Traeth Mawr -Building Mr Price's house , (mostly)

[corneliuslundie]

That's OK. There is a photo in the WRRC Mike Lloyd collection which will be used in the second volume of Cambrian drawings so you probably have about five years to wait for it.

Jonathan

[NCB]

2 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

This is the observation car. You really need it to call at Traeth Mawr.

 

But of course no Gresley Pacific would ever be allowed across Barmouth Bridge.

Jonathan

 

Well, an LMS pacific did, Princess Margaret Rose in 1975. But the GWR did strengthen the bridge.

 

Nigel

[MikeOxon]

21 hours ago, ChrisN said:

......What is noticeable is that there is a large gap between the coaches and the platform in the centre of the curve.  What is also noticeable is that it does not matter how long the bogie coach is, it is the swing at the end that defines how far away the platform is.  This may just look too much I may just shape it to the four wheelers and leave the bogies to go over the top of the platform.  This is not exactly satisfactory, but how it is now is not either...

 

Memo to yourself - design layout so that station is on straight track

[ChrisN]

45 minutes ago, MikeOxon said:

Memo to yourself - design layout so that station is on straight track

 

Mike,

It is difficult to have a bay platform without curves.  If I had another ten feet then perhaps it would be possible, but where would the fun be if it was simple?

[corneliuslundie]

You are right about the observation cars. There were two. so one each way each day.

If possible the best way to design a layout is so that the gap between the carriages and the platform cannot be seen by observers. OK except that at exhibitions usually the operators are behind the layout and the viewers are in front so the operators see the "gap". But it works for a permanent layout -such as David Jenkinson's Garsdale Road,. His book "Modelling historic railways" is where I think I read the advice. And anyway, that doesn't work if the bay has a platform both sides.

Jonathan

[NCB]

On 13/10/2021 at 17:45, corneliuslundie said:

That's OK. There is a photo in the WRRC Mike Lloyd collection which will be used in the second volume of Cambrian drawings so you probably have about five years to wait for it.

Jonathan

 

A question, Jonathan. I've seen a press release for the first WRRC Cambrian drawings book (great news; my piggy bank is about to be raided ), which I believe relates to Cambrian & GWR structures. Does that mean there are still two Cambrian drawings books to come out, or just one?

 

Thanks

Nigel

[corneliuslundie]

We are planning two volumes of locomotive and rolling stock drawings, one for the period up to 1892 (and locomotives built before then but rebuilt later) and the second covering after that.

The first part is three quarters complete but I need some drawings from various sources which I have not yet been able to get because of Covid.

The second volume is under way and I am gradually redrawing drawings which are not good enough to publish.

As with the other books, the basis is the Mike Lloyd/Trefor Jones drawings but they are much less complete than for the Rhymney and Barry so they are being supplemented by drawings from other sources.

(One is the observation car drawing which I have recently completed for part 2. I am currently trying to make sense of a very detailed but faint drawing of one of the Mawddwy Railway carriages.)

What is proving difficult for both volumes is the goods vehicle listings, as our knowledge is very incomplete and the Cambrian seems to have revised its designs frequently (three different versions of the single balcony brake van within a few years, and that is without those with a longer wheelbase). Also, none of the Cambrian drawings have dates or vehicle numbers. All good fun.

The structure drawings book should be available before the end of the month. Then there will be no excuse for a Cambrian layout without a Dutton signal box! I'll post in the Books section here when it is delivered.

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

2 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

We are planning two volumes of locomotive and rolling stock drawings, one for the period up to 1892 (and locomotives built before then but rebuilt later) and the second covering after that.

The first part is three quarters complete but I need some drawings from various sources which I have not yet been able to get because of Covid.

The second volume is under way and I am gradually redrawing drawings which are not good enough to publish.

As with the other books, the basis is the Mike Lloyd/Trefor Jones drawings but they are much less complete than for the Rhymney and Barry so they are being supplemented by drawings from other sources.

(One is the observation car drawing which I have recently completed for part 2. I am currently trying to make sense of a very detailed but faint drawing of one of the Mawddwy Railway carriages.)

What is proving difficult for both volumes is the goods vehicle listings, as our knowledge is very incomplete and the Cambrian seems to have revised its designs frequently (three different versions of the single balcony brake van within a few years, and that is without those with a longer wheelbase). Also, none of the Cambrian drawings have dates or vehicle numbers. All good fun.

The structure drawings book should be available before the end of the month. Then there will be no excuse for a Cambrian layout without a Dutton signal box! I'll post in the Books section here when it is delivered.

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

That is good news.  It is already on my provisional Christmas list.  Fortunately I have not done too many structures for it to show me that i have done them all wrong.  

 

Does it have houses as well as station buildings, signal boxes, etc?

[corneliuslundie]

No houses, I am afraid. I don't think Mike ever drew any. A bridge or two, a tunnel mouth, the traversers and turntables at Aberdovey, a loading gauge and several other small items, plus station buildings and signal boxes. About a third of the book is GWR or GWR period structures on the Cambrian.

And definitely not Traeth Mawr station building or any of the similar ones, I am afraid.

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

3 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

No houses, I am afraid. I don't think Mike ever drew any. A bridge or two, a tunnel mouth, the traversers and turntables at Aberdovey, a loading gauge and several other small items, plus station buildings and signal boxes. About a third of the book is GWR or GWR period structures on the Cambrian.

And definitely not Traeth Mawr station building or any of the similar ones, I am afraid.

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

Thank you.  It will be very interesting, especially the signal boxes, even if I have to take a different one than Traeth Mawr.

 

I am not surprised he did not draw any structures.  It was by , or sometime early in the 60s the main building had gone and the down platform was left with the shelter and it was renamed 'Beach Halt'.  By the time you visited Barmouth it was not on the timetables, so they could say no one used it and finally close it.  It did survive until 1982 when the girls school closed.

[ChrisN]

I was struck earlier by this picture of the staff at Barmouth.  What struck me was that the man next to the Station Master was the W.H. Smith retailer.  The Smith's retailers were included on several old Cambrian photos.  This made me wonder if I should try and include a Smith's at Traeth Mawr.  If so where could I put it?  The platform is not big enough for a kiosk.  Here is the station building plan.

 

 

 

 

I did wonder about taking half of the Parcels and Porters room, but it is only 16ft x 10, and I am sure Edward Richards, the Parcels and Foreman Porter would have something to say about it, likewise if I took half of the Ticket office, young Price would not be happy, although I am not sure who operates the telegraph.  I suppose a kiosk in the car park, station entrance might be a possibility.

 

I was reading Coast Lines of the Cambrian Railways Vol1 and on page 208, there is a picture of a crowded platform, with two lads holding what looks like ice cream trays that usherettes had at cinemas but containing books, ready, apparently, when everyone had got on to sell them the books through the door windows.  It stated that the picture was c1920.  I doubted this as the lads both had Eton Collars and everyone was wearing pre war fashions.  I then looked at the next page and there was a picture of the strike on the Cambrian in 1919, and they were wearing exactly the same fashions, so it seems likely that fashions did not change very quickly in mis Wales.  (All the skirts were very long and none of the shorter ones, (four inches above the ankle), that were becoming common.  (Sorry, the pictures are copyright and I cannot find copies on the web.)

 

So, leaving discussions about fashions aside, Traeth Mawr, obviously needs a Smiths, and it needs a lad to offer books and papers for sale to travellers, either once they have boarded their train, or as passengers leave.  (A couple of trains hang around for 5 and ten minutes so chance of a sale there too.)   

 

So, kiosk, where, and if outside what type, and a suitable lad for modifying.

Edited March 5, 2023 by ChrisN

[Nick Gough]

Would you have room to incorporate a kiosk below the footbridge steps?

Perhaps with a brick structure similar to under Barmouth's steps.

 

Failing that a separate kiosk on the station forecourt.

 

Kidderminster (SVR) has this:

http://www.gw-svr-a.org.uk/images/kidder-50_600px.jpg

I'm sure that could easily be shortened.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Nick Gough

[corneliuslundie]

Not an answer to your question, but I don't know if you have seen this old postcard which I came across on my hard drive yesterday (and thought of you of course).

 

My wife and I were also discussing the tall building behind the bay platform building with the fancy balconies. Anyone know when it was given a makeover and lost the balconies?

(Photos in the Past and Present volume)

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

On 17/10/2021 at 09:37, Nick Gough said:

Would you have room to incorporate a kiosk below the footbridge steps?

Perhaps with a brick structure similar to under Barmouth's steps.

 

Failing that a separate kiosk on the station forecourt.

 

Kidderminster (SVR) has this:

http://www.gw-svr-a.org.uk/images/kidder-50_600px.jpg

I'm sure that could easily be shortened.

 

Nick,

Thank you.  The footbridge is right at the end of the platform and is not where people would just go or walk past..  I think a kiosk outside would work.  The only issue is that it is down the toilet end of the building, although looking again just now, the toilet will probably be a lot smaller than I first thought., so it may well be between the Station Master's office and a window in the third class refreshment room.  The site is 14 scale feet.  This Metcalfe kit looks quite nice, but it would need to blend in properly, and it looks like a structure for under a canopy.

 

Is the structure at Kidderminster, wooden or steel?  I could do a brick one, and have removeable wooden shutters.  It would need a slightly sloping roof.  Of course, not from back to front as that would soak anyone trying to buy anything, as the rain came over the gutter.

 

As for lads.  There is a paperboy in the  Preiser 1900 unpainted figures that I have but 1) he is waving his papers about so may not be ideal for a platform, and 2) he has donated his hat top of his head to this young lady.

 

 

 

I have a second pack that I could use if I really wanted.  Other than that I think the only option is Andy Stadden's lad on the left, but of course he has his hand in his pocket.  Grr.  Not sure I could get it out as it is pewter.  I could possibly use the one next to him.  All other schoolboy type figures are not really suitable.  Langley do some reasonable schoolgirls but their schoolboys are one of their newer sets so not as good.  I shall keep on looking.

Edited March 5, 2023 by ChrisN

[ChrisN]

7 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

Not an answer to your question, but I don't know if you have seen this old postcard which I came across on my hard drive yesterday (and thought of you of course).

 

My wife and I were also discussing the tall building behind the bay platform building with the fancy balconies. Anyone know when it was given a makeover and lost the balconies?

(Photos in the Past and Present volume)

Jonathan

 

Jonathan, 

Thank you.  It is a strange train.  I have just noticed where the telegraph wires come in, interesting.

 

In the Barmouth Album of the Railways on this page there are some pictures of the building in question with scaffolding around it and dated, one 1963, the other 64, plus a picture with no scaffolding or balconies dated 1964.  I think I have the right building.

[Nick Gough]

Judging by these photos Kidderminster kiosk is wood:

http://www.gw-svr-a.org.uk/images/kidder44_600px.jpg

http://www.gw-svr-a.org.uk/images/kidder43_600px.jpg

[Northroader]

https://anticsonline.uk/Product/Metcalfe-PO517-Platform-Kiosk-Card-Kit-OO_N1216299

[Compound2632]

Then you'll be needing to find authentic newspaper headlines for the day your model is set...

[Simond]

Or, given the time/distance from London, perhaps the day before…

[ChrisN]

4 hours ago, Nick Gough said:

Judging by these photos Kidderminster kiosk is wood:

http://www.gw-svr-a.org.uk/images/kidder44_600px.jpg

http://www.gw-svr-a.org.uk/images/kidder43_600px.jpg

 

2 hours ago, Northroader said:

https://anticsonline.uk/Product/Metcalfe-PO517-Platform-Kiosk-Card-Kit-OO_N1216299

 

Nick,

Yes it does appear to be wood, but it is under a canopy, mine would be outside.  

 

The Metcalfe kit does look interesting but again I think it would need to be under a canopy.  Also, it is only 15mm deep; is that the depth with the counter or without?  Is it large enough for someone to stand inside?  Is there a door on the other side?  Moreover, is there a diagram in the forthcoming book?  (Probably not.)

[ChrisN]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

Then you'll be needing to find authentic newspaper headlines for the day your model is set...

 

This sounds like a job to do when I am not modelling, although I have googled Traeth Mawr Trumpet and have not found any useful results.

 

49 minutes ago, Simond said:

Or, given the time/distance from London, perhaps the day before…

 

Is/was the first edition ready by midnight?  If so they would be at Traeth Mawr by lunchtime or maybe mid morning.  Now there is the Manchester Guardian, and I am sure that in a constituency that regularly returns a Liberal MP then they may sell a few copies.  Again, whether they could get there for breakfast is doubtful, but probably earlier in the morning than the papers from London. 

[corneliuslundie]

In the early 1970s the papers would have arrived in Shrewsbury from London in time for the train arriving at Barmouth in good time for breakfast time, so a few minutes later at Traeth Mawr.

I know because I once caught it. A first generation DMU with about two passengers and lots of mail and papers.

I suspect that that was the case eighty years earlier, Certainly in 1921 the "Passengers and Mail" arrived at Machynlleth at 5.49 and arrived at Barmouth at 7.08.

Re the kiosk, I suspect that the counter was about 2 ft deep with a space of 4 or 5 feet behind that for the staff, say 28 mm in 4mm/ft. But there may well have been a storage space behind that. Certainly 15 mm only allows for the counter and some very thin staff.

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

The platform is progressing slowly, and I have been a good boy and only searched the internet for information when it was not modelling time.  Also, I popped into my local model shop and bought some Rocket glue, but more of that another time.  They had every Metcalf kit except the Kiosk, but at least that stops me being distracted from the platform and building.

 

One thing I have been thinking about is the Gentlemen's toilet in the station.  The plan I have made is this.

 

Station Plan for web.xlsx

 

Like this it would be 16ft x 9ft which may be a little large.  However, if the wall was taken to end side of the window nearest the wall it would only be 3ft wide, which is not impossible, but is a little tight.  (A latrine one end and a toilet the other with a washbasin in the middle, or perhaps just in the toilet, I do not remember washbasins in latrines, butI have not been in an old proper smelly latrine for years.)  What I need are pictures of the two windows nearest the end to see if they are frosted.  The only ones I have seen of that end are from @NCB after it was almost derelict, so although the pictures are great, in this case they are not a lot of help.  C. C. Green took pictures at the end of the 50s but was standing opposite the middle of the building so the windows at the end are not clear.  I mean I cannot see them, not that they are frosted.  

 

So, does anybody know how large the toilet was?  The Third Class passengers will be very grateful, as it may mean they can have another 13 ft in their refreshment room.

 

Thank you in advance, and if you have been, thanks for looking.

Edited October 22, 2021 by ChrisN

[Nick Gough]

I can't find anything helpful in any of my Cambrian related books.

 

Have you considered an enquiry with the Network Rail archive to see whether they have any plans for the building?

[ChrisN]

1 hour ago, Nick Gough said:

I can't find anything helpful in any of my Cambrian related books.

 

Have you considered an enquiry with the Network Rail archive to see whether they have any plans for the building?

 

Nick,

Thank you.  No I have not, although following your link to it I did search some structures, but cannot remember which.  I shall have another look.