of just over 2000 managed to have two postmasters, one assistant postmaster and 8 postmen, one of which was a 'Rural Postman'.    No, it is Ok, I did not really, even though I think it is an interesting fact.

 

Very civilized. Although to be fair to modern times, they probably delivered one byte per person per day 

 

9 hours ago, ChrisN said:

The tables have drop down sides

 

I didn't realize they had drop down sides. Now I'll have to come up with an excuse for mine.  

 

Will there be a hamper on the table? Or is that too rustic for the Doctor?

 

 

[MikeOxon]

I was looking forward to a long discourse about the postmasters and their staff

 

I must be very dozy at present - when I read "I have been slowly getting on with the tables.  This had to wait for the arrival of shorter bolts and Nyloc nuts.", I was thinking "surely he's not going to build miniature glued and screwed tables?"

 

It was a relief to read "I could have spent ages measuring it all up and working out the correct distance so that I could have the frustration of it accurately not fitting.  I decided the best thing to do was to put polystyrene cement on the tube on the left and on the top of the glued piece on the right and push the cut out tables onto them."  That is my own approach to modelling.  I often make paper templates or other methods, rather than relying on measurements.  After all, 0.5 mm translates into 1.5 inches at actual size and it's hard to cut pieces by hand much more accurately than that.

 

When I built my 'Posting Carriage' I read an account of it that said the tables could be used to "eat, read or play chess".  I look forward to seeing how your family occupy themselves - how about a scale chess set

 

Mike

[Simond]

3 hours ago, Mikkel said:

one byte per person per day

presumably about the ankle, from Mrs Jones’ terrier

[Compound2632]

4 hours ago, Mikkel said:

I didn't realize they had drop down sides. Now I'll have to come up with an excuse for mine.  

 

L&NWR picnic saloons had fixed long tables about 18" wide - not very convenient for actually picnicking off. Midland ones had long tables with a narrow fixed part - about 9" wide - and wide leaves - about 15". So practice varied. Unfortunately the restored Midland saloon at Butterley is table-less unlike the one transferred to the M&GN and restored on the NNR.

[NCB]

14 hours ago, ChrisN said:

I thought it would be rather a nice change rather than modelling to talk about why Barmouth in 1901 with a population of just over 2000 managed to have two postmasters, one assistant postmaster and 8 postmen, one of which was a 'Rural Postman'.    No, it is Ok, I did not really, even though I think it is an interesting fact.

 

 

Lot of walking to do. Might have used the odd horse but walking was the main thing. All the sorting would have been done locally.

 

A long time ago I came across a postman at Elgol on Skye, who'd just finished his round and was caught in a storm. Gave him a lift back to Broadford. Said he enjoyed the walking, but he was about to retire, and when he did they'd bring in a van.

 

Nigel

[ChrisN]

5 hours ago, Mikkel said:

 

Very civilized. Although to be fair to modern times, they probably delivered one byte per person per day 

 

 

2 hours ago, MikeOxon said:

I was looking forward to a long discourse about the postmasters and their staff

 

Mike

 

Yes, Postmasters.

 

I did wonder if there were two Post Offices, and what size they were but I could find no information.  The present Post Office is rather small.  It may be that the two Postmasters were in the same one.  One was a lot older than the other so perhaps one was the Senior and one the junior.

 

There would have been the collections, and deliveries, although not sure how many,  I doubt it was up to the 8 collections and 11 deliveries that there were in London.  What else did they do?  When were postal orders invented?  It has been rumoured that the Postmaster's wife at Traeth Mawr went into the Post Office on a Thursday and found him at the desk waiting, with no one in the shop.

 

PW:  What are you doing dear?

PM: Waiting for the onslaught of old folks to get their pensions.

PW: You will have a long wait, they are not going to be introduced until 1911.

 

It was a different world, and I am sure as @NCB has posted as I write, there was a lot of walking,, and sorting, and carrying.  Only one postman put himself down as a 'Rural Postman', but perhaps some of the others were.  It was of course at that time almost the only means of communication, and the volume of post was probably much higher.  (Robert Parry the Traeth Mawr Coal Merchant nearly had a phone installed, so that he could boast of having the Dialling code of Traeth Mawr 1, and so people could phone there orders.  He then realised that one one else had one so it would be a waste of time.)

 

 

[ChrisN]

On 06/06/2021 at 07:51, Mikkel said:

 

I didn't realize they had drop down sides. Now I'll have to come up with an excuse for mine.  

 

Will there be a hamper on the table? Or is that too rustic for the Doctor?

 

 

 

On 06/06/2021 at 10:59, MikeOxon said:

I must be very dozy at present - when I read "I have been slowly getting on with the tables.  This had to wait for the arrival of shorter bolts and Nyloc nuts.", I was thinking "surely he's not going to build miniature glued and screwed tables?"

 

It was a relief to read "I could have spent ages measuring it all up and working out the correct distance so that I could have the frustration of it accurately not fitting.  I decided the best thing to do was to put polystyrene cement on the tube on the left and on the top of the glued piece on the right and push the cut out tables onto them."  That is my own approach to modelling.  I often make paper templates or other methods, rather than relying on measurements.  After all, 0.5 mm translates into 1.5 inches at actual size and it's hard to cut pieces by hand much more accurately than that.

 

When I built my 'Posting Carriage' I read an account of it that said the tables could be used to "eat, read or play chess".  I look forward to seeing how your family occupy themselves - how about a scale chess set

 

Mike

 

This will not be for the Doctor's family, but for the farmers and their wives going to the market.  The side with the flaps down is for the farmers and sons, and the other side for their wives and daughters.  I will have to find a hamper, hungry work getting up early to market.

 

 

 

 

This photo I took makes it look as if has drop down sides, and this one shows it with one side up.  I assumed that all three sections were the same width, and did not do that properly, and this shows the centre section is narrower.  

 

You will notice on the above picture that the table leg sits on top of a nut around a bolt, so my rendition is entirely accurate!  

 

Scale chess set.  I had a travelling chess set once, probably still do somewhere, which had pieces with prongs that stuck into holes in the board, and these were possibly half inch high, (sorry Mikkel that is this much |                         |. )  Even at two inches I would be pushing it, so how about draughts?  (Checkers.)

 

Templates.  @westerhamstation once suggested that for repeat measurements you should measure once on a piece of card and in each place make a cut.  This works, what does not work is using the end as one marker, and the other with a cut.  All will be revealed when that piece of work is put up.  Measuring, cutting, filing to size, etc will be discussed in my next posting, which as you can tell as it is this thread, is of course nothing to do with the above.

Edited June 13, 2023 by ChrisN

[corneliuslundie]

I suspect that the Barmouth post office served quite a large area, as the next one was probably ay Dolgelley to the east, Towyn to the south and Traeth Mawr to the north. Not sure about how many deliveries. I remember the story of someone who worked in Birmingham but lived in Harborne and used to send a postcard home to say what time he would be back from work. I suspect that wouldn't have been the case in Barmouth.

Jonathan 

[ChrisN]

in one of G. K. Chesterton's Father Brown stories, a murder was committed when 'there was nobody in the street'.  I think the date written was 1910 so the explanation that in fact it was the postman, so nobody 'saw' him, may account for the number of postmen in Barmouth.  Even if people saw them they may not have noticed they were different.  

 

I have been thinking.  Yes, that is a dangerous trait that has to be discourage, but I am afraid it has become a habit that is hard to break.  My Down Platform is made out of three strips of plywood.  This was fairly simple as it is a straight platform.  Also it is on the board edge and will/may eventually be permananet so has to be fairly robust.

 

The Up Platform, is a slightly different matter.  It has a curved end, a bay with platform edges on both sides.  It would be possible to cut such a shape, probably in parts, especially as it goes over the baseboard join.  It would be a job for the summer outside and if I decided to do it.  I have to rebuild my shed door, as the man who put it together, hung the door upside down, which means that it has dropped, so once in the garden, playing with wood, why not?

 

Before I do that, I would like to know how others build their platforms.  (Yes, I probably have read it on your thread but I am afraid I cannot remember.)

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

 

[corneliuslundie]

I tend to use plasticard where they are curved, and timber where they are straight. There is only one platform at Nantcwmdu but the rear is curved at the end so I am building it in plasticard. The straight part at the other end is a lump of 2 x 1 at the end as that happened to be the right thickness and it supports the building, and stripwood between that and the plastic end. The top surfaces will all be plastic sheets of various types, and the facing will be brick sheet.

I am sure that has just confused things.

Jonathan

[NCB]

 

3m/ft. Peco N scale stone platform sides (they're the right depth for 3mm because they allow for track using Peco ballast underlay). Slaters sheet paving, supported on plastic formers fitted between the sides.

 

Nigel

[Simond]

Much depends on available technology, and patience.  And materials, time, money, aspirations etc., etc...
 

Plywood, sawn to the height of the walls, less the thickness of the top, can be curved smoothly if thin enough, and braced with more of the same, in diagonal fashion from wall to wall.  If the curves need to be tighter than it will happily do, cutting half slots in the inside surface will make it more flexible, but you’ll lose a bit of smoothness.  The vertical surfaces can be covered with brick paper or plasticard.
 

It is probably easier to disguise the join along the ballast at the foot of the platform than a great crevasse across its surface, so consider making the whole affair (complete with buildings, perhaps) lift off.  A plywood top (eg 4 mm) will be too thick for scale, though excellent for strength, but it can be stopped a few mm back from the visible edge.  The visible surface could be plasticard, scribed for flagstones, perhaps with gravel infill, if your prototype suits.

 

hth

Simon

Edited June 8, 2021 by Simond

[Nick Gough]

My three platforms, at Cholsey, are all timber based.

 

The simplest one, for the down main line, is just two lengths of 18mm thick softwood placed end to end. 18mm - allowing 7mm for the height of the underlay and track. I plan to face the platform surface and sides, of this and the other platforms, with plasticard.

 

The centre island, up main/down relief, I have used 18mm/20mm MDF strips along each side, adjacent to the track, leaving the centre free to allow me to 'bury' the platform building and signal box below the surface. Once I have established the exact position for the building I will use some more of the MDF for cross-bracing. This platform is wider at one end than the other so the strips are fixed to taper.

 

The last platform, up relief, has a branch bay at one end, and the platform is wider here, so I have used MDF strips again for this one.

 

MDF rather than softwood simply because I could only get strips at the correct thickness in that material. I am not confident in my ability to cut plywood accurately enough, for the platform walls, to create a consistently flat, level and smooth top surface!

 

All my platforms are straight rather than curved. The MDF strips do have some flexibility for bending, but if I had to make a severe curve I think I would try cutting the MDF into short blocks first.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Nick Gough

[ChrisN]

Firstly, thank you for those who have shared their thoughts about platform construction.  I have not been ignoring you but life has got in the way of a detailed response.

 

Secondly, thank you to all those who have given reactions; I know how good modellers you all are so it is very encouraging.

 

Let me just show how I made the down platform.

 

 

 

You see literally three pieces of ply; glued together.  The bottom one already made has a top of cork, rough side up to simulate gravel, and painted with cream emulsion, then grey while the cream was still wet.  (If I remember rightly it was Coachman who advised to do it like this.)  It will be in two parts, and there will be a crease where the join is but the down shelter will but the join so strategically placed people will have to hide it.  It is solid as it is planned to fix the platform to the edge and so it need to be sturdy.  I have not thought how to make it removable but the shelter will be.  It is starring at the top of a display cabinet at the moment, with 009 coaches and an engine, but mostly my wife's rock collection.   Here is the Down Shelter on a base of cork.

 

 

 

Here is a track plan with the Up platform sketched in.

 

 

 

The red rectangle is a footbridge.  It is too wide and the left hand side may be different.  I will have to get some A4 paper, taped together and mark out the shape and size, but this may mean clearing the table and drawing on a more general plan.  There is no point doing it from this plot as I am sure I have laid the track slightly differently.  It may also mean actually building the station building to get its size.  The left hand end has a platform mounted Goods Shed, similar to the one at Newton, so that end could well be different.  You see there is plenty of scope for different modelling methods.  The squares are an inch so it is about two squares too wide, but the length is correct.

 

As an aside, the down platform is plenty long enough, but I may struggle on the Up side.  However, the Cambrian was not adverse to pulling up for half the train, then pulling forward for the other half.  I can also see if there are not a lot of wagons in the goods road on the left that the trains will set back there.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

Edited June 13, 2023 by ChrisN

[Mikkel]

Oh goody, a bay platform. I can just picture your short coaches in there (rubs hands).

[corneliuslundie]

Ah, Newtown down platform shelter before someone removed the windows. Nice.

Jonathan