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Passenger and parcels stock for Camden


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Then when I came round to number it, I couldn't find any reference to a mk1 BSO in the carriage workings, nor on the transfer sheet I have. So maybe there aren't even any relevant BSOs on the WCML 58-62. I'm sure someone will help me out - otherwise this will just sit in a rake and I'll hope nobody knowledgeable notices.

 

Unfortunately no Mk1 BSO were allocated to the LMR until the mid 1960s, which is why you can't find them in the carriage workings. Then they got a few transferred from the ER, principally to work in Motorail services for which they received dual brakes.

 

However I don't think too many people would mind if you had an ER numbered one in a set, borrowed at short notice to cover for non-availability of the normal brake coach!

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A long time since the last coach building for Camden, but I've recently restarted with a little project to add to the fleet.

 

The thinking went like this:

 

There isn't a rtr mk1 BSO and it's a common enough diagram

Everyone seems to complain about the various complex ways of producing one

Comet do some sides

I've got all sorts of bits to do the rest

Would be a worthwhile one to do

 

So I did.

 

Then when I came round to number it, I couldn't find any reference to a mk1 BSO in the carriage workings, nor on the transfer sheet I have. So maybe there aren't even any relevant BSOs on the WCML 58-62. I'm sure someone will help me out - otherwise this will just sit in a rake and I'll hope nobody knowledgeable notices.

 

Odd mix of stuff:

 

Comet sides with all hinges, handles, door stops etc added

Plastic strip araldited to the edges to enable easy attachment to....

Hornby roof and ends (I have a box of 12 roofs and underframes. The ends are removed from the underframes and mounded detail removed)

Cooper Craft mk1 underframe

 

 

attachicon.gifimage.jpeg

 

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attachicon.gifimage.jpeg

 

attachicon.gifimage.jpeg

 

Iain

I think you'll need to white / frost the lavatory window. 

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Unfortunately no Mk1 BSO were allocated to the LMR until the mid 1960s, which is why you can't find them in the carriage workings. Then they got a few transferred from the ER, principally to work in Motorail services for which they received dual brakes.

 

However I don't think too many people would mind if you had an ER numbered one in a set, borrowed at short notice to cover for non-availability of the normal brake coach!

  

 

Thanks Mark.

That sounds right - and a decent solution. Would have helped if I'd done my research before building!

 

I think you'll need to white / frost the lavatory window.

 

Thanks David. Yep, just done that this afternoon. It also needs an interior, toilet filler pipe, buffers (also done this afternoon), and all the other markings like Emergency lighting point and so on. Then weathering.

 

Iain

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post-96-0-25253500-1470000031_thumb.jpg

 

 

Here's one I did. I've three more to do all maroon. Pity Bachmann or Hornby don't do this or an FO. The coach next to it is a standard Bachmann SO

Edited by davidw
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From the third edition of the abc of British Railways Coaches, said to be correct to January 1962:

 

E 9200 - 9256, 9277 - 9346

W 9257 - 9276, 9347 - 9356

SC 9357 - 9362

 

There may have been more than that but my copy of Parkin is upstairs, I'm downstairs and just back off holiday!

 

It is a well known fact that railway carriages have wheels.  It is another that they are sometimes reluctant to stay in the sets into which they have been marshalled.

 

Chris

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Many thanks, Chris.

I have Parkin here but it doesn't give regional allocations, just the number series.

Do we reckon it's more likely to have a WR or an ER BSO temporarily on a Euston train?

 

Iain

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Many thanks, Chris.

I have Parkin here but it doesn't give regional allocations, just the number series.

Do we reckon it's more likely to have a WR or an ER BSO temporarily on a Euston train?

 

Iain

 

May I refer the honourable gentleman to Page 207 et. seq., Appendix 3 - Allocations?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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Many thanks, Chris.

I have Parkin here but it doesn't give regional allocations, just the number series.

Do we reckon it's more likely to have a WR or an ER BSO temporarily on a Euston train?

 

Iain

 

I would think a Scottish one to be more common into Euston.

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Many thanks, Chris.

I have Parkin here but it doesn't give regional allocations, just the number series.

Do we reckon it's more likely to have a WR or an ER BSO temporarily on a Euston train?

 

Iain

 

Good question.  The ER ones were apparently in regular front line use to give just that little more seating capacity - five bays against four compos, every little helps and all that.  Gilbert Great Northern is the expert.  The WR had a number of sets formed of open seconds with BSOs at each end, reflecting GWR practice.  These were used on excursions, relief trains and on summer Saturdays when every seat capable of accommodating a bum was pressed into service.  I understand that at least one of these sets was broken up to make Mk 1 open seconds available for use as dining vehicles marshalled next to RUs, which does beg the question of why one of the designated restaurant open seconds was converted to a cinema coach for exhibition trains.  One WR BSO, 9276, received chocolate and cream and worked in the Cathedrals Express coupled to an RU.  This would have left an odd one, vulnerable to being swiped. 

 

Chris

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Thanks David, hopefully they will be acceptable when finished. There is something very satisfying about making something decent from unpromising beginnings. Even if it would make a lot more sense to start from a more sensible place......

 

So, errr....... guess who forgot the guards duckets and ventilators.....

 

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Ughhhh

 

Kitchen car and 12 wheel dining car roof construction under way:

 

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Roof ribs added from 10 thou microstrip - spacings are as on the Comet drawings so they are not supposed to be even

 

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These may well be a fraction too prominent but the overall look of the layout needs to be consistent. I'm not planning on de-ribbing all the Bachmann mk1s I have, and the Stanier stock had much more prominent ribs than mk1s.

 

Iain

M

Edited by 71000
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I've taken a look at Hugh Longworth's 'BR Mark 1 & Mark 2 Coaching stock' which suggests the LMR did receive a no of BSO's in the '60's. All were from the first batch Lot no 30170 built at Doncaster between 1955-1956. The dates below indicate the month of transfer to the LMR and any subsequent regional movements.

 

E9205 .......07/65

E9206........07/65

E9208 .......07/65

E9209....... 01/66........back to ER....07/71

E9210....... 04/68

E9212........01/66

E9220........10/68

E9221........02/67

E9225........01/66

E9226........08/65

E9227........10/68

E9228........07/65

E9229........by '72.....then to Sc 02/81

E9230........04/68

E9236........01/66

E9237........01/66.....then to Sc 02/81

E9241........by '72

E9250........04/68

E9252........by '69....then back to ER 05/70

 

Hope that helps

 

Doug

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  • 3 years later...

Closer to 4 years than 3 since I updated this.  Oh dear.  
 

I resolved to complete a few unfinished projects during this period before starting more, and while that was a good intention, some of these weren’t necessarily the ideal start point.  Converting an unpromising beginning or a damaged donor, or completing something started by someone else, is often harder than starting a full kit and doing it properly.  So if I am to fill the somewhat extensive storage yard for Camden Shed mk2 with suitable rakes to represent trains of the period, I might have to refine my techniques a bit.

 

Anyway, here we go.  I might need some guidance to get the final touches to some of these.

 

First up, a D1912 PIII Kitchen Car.  Full Comet kit bought part completed.on eBay.

 

I think this needs just to be weathered.  

 

1B3491EC-1C21-4A78-B890-F7D690405B56.jpeg.9726ebda0549da3998443fdaaeffa9ae.jpeg
 

Iain

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That looks really good, could it have been done professionally?  I prefer folded paper gangways, that one looks like Bachmann.  I also see a hook that resembles the Tony Wright system.  I've been proselytizing on this system for some time.

 

I'm on 7mm nowadays.

 

John

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Diag 1715  PI BG in crimson, which will be fairly well weathered.  I have a nice pic of one of these as the first vehicle in a down express.

 

4BEB443A-7730-4630-A0D2-3715D80FF55C.jpeg.c5603ef493fbb43577c3478534f1612c.jpeg


Comet kit on Bachmann LMS bogies.  Cannibalised Hornby roof filed and pruned before adding the necessary bits.  These were quite distinctive vehicles with what looked like half an underframe.  
 

Iain

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55 minutes ago, brossard said:

That looks really good, could it have been done professionally?  I prefer folded paper gangways, that one looks like Bachmann.  I also see a hook that resembles the Tony Wright system.  I've been proselytizing on this system for some time.

 

I'm on 7mm nowadays.

 

John


Hi John,

Good to hear from you.  I knew you’d moved on to 7mm.  I hope it is going well.

these gangways are folded paper, yes, and a copy of Tony’s method of couplings.  
 

When I bought this a few years ago, it was certainly well constructed as far as it was, so perhaps could have been professionally done.  I got a bargain I think.  
 

D491361B-8061-4C6D-9D25-04C2A0760646.jpeg.7fc5267bc34152350ae0a852d4209736.jpeg

 

Especially as it came with a D1981 (?) RTO 

 

4E49EC4A-5517-4A0F-AC90-E7D5C8A086FC.jpeg.6be450739ff697bc6e9baec5e2cfaff1.jpeg

 

Which now looks like this:

 

111D3ECB-EE86-4441-A929-8E386059926C.jpeg.735aeec880ca52d3ef623aa8ed105153.jpeg
 

The Comet LMS gangways protrude a long way, and with the additional paper gangway, adjusting the TW hook and goalpost system requires a bit more attention. 
 

Iain

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Those coaches really are brilliant, great work!

 

Since moving to 7mm, I've never been happier in my modelling.  No more angst about narrow gauge and I can use proto couplings.  I'm also indulging in my fetish for ridiculous detailing.

 

I only finished one coach so far ( there is such a lot to do when you are building a layout single handed), a Kirk Gresley BG:

 

P1010003-002.JPG.393bcde435e09e200a215b01f2e51b01.JPG

 

My insane underframe detailing:

 

P1010005-001.JPG.4086946199ab2136c4af9311fe4a785d.JPG

 

It keeps me 'appy and off the streets.

 

John

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Thank you John, and likewise, that Kirk BG looks excellent.

 

More to come:

 

A P III non-corridor 3rd, made by using Comet sides on a Dapol donor. The Dapol bogies weren’t right for this one so I substituted Bachmann LMS ones.  I finished this in unlined maroon and overall I think it’s ok - should it be lined?  I’ve seen a few photos of both but perhaps more lined ones.  I picked a representative number rather than a specific one.  

I didn’t quite get the roof to seat properly on the sides unfortunately, and it’s not easy to alter. That’s the big issue with mixed media, I think.  If you solder the whole coach then anything, within reason, can be adjusted.  

 

Still, making these sides with all of the hinges, handles and drop lights, and then glazing each pane individually, is a bit of a mission.  If I make more non-corridors - well, when I do - I might have to make some decisions about not going the whole way on every one, but to make them look part of an overall piece.

 

FC547B6F-DCC3-48E7-A030-647D0B21505B.jpeg.f9dff38ea7eb75cc1f651fc701f99cf3.jpeg

 

These next two were bought part completed and now ready for weathering.  Basically, I have a non-corridor third and a brake third, and I guessed a little at their being P II diagrams.  The T had lost half its above door ventilators so I removed the rest, given some previous information that sometimes this happened to the ex-LMS carriages in BR ownership.  That may be a mistake.  Finished in unlined crimson - and now I might have made another mistake.  I read somewhere that this was appropriate for some less than frontline suburban stock in 58-62 but now I’m having doubts.  Any guidance helpful.  To be honest, even if it’s not appropriate, I might need to stick with these because to repaint now they are fully glazed would be a mission.

 

C567ECB2-6DAF-4BAB-9973-5FE68F0AF3F9.jpeg.f8e1572d31d56714aa9cd7405ebe2b40.jpeg

 

2CCB5236-3E41-4AE4-A56E-4BA1AB00EA96.jpeg.4c106615d09c42a9475a23b41fe6ac35.jpeg

 

Stanier shallow window 60’ BCK - Comet sides on a Dapol donor.  This, along with the others, was started earlier in the thread.  I’m happy enough with this although the paint wasn’t quite as well applied.  Weathered, it will be disguised enough.  
 

Should it have a grey chalkboard panel?  If so where?  And  “Load x tons distributed” on the bottom of the guard’s section panelling?  I ought to ask the same about the BT above.

 

53A34649-B3FA-49FB-8F26-F16283B22F21.jpeg.c5a00aab9ee076a295b628f4a5a65938.jpeg

 

Finally for the moment, an example of (one of?) the most common ex-LMS diagrams, a P III TK.  Comet sides on a Hornby donor.  Apart from a little bit of overspray onto the roof, which I will carefully repaint before weathering, it’s ok as a layout coach.

 

C88D8FAC-F938-43BD-B07B-BB188DF38DC5.jpeg.eeadf51120ee1d8a63a83f36d3ef0232.jpeg

 

Any advice welcome.

 

Iain

 

 

 

 

Edited by 92220
typo
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I can't speak for the London Midland but there was plenty of unlined crimson about on the Western after 1956 when unlined maroon was introduced.  On a visit to Barry in 1962 I viewed several shabby specimens.

 

Chris

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I definitely think I need to add the 1 on the first class doors of the BCK

Any guidance on the chalk panels for that one, and also on the BT and BG would be much appreciated. 

 

I found a nice photo of some unlined crimson (or was it carmine - you’ve started me off now Terry!) P II non-corridors in 1959 so I’m happy with that livery. 
 

Weathering beckons soon.
 

Iain

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  • 92220 changed the title to Passenger and parcels stock for Camden

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