richbrummitt Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Duncan. said: Looking good already John. Excuse my ignorance, did these locos carry fire irons? Where were they stored? Cheers Duncan Usually on hooks on the rear of the bunker. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killybegs Posted July 13, 2020 Author Share Posted July 13, 2020 On the back of the bunker where there are four brackets. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blandford1969 Posted July 14, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 14, 2020 20 hours ago, richbrummitt said: Usually on hooks on the rear of the bunker. Yes, apart from the pricker bar which has a channel which often hangs from a hook on the firemans side roof and a dart which has a channel across the back of the cab inside which it goes inside. They tend to be the two you would go for on the road to sort things out. 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TrevorP1 Posted July 14, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 14, 2020 I've seen a few photos of panniers with the firing shovel stuck vertically in the top bunker handrail on the fireman's side. No doubt frowned on by officialdom but there is nowhere to keep the firing shovel out of the way when it's not being used. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 I guess it was a spare. I don’t think there was enough time when it wasn’t being used to park it in a handrail... atb Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Holt Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 (edited) Another very nice looking loco to join your stud, John. Look forward to seeing it weathered. Dave. Edited July 16, 2020 by Dave Holt Spelling correction 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killybegs Posted July 15, 2020 Author Share Posted July 15, 2020 Thanks Dave. She's now been joined by her sister. Both due for weathering shortly. 12 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killybegs Posted July 15, 2020 Author Share Posted July 15, 2020 After looking at a great many photos of pannier tank bunkers, it would seem that less than half carried shovels on the hooks, even fewer carried prickers there and the occasional bucket was to be seen. Interesting. What was the principal use of the long handled shovel carried on the bunker, I don't think it would be for firing as it's too long. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJCT Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 44 minutes ago, Killybegs said: After looking at a great many photos of pannier tank bunkers, it would seem that less than half carried shovels on the hooks, even fewer carried prickers there and the occasional bucket was to be seen. Interesting. What was the principal use of the long handled shovel carried on the bunker, I don't think it would be for firing as it's too long. Isn't it for shovelling out the fire at the end of the day for locos without a rocking- or drop-grate ? Alasdair 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blandford1969 Posted July 15, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 15, 2020 3 hours ago, AJCT said: Isn't it for shovelling out the fire at the end of the day for locos without a rocking- or drop-grate ? Alasdair It is, but if you could / can get it through the bars without having to use it then all the better, The shovels are a pain to use. In the past there are lots of stories about shortages of fire irons so they would have taken what they had. The pricker and the bar with an angle (brain has failed) are the ones of choice and tend to live in the cab. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killybegs Posted July 15, 2020 Author Share Posted July 15, 2020 4 hours ago, AJCT said: Isn't it for shovelling out the fire at the end of the day for locos without a rocking- or drop-grate ? Alasdair If that's the case, why carry it around on the loco all day? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJCT Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Killybegs said: If that's the case, why carry it around on the loco all day? Well, as Blandford implies, you'd want to be sure of having it available at the end of the day. Many years ago I did a few Trainee Fireman turns on a heritage railway and there was occasionally also a need during the shift to rake over the fire, to break up clinker and drop the ash through the bars into the ashpan. Most modern tender engines (eg the BR Standards) had a fire-iron rack or "tunnel" in the tender accessible from the footplate, though accessing the irons and turning them end-for-end to insert into the firebox could be unwieldy in the cab. The pic shows the rack on my rewheeled Bachmann WD (247 Developments etching, I think). HTH... Alasdair Edited July 15, 2020 by AJCT Correction 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 The GW had the sense to fit a fire iron tunnel alongside the firebox on tender locos, so (outside the loading gauge) reversal of the irons was not necessary. I’m surprised it wasn’t more common. atb Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blandford1969 Posted July 15, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 15, 2020 3 hours ago, Killybegs said: If that's the case, why carry it around on the loco all day? Simple they are heavy and if you don't need to move it, you don't. The law of sod says if you did not have it you would need it. They are useful for getting a baffle out of the box when its fallen in. Then would come the questions of why did you take it off and leave it behind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenW Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 14 hours ago, Killybegs said: If that's the case, why carry it around on the loco all day? Mostly because you might need it out on the road. If your fire got clinkered up and wouldn't drop through the bars then the engine wouldn't steam properly, affecting your ability to do the job. If that happens and the clinker won't go through the rocking grate/drop section (happens more often than it ought to!) then the only way to get the rubbish out is to use the clinker shovel. I'm a fireman on a preserved railway & sadly speak from experience... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killybegs Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 Thanks for all the info on use of shovels. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAB Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 If you lose the injector or or suffer any other low-water situation from whatever cause - and there are many - and drop a plug, you need the rake and the clinker shovel, you need them fast and you don't bvgg@er about making use of them! If you hang about scratching your head and fail to get the fire out in time, the dropped crown which is likely to result will kill you, your driver and possibly many others. THAT is the reason such things are always carried!! Trick question - how many "Ducheses" suffered a dropped firebox crown? Answer - there were three incidents of a dropped corwns on Duchesses. BUT two of them were the same loco (Princess Alexandra), and occured within a mile of each other 8 years apart. These three incidents were one third of the 9 low-water explosions to UK railway locos in the 20th century. And in case anyone thinks it "hardly ever" happened or is a thing of the past, the last fatal steam loco accident in Europe was a dropped crown in November 1977 at Bitterfeld in East Germany. The loco was a replacement after the crew droppped the plug on their previous mount (yes really!) Nine dead and 50 injured. Perhaps some idiot had left the clinker shovel behind Great modelling - very well done and many thanks for the thread. 1 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TrevorP1 Posted July 16, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 16, 2020 24 minutes ago, BenW said: Mostly because you might need it out on the road. If your fire got clinkered up and wouldn't drop through the bars then the engine wouldn't steam properly, affecting your ability to do the job. If that happens and the clinker won't go through the rocking grate/drop section (happens more often than it ought to!) then the only way to get the rubbish out is to use the clinker shovel. I'm a fireman on a preserved railway & sadly speak from experience... Yes. I know a chap who is a current main line fireman. No names, no loco ID but he once took over a large Pacific with the fire already in bad shape with clinker. Inevitably it got worse. The rocking grate wasn’t much use so they ended up stopping at the earliest possible location and had to resort to paddling out lumps of clinker with the dumping shovel. Hot, difficult and potentially hazardous work but it saved the day. I don’t think any crew ‘back in the day’ would, even if allowed, go off shed without a clinker shovel. Double injector failure on an engine with no drop grate? It’s happened. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killybegs Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 Back to the panniers in question. They are now out of the weathering booth, still masked off. Next phase of weathering will be carried out with powders. 15 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrowroad Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Nice job John. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted July 16, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 16, 2020 Those panniers deserve some buckets https://albionyard.wordpress.com/2013/01/31/buckets-of-nothing/ I never did a write up on them, but they can be formed using a 2mm drill or similar as a rolling pin. Available from Hannants in the Uk too 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted July 17, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 17, 2020 11 hours ago, barrowroad said: Nice job John. Indeed John. What is your preferred mix? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killybegs Posted July 17, 2020 Author Share Posted July 17, 2020 I use Humbrol matt enamels thinned with Precision Fast air drying thinners. The mix is mostly 32 with just a dash each of 33 and 186. This reproduces pretty much the same affect as Railmatch Weathered Black enamel which I don't seem to be able to get hold of these days. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Killybegs Posted July 18, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted July 18, 2020 I suppose I had better get on and make some fire irons and a bucket now! 35 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Killybegs Posted August 5, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 5, 2020 Getting there with the 16T minerals. Buffers and couplings fitted and insides painted. Now just the small task of numbering them all! 24 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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