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Passenger and parcels stock for Camden


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Thank you.

 

The 68' D1938 Restaurant Car M250M looks like this now:

 

post-10140-0-25089400-1418559567_thumb.jpg

 

I've just put an order together for Comet/Wizard that includes an etched 68' underframe. The donor one warped slightly where I fitted plastic to cover the cutouts in the solebars. I'll build that and then fit these bogies, frost the windows in the kitchen end and it will be ready to be weathered.

 

One of the old Airfix conversions close-up, completed except for weathering:

 

post-10140-0-97490600-1418559790_thumb.jpg

 

post-10140-0-90642700-1418559805_thumb.jpg

 

I'm quite pleased with these and I think they will look better still with some dirt.

 

I'm still very unsure about this one:

 

post-10140-0-73540100-1418559841_thumb.jpg

 

I painted it with red primer and 3 coats of Vauxhall Carmine Red or whatever the shade that is recommended for plain crimson on an old Period I BG like this. It looks like it's sponsored by Rickie Fowler. Or Tango.

 

Shall I just paint it plain maroon and disguise it a bit with weathering?

 

Picked up 3 of these for a few pounds:

 

post-10140-0-22021200-1418560031_thumb.jpg

 

One of the older Bachmann Pd I CKs - this is supposed to be a D1694 I think. Can't be certain how accurate it is, although it looks roughly plausible apart from the glazing and lining. The final one of these was withdrawn in Nov 61 so I guess they were on their last legs in the period I'm modelling. I think these will pass muster as fillers in a passing train. Maybe when they are detailed and weathered a bit at least. The underframe, apart from the vacuum cylinder, and bogies are half reasonable.

 

Anyone have any views on:

 

The colour of the BG?

Any of the formations I have put together above?

Ventilators for the D1850 shallow window BCK?

 

Plus another question - can suburban trains include both ex LMS non corridor and mk1 non-corridor stock?

 

As ever, advice and criticism are both very gratefully received.

 

Thanks,

 

Iain

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Thank you.

 

The 68' D1938 Restaurant Car M250M looks like this now:

 

attachicon.gifimage.jpg

 

I've just put an order together for Comet/Wizard that includes an etched 68' underframe. The donor one warped slightly where I fitted plastic to cover the cutouts in the solebars. I'll build that and then fit these bogies, frost the windows in the kitchen end and it will be ready to be weathered.

 

One of the old Airfix conversions close-up, completed except for weathering:

 

attachicon.gifimage.jpg

 

attachicon.gifimage.jpg

 

I'm quite pleased with these and I think they will look better still with some dirt.

 

I'm still very unsure about this one:

 

attachicon.gifimage.jpg

 

I painted it with red primer and 3 coats of Vauxhall Carmine Red or whatever the shade that is recommended for plain crimson on an old Period I BG like this. It looks like it's sponsored by Rickie Fowler. Or Tango.

 

Shall I just paint it plain maroon and disguise it a bit with weathering?

 

Picked up 3 of these for a few pounds:

 

attachicon.gifimage.jpg

 

One of the older Bachmann Pd I CKs - this is supposed to be a D1694 I think. Can't be certain how accurate it is, although it looks roughly plausible apart from the glazing and lining. The final one of these was withdrawn in Nov 61 so I guess they were on their last legs in the period I'm modelling. I think these will pass muster as fillers in a passing train. Maybe when they are detailed and weathered a bit at least. The underframe, apart from the vacuum cylinder, and bogies are half reasonable.

 

Anyone have any views on:

 

The colour of the BG?

Any of the formations I have put together above?

Ventilators for the D1850 shallow window BCK?

 

Plus another question - can suburban trains include both ex LMS non corridor and mk1 non-scored or stock?

 

As ever, advice and criticism are both very gratefully received.

 

Thanks,

 

Iain

 

Iain,

 

The BG will be fine provided that it's intended for the early 50s or, if later, you weather it heavily.

 

For my 1961 depiction of carmine, I use Halfords red primer for NPCS stock; and airbrushed Phoenix (ex-Cherry) Faded Crimson plus Phoenix Coach Cream for 'Blood & Custard'.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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Thanks John - I will continue and it will be fairly heavily weathered in the end. I was thinking of depicting an example that had not been repainted for some time, but I don't have many colour photos of mundane coaching and non-passenger stock, so advice on here is much appreciated.

 

Thanks Metr0land. I've seen a few examples like that on other lines but was searching for a few suburban or stopping services on the old LNWR line. I think most services that went as far as Watford were DC electric so I suppose the services I am after would be to Bletchley or somewhere just a bit further out than Watford. Much of the research I've done so far seems to point to no real pattern at all to the suburban formations - they just used whatever they had in whatever formation.

 

Now, that Coronation Scot RFO is not in fact an RFO. Sorry to everyone though - I must apologise that I misled you by not measuring it, and since it is actually 57', it looks as if it might in fact be a TO to D1904/1981. A handful of these had the same pressure ventilation cover for the Coronation Scot. So I hope I will now put the right roof fittings on it.....

 

Iain

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There were some non-corridor sets known as "Euston-Watford" sets - about 8 of them if I recall correctly - which as you surmise worked the outer suburbans to Watford and beyond, eg Tring.  There are few clues to their composition other than photos plus the odd snippet in ancient issues of the Railway Observer but one oddity that was to be found for a while was a BR standard long suburban third allocated to the Western Region.

 

Chris

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Thanks Metr0land. I've seen a few examples like that on other lines but was searching for a few suburban or stopping services on the old LNWR line. I think most services that went as far as Watford were DC electric so I suppose the services I am after would be to Bletchley or somewhere just a bit further out than Watford. Much of the research I've done so far seems to point to no real pattern at all to the suburban formations - they just used whatever they had in whatever formation.

 

 

 

Iain

 

I've def seen pics of mixed LM/BR suburbans (as confrimed by chrisf) but I the only 'London Suburban' one I could find quickly was the one I posted.  My memory like chrisf is they would have been used on Bletchley/Tring workings for sure.

 

Edit:  A few for starters:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/6622128455/in/set-72157621174728515

https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/8727845085/in/set-72157621174728515

https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/5674904473/in/set-72157621174728515

https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/4395407827/in/set-72157621174728515

Edited by Metr0Land
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Thanks Chris and Metr0, very useful indeed. Chris - if you do come across anything in Railway Observer, and can direct me to any info, I'd be very grateful. Interested that there is a 64'6" mk1 sub lurking somewhere.

 

My embryonic skills of recognition tell me that for this one:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/4395407827/in/set-72157621174728515

 

It goes something like:

Mk1 BS

2 x ex LMS pd3 (thirds?)

2 x ex LMS pd2

2 x can't see that well but ex LMS?

 

The Bletchley picture with 41222 I guess may not have come from or got to Euston but looks like mk1 brake third, pd3 third or is that a compo(?), and a pd3 BTK.

 

Both the 2-6-4 tanks in these links are still on early crests too.

 

Realistically, I think for the moment I will try to put together an up and a down local of 7-8 coaches each.

 

Thanks again for the help and interest.

 

Iain

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The RO has yielded a few possibly helpful snippets.  The WR Mk 1 suburban W46007, was observed in October 1956 and the balance of probability is that it had made good its escape well before the period being depicted.

 

Rather more useful is the following:

 

#  The "Euston - Watford" sets comprised 12 sets [EW1 - EW12] each of 7 coaches comprising mostly Stanier or Fairburn stock.

 

#  The BSL already modelled, M25268M, was observed in an EW set in July 1958.  One such coach, probably the same one as there were only 25, was photographed on Camden bank in August 1959 behind 80065 by the late A E "Dusty" Durrant.  A print may be had from Jeremy Suter.

 

#  In set EW4 second M12005M was still in crimson livery in mid 1962.

 

#  BS M20581M was still running in EW8 in mid 1962 despite carrying a scrapping date of 1961.

 

#  The book "The Colour of British Rail Vol 1 - Diesel Pioneers" [Robert Stephens, Atlantic Publications] contains a fine colour pic by J G Dewing from 4th June 1962 of 10000 at the head of the 5.25 pm Euston - Northampton comprising 7 assorted non-corridors - four lined maroon, three unlined maroon - and assisted in rear by what looks like a Class 24.

 

Yes, I know that there are many more pieces of the jigsaw to be shaken from the box.  What appeared in the RO was a mix of editorial judgment and random submissions but it's better than nothing!

 

Chris

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Thank you very much Chris, that's very useful indeed.

 

I'll definitely leave out the lone WR long suburban on that basis. I probably don't need any more oddities on the layout anyway!

The prospect of a few unlined maroon subs is good - lining with that many ventilators, hinges, door stops and handles takes me ages.

I have 3 unlined crimson mk1s - I fear these will need to be in lined maroon though.

 

I'd settled upon 7 non-corridors as a good length to model for the two outer suburban sets that I will do, given a bit more browsing. So your info not only confirms this, but adds some very helpful details.

 

Rod Steele's book shows the odd mixed train of corridor and non-corridor ex-LMS stock, which seem to be stopping trains to places like Northampton. Again, few noticeable details though.

 

Thanks again,

 

Iain

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There was a film posted on Model Railway Express (www.mremag.com)  a couple of weeks ago taken in the early days of electrification around places like Hemel Hempstead. Most of the suburban trains were diesel hauled and the film does give some fascinating glimpses of the coaching stock, which seemed largely still to consist of ex LMS non-corridor stock

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I am very impressed by your coaches, Iain. You have tried lots of different techniques and got some great results. You certainly have a great deal of patience. I have been repairing and refinishing an old Kitmaster Mk1 plus building a Stanier first class coach from my box of bits. I don't know if I will ever be able to do any more!

 

Dave

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  • 2 months later...

Have made a bit of progress over the past few weeks with the odd hour here and there.

 

This one is just cheating:

 

post-10140-0-45620900-1425077226_thumb.jpg

 

post-10140-0-84313100-1425077241_thumb.jpg

 

Sneakily picked up for £8.21 off eBay. Missing one bogie and a footstep. Couplings, Bachmann bogies added and a sliver of plasticard, and it is ready to be weathered - as one of very few C&C coaches on the layout in its prime period of 60-62, it will probably need to look a bit down at heel.

 

Restaurant Car:

 

The original donor underframe mated with a banana and I needed to build a proper brass one. To use these bogies (actually pretty good and run well with Gibsons in there):

 

post-10140-0-39291600-1425077659_thumb.jpg

 

I needed to find a way of attaching them. Complicated by the fact that the attachment is very tight to the centre axle. Not saying it was the only way but I decided to carve out the bearing from the plastic underframe and use that.

 

post-10140-0-76329200-1425077630_thumb.jpg

 

post-10140-0-24315500-1425077641_thumb.jpg

 

post-10140-0-83059100-1425077614_thumb.jpg

 

Added the frosted effect to the kitchen windows:

 

post-10140-0-50358000-1425077600_thumb.jpg

 

post-10140-0-56986500-1425077567_thumb.jpg

 

Underframes primed and roofs painted:

 

post-10140-0-44340800-1425077986_thumb.jpg

 

post-10140-0-54112000-1425078007_thumb.jpg

 

Diag 1906 Pd III non-corridor 3rd:

 

This is going to be Comet sides on the remnants of the disastrous attempt at a cut-and-shut T from 2 Dapol CLs. It does also add a pd III vehicle too.

 

Roof being made into a Stanier roof. Nearly, at least.

 

post-10140-0-06805700-1425078339_thumb.jpg

 

post-10140-0-35353200-1425078885_thumb.jpg

 

Sides:

 

post-10140-0-09800700-1425078058_thumb.jpg

 

post-10140-0-95070400-1425078073_thumb.jpg

 

post-10140-0-66451000-1425078103_thumb.jpg

 

There are 54 hinges, 18 T handles, 18 grab handles and 18 drop lights in that lot.....! Suddenly later glazing seems not quite as bad as it did!

 

And with 1 coat of Crimson over red primer:

 

post-10140-0-94521300-1425078021_thumb.jpg

 

Iain

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  • 3 months later...

A quick update:

 

I've completed a few coaches including weathering etc

 

The C&C Stanier FK:

 

post-10140-0-48064000-1432836978_thumb.jpg

 

The 12 wheel dining car which has lingered for so long:

 

post-10140-0-93111200-1432837032_thumb.jpg

 

One of 5 pd2 non-corridors:

 

post-10140-0-13147300-1432837101_thumb.jpg

 

post-10140-0-05283700-1432837110_thumb.jpg

 

post-10140-0-02416900-1432837119_thumb.jpg

 

These have also been a lot of work but they do make for quite a decent model in the end. Pity is the lavs were relatively rare.

 

Iain

 

Edit as I clicked the wrong button

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Thanks David, I'll set that up as soon as I can. I've been renumbering, adding couplings and (re - in some cases) weathering a load of Mk1 coaches to create some representative rakes. I'll get Sir Bill on the front of one of those.

 

I've also done some work to some Mk1 non-corridors:

 

Ugly Bachmann underframe in dire need of improvement.

 

post-10140-0-94979700-1432847841_thumb.jpg

 

Replica components replacing various bits that lost an argument with the Xurons

 

post-10140-0-21855100-1432847971_thumb.jpg

 

Two more complete except for some fine-tuning of the weathering and a final coat or two of Klear.

 

post-10140-0-86030700-1432848004_thumb.jpg

 

post-10140-0-90734600-1432848024_thumb.jpg

 

post-10140-0-80596300-1432848015_thumb.jpg

 

I think you can see the difference between the one I bought with flush glaze already fitted, and the other one that I've laserglazed.

 

Iain

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Hi Iain, I've been doing much the same as you with some Bachmann BR non corridors.  The Replica brake gear parts do make a worthwhile improvement to the appearance of the underframes.  If you're doing a Brake 2nd, you can use one of the battery box mouldings from the same sprue to reposition the one on one side, so that they're both towards the brake van end.  I've also used Lazerglaze and while it does bring a huge improvement to the appearance of the body, I initially found it hard to get on with.  The first three I did were coaches I'd repainted, and I found I needed to sand down each pane to get it to fit!  I'm currently doing a fourth, which I haven't needed to repaint and find the Lazerglaze fits beautifully on this one - evidently the thickness of the paint I'd used (from Halfords' aerosols) had been enough to make the apertures too small!

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Hi Steve,

 

Thanks.

I've only done seconds and compos so far, but that's a good tip and I will bear it in mind, thanks.

I found the same issue with the laser glaze on the Dapol and Airfix LMS subs that I'd painted, but I've kept the Bachmann livery on the two mk1s I've done so far. I slightly lazily left the flush glaze in one as it is glued in very firmly. But with about 5 coats of Klear to fill the gaps I think it will be fine in the end.

 

Iain

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  • 4 months later...

Thank you Phil, very kind.

 

I thought I'd posted a reply to your post in haste the other day but it appears not to have registered, so many apologies for that. I remember you'd asked a question about using Comet sides on Airfix/Dapol shells and underframes with Comet fittings, and using the Bachmann LMS bogies?

 

I don't know whether it's the best or cheapest way to build half decent ex-LMS stock, but if you choose the right donor coach I think it's definitely possible to build good representations pretty cheaply, and more importantly for some, genuinely fun to build something. The Airfix/Dapol 60' LMS underframe is certainly very useful (I've still to finish the one in this thread) though the 57' underframe is now (a) generic and (b ) not actually right for anything, so it will need a bit of butchering whatever you use it for. Hopefully at some point I can finish a couple of these that I have on the go and you can see whether it was worth it. As always, I got a lot of advice and inspiration from Larry's old threads.

 

Hope that helps and do ask any further questions. I'll try not to be so useless at answering!

 

Best wishes,

 

Iain

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Thanks mate. Yes I too think the 60' bits are good. In short the trains that these coaches will appear in are WR diversions up/down the SR mainline east of Exeter Central. In my 'layout life' that will be rarely and so the coaches only need to look the part for about 10 seconds (or a bit longer for photing purposes).

Depending upon my mood and supply of 'spare bits' I would do something to the roof and underframe areas of about a dozen of these, but that's not anywhere near a priority as it may be on you LM based layout. (Very nice by the way; I watch but do not 'interfere' on that thread.)

Really appreciate your advice though and I may contact you sometime now that Larry has taken almost all his coach stuff off the Web (very sad). 

Phil

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Hi Phil,

 

One thought that comes to mind about the 57' underframe is that I think the only mould that is serviceable now is the suburban one so you need to carve off the full length footboards if using them for corridor stock, and the battery box is a shambles as half of it is one the wrong side and the other half is not connected to it. But I think the dimensions of the trussing are ok, and if you cut off everything except the trussing and add some Comet bits, they look very decent. Brossard on here (John) has done some wonderful work with them, worth searching for. It is satisfying making something decent from cheap and unpromising beginnings.

 

You're most welcome to contact me any time, and stick your nose in as much as you like on any thread of mine! There doesn't seem to be any danger of them going too far off topic into sausages or photoshop or other such controversy.

 

Best wishes,

 

Iain

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  • 9 months later...

A long time since the last coach building for Camden, but I've recently restarted with a little project to add to the fleet.

 

The thinking went like this:

 

There isn't a rtr mk1 BSO and it's a common enough diagram

Everyone seems to complain about the various complex ways of producing one

Comet do some sides

I've got all sorts of bits to do the rest

Would be a worthwhile one to do

 

So I did.

 

Then when I came round to number it, I couldn't find any reference to a mk1 BSO in the carriage workings, nor on the transfer sheet I have. So maybe there aren't even any relevant BSOs on the WCML 58-62. I'm sure someone will help me out - otherwise this will just sit in a rake and I'll hope nobody knowledgeable notices.

 

Odd mix of stuff:

 

Comet sides with all hinges, handles, door stops etc added

Plastic strip araldited to the edges to enable easy attachment to....

Hornby roof and ends (I have a box of 12 roofs and underframes. The ends are removed from the underframes and mounded detail removed)

Cooper Craft mk1 underframe

 

 

post-10140-0-74630200-1469953908_thumb.jpeg

 

post-10140-0-94432600-1469953922_thumb.jpeg

 

post-10140-0-81324600-1469953933_thumb.jpeg

 

post-10140-0-50392300-1469953944_thumb.jpeg

 

Iain

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