mark54 Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Then when I came round to number it, I couldn't find any reference to a mk1 BSO in the carriage workings, nor on the transfer sheet I have. So maybe there aren't even any relevant BSOs on the WCML 58-62. I'm sure someone will help me out - otherwise this will just sit in a rake and I'll hope nobody knowledgeable notices. Unfortunately no Mk1 BSO were allocated to the LMR until the mid 1960s, which is why you can't find them in the carriage workings. Then they got a few transferred from the ER, principally to work in Motorail services for which they received dual brakes. However I don't think too many people would mind if you had an ER numbered one in a set, borrowed at short notice to cover for non-availability of the normal brake coach! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 A long time since the last coach building for Camden, but I've recently restarted with a little project to add to the fleet. The thinking went like this: There isn't a rtr mk1 BSO and it's a common enough diagram Everyone seems to complain about the various complex ways of producing one Comet do some sides I've got all sorts of bits to do the rest Would be a worthwhile one to do So I did. Then when I came round to number it, I couldn't find any reference to a mk1 BSO in the carriage workings, nor on the transfer sheet I have. So maybe there aren't even any relevant BSOs on the WCML 58-62. I'm sure someone will help me out - otherwise this will just sit in a rake and I'll hope nobody knowledgeable notices. Odd mix of stuff: Comet sides with all hinges, handles, door stops etc added Plastic strip araldited to the edges to enable easy attachment to.... Hornby roof and ends (I have a box of 12 roofs and underframes. The ends are removed from the underframes and mounded detail removed) Cooper Craft mk1 underframe image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg Iain I think you'll need to white / frost the lavatory window. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
92220 Posted July 31, 2016 Author Share Posted July 31, 2016 Unfortunately no Mk1 BSO were allocated to the LMR until the mid 1960s, which is why you can't find them in the carriage workings. Then they got a few transferred from the ER, principally to work in Motorail services for which they received dual brakes. However I don't think too many people would mind if you had an ER numbered one in a set, borrowed at short notice to cover for non-availability of the normal brake coach! Thanks Mark. That sounds right - and a decent solution. Would have helped if I'd done my research before building! I think you'll need to white / frost the lavatory window. Thanks David. Yep, just done that this afternoon. It also needs an interior, toilet filler pipe, buffers (also done this afternoon), and all the other markings like Emergency lighting point and so on. Then weathering. Iain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 (edited) Here's one I did. I've three more to do all maroon. Pity Bachmann or Hornby don't do this or an FO. The coach next to it is a standard Bachmann SO Edited July 31, 2016 by davidw 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
92220 Posted August 1, 2016 Author Share Posted August 1, 2016 Very nice David. How did you make yours? Iain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Very nice David. How did you make yours? Iain Bachmann donor, comet sides and lots of patience. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 From the third edition of the abc of British Railways Coaches, said to be correct to January 1962: E 9200 - 9256, 9277 - 9346 W 9257 - 9276, 9347 - 9356 SC 9357 - 9362 There may have been more than that but my copy of Parkin is upstairs, I'm downstairs and just back off holiday! It is a well known fact that railway carriages have wheels. It is another that they are sometimes reluctant to stay in the sets into which they have been marshalled. Chris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
92220 Posted August 7, 2016 Author Share Posted August 7, 2016 Many thanks, Chris. I have Parkin here but it doesn't give regional allocations, just the number series. Do we reckon it's more likely to have a WR or an ER BSO temporarily on a Euston train? Iain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 Many thanks, Chris. I have Parkin here but it doesn't give regional allocations, just the number series. Do we reckon it's more likely to have a WR or an ER BSO temporarily on a Euston train? Iain May I refer the honourable gentleman to Page 207 et. seq., Appendix 3 - Allocations? Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merfyn Jones Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 Many thanks, Chris. I have Parkin here but it doesn't give regional allocations, just the number series. Do we reckon it's more likely to have a WR or an ER BSO temporarily on a Euston train? Iain I would think a Scottish one to be more common into Euston. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 Many thanks, Chris. I have Parkin here but it doesn't give regional allocations, just the number series. Do we reckon it's more likely to have a WR or an ER BSO temporarily on a Euston train? Iain Good question. The ER ones were apparently in regular front line use to give just that little more seating capacity - five bays against four compos, every little helps and all that. Gilbert Great Northern is the expert. The WR had a number of sets formed of open seconds with BSOs at each end, reflecting GWR practice. These were used on excursions, relief trains and on summer Saturdays when every seat capable of accommodating a bum was pressed into service. I understand that at least one of these sets was broken up to make Mk 1 open seconds available for use as dining vehicles marshalled next to RUs, which does beg the question of why one of the designated restaurant open seconds was converted to a cinema coach for exhibition trains. One WR BSO, 9276, received chocolate and cream and worked in the Cathedrals Express coupled to an RU. This would have left an odd one, vulnerable to being swiped. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
71000 Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 (edited) Thanks David, hopefully they will be acceptable when finished. There is something very satisfying about making something decent from unpromising beginnings. Even if it would make a lot more sense to start from a more sensible place...... So, errr....... guess who forgot the guards duckets and ventilators..... image.jpg Ughhhh Kitchen car and 12 wheel dining car roof construction under way: image.jpg image.jpg Roof ribs added from 10 thou microstrip - spacings are as on the Comet drawings so they are not supposed to be even image.jpg These may well be a fraction too prominent but the overall look of the layout needs to be consistent. I'm not planning on de-ribbing all the Bachmann mk1s I have, and the Stanier stock had much more prominent ribs than mk1s. Iain M Edited April 7, 2018 by 71000 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icknieldrobin Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 I've taken a look at Hugh Longworth's 'BR Mark 1 & Mark 2 Coaching stock' which suggests the LMR did receive a no of BSO's in the '60's. All were from the first batch Lot no 30170 built at Doncaster between 1955-1956. The dates below indicate the month of transfer to the LMR and any subsequent regional movements. E9205 .......07/65 E9206........07/65 E9208 .......07/65 E9209....... 01/66........back to ER....07/71 E9210....... 04/68 E9212........01/66 E9220........10/68 E9221........02/67 E9225........01/66 E9226........08/65 E9227........10/68 E9228........07/65 E9229........by '72.....then to Sc 02/81 E9230........04/68 E9236........01/66 E9237........01/66.....then to Sc 02/81 E9241........by '72 E9250........04/68 E9252........by '69....then back to ER 05/70 Hope that helps Doug 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
92220 Posted May 10, 2020 Author Share Posted May 10, 2020 Closer to 4 years than 3 since I updated this. Oh dear. I resolved to complete a few unfinished projects during this period before starting more, and while that was a good intention, some of these weren’t necessarily the ideal start point. Converting an unpromising beginning or a damaged donor, or completing something started by someone else, is often harder than starting a full kit and doing it properly. So if I am to fill the somewhat extensive storage yard for Camden Shed mk2 with suitable rakes to represent trains of the period, I might have to refine my techniques a bit. Anyway, here we go. I might need some guidance to get the final touches to some of these. First up, a D1912 PIII Kitchen Car. Full Comet kit bought part completed.on eBay. I think this needs just to be weathered. Iain 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 That looks really good, could it have been done professionally? I prefer folded paper gangways, that one looks like Bachmann. I also see a hook that resembles the Tony Wright system. I've been proselytizing on this system for some time. I'm on 7mm nowadays. John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
92220 Posted May 10, 2020 Author Share Posted May 10, 2020 Diag 1715 PI BG in crimson, which will be fairly well weathered. I have a nice pic of one of these as the first vehicle in a down express. Comet kit on Bachmann LMS bogies. Cannibalised Hornby roof filed and pruned before adding the necessary bits. These were quite distinctive vehicles with what looked like half an underframe. Iain 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
92220 Posted May 10, 2020 Author Share Posted May 10, 2020 55 minutes ago, brossard said: That looks really good, could it have been done professionally? I prefer folded paper gangways, that one looks like Bachmann. I also see a hook that resembles the Tony Wright system. I've been proselytizing on this system for some time. I'm on 7mm nowadays. John Hi John, Good to hear from you. I knew you’d moved on to 7mm. I hope it is going well. these gangways are folded paper, yes, and a copy of Tony’s method of couplings. When I bought this a few years ago, it was certainly well constructed as far as it was, so perhaps could have been professionally done. I got a bargain I think. Especially as it came with a D1981 (?) RTO Which now looks like this: The Comet LMS gangways protrude a long way, and with the additional paper gangway, adjusting the TW hook and goalpost system requires a bit more attention. Iain 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 Those coaches really are brilliant, great work! Since moving to 7mm, I've never been happier in my modelling. No more angst about narrow gauge and I can use proto couplings. I'm also indulging in my fetish for ridiculous detailing. I only finished one coach so far ( there is such a lot to do when you are building a layout single handed), a Kirk Gresley BG: My insane underframe detailing: It keeps me 'appy and off the streets. John 6 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
92220 Posted May 11, 2020 Author Share Posted May 11, 2020 (edited) Thank you John, and likewise, that Kirk BG looks excellent. More to come: A P III non-corridor 3rd, made by using Comet sides on a Dapol donor. The Dapol bogies weren’t right for this one so I substituted Bachmann LMS ones. I finished this in unlined maroon and overall I think it’s ok - should it be lined? I’ve seen a few photos of both but perhaps more lined ones. I picked a representative number rather than a specific one. I didn’t quite get the roof to seat properly on the sides unfortunately, and it’s not easy to alter. That’s the big issue with mixed media, I think. If you solder the whole coach then anything, within reason, can be adjusted. Still, making these sides with all of the hinges, handles and drop lights, and then glazing each pane individually, is a bit of a mission. If I make more non-corridors - well, when I do - I might have to make some decisions about not going the whole way on every one, but to make them look part of an overall piece. These next two were bought part completed and now ready for weathering. Basically, I have a non-corridor third and a brake third, and I guessed a little at their being P II diagrams. The T had lost half its above door ventilators so I removed the rest, given some previous information that sometimes this happened to the ex-LMS carriages in BR ownership. That may be a mistake. Finished in unlined crimson - and now I might have made another mistake. I read somewhere that this was appropriate for some less than frontline suburban stock in 58-62 but now I’m having doubts. Any guidance helpful. To be honest, even if it’s not appropriate, I might need to stick with these because to repaint now they are fully glazed would be a mission. Stanier shallow window 60’ BCK - Comet sides on a Dapol donor. This, along with the others, was started earlier in the thread. I’m happy enough with this although the paint wasn’t quite as well applied. Weathered, it will be disguised enough. Should it have a grey chalkboard panel? If so where? And “Load x tons distributed” on the bottom of the guard’s section panelling? I ought to ask the same about the BT above. Finally for the moment, an example of (one of?) the most common ex-LMS diagrams, a P III TK. Comet sides on a Hornby donor. Apart from a little bit of overspray onto the roof, which I will carefully repaint before weathering, it’s ok as a layout coach. Any advice welcome. Iain Edited May 11, 2020 by 92220 typo 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 I can't speak for the London Midland but there was plenty of unlined crimson about on the Western after 1956 when unlined maroon was introduced. On a visit to Barry in 1962 I viewed several shabby specimens. Chris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 Larry Goddard comes to mind when I look at your coaches. John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
92220 Posted May 11, 2020 Author Share Posted May 11, 2020 Thank you John. That’s an enormous compliment. You are very kind. Iain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
92220 Posted May 11, 2020 Author Share Posted May 11, 2020 I definitely think I need to add the 1 on the first class doors of the BCK Any guidance on the chalk panels for that one, and also on the BT and BG would be much appreciated. I found a nice photo of some unlined crimson (or was it carmine - you’ve started me off now Terry!) P II non-corridors in 1959 so I’m happy with that livery. Weathering beckons soon. Iain 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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