Corbs' Cobbling - Is it electric?

[Corbs]

Your Edward model looks very nice! I hope it runs well after all that work.

Alas I have not yet gotten around to finishing it so it does not run at all yet!

[NeilHB]

Yes indeed all in good time.

 

A few possible names for these N Class locos:

 

401 Sigurd

402 Harold

403 Thorkell

404 Ulf

405 Edric

 

All characters from Sudrian History (taken from TIOS). 

 

I'd quite like to name a group of locos after historical Sudrian women like Gerda, Sigrid, Gertha, there are probably more...

 

I like the suggested names, and the idea of using the Woolwich Moguls too - good go anywhere locos which I think would have been ideal had the North Western got their hands on a few. 

 

You could also had Rognvald to the list of names for the N class - he was one of the sons of the legendary Sudrian heroine Sigrid. Will have to dig out my copy of IoS: People, History and Places tonight when I get home from work and see what other suitable historical Sudrian female names there are. 

[Lu4472ke]

 

 

 

402 Harold

Harold the helicopter to our Percy you are slow,

Your railway is out of date and not much you know, 

But Percy and his stone trucks did the trip in record time,

Aaaaaaaaand we beat the helicopter on our own branch line!

Edited June 29, 2018 by lukeknights4472

[Corbs]

I like the suggested names, and the idea of using the Woolwich Moguls too - good go anywhere locos which I think would have been ideal had the North Western got their hands on a few. 

 

You could also had Rognvald to the list of names for the N class - he was one of the sons of the legendary Sudrian heroine Sigrid. Will have to dig out my copy of IoS: People, History and Places tonight when I get home from work and see what other suitable historical Sudrian female names there are. 

Thanks Neil, yes Rognvald and Edric Edricsson I guess they would be, as they would have had to dispense with the Norse naming method in order to eventually become the 'Drixon' family name, unless these two were Rognvald and Edric Ormsson and Edric's children kept Edricsson?

 

Conveniently naming the Ns with one name means that Edric could be Edric (I) and Edric (II).

 

Another naming scheme could be warships built by Vickers at Barrow-in-Furness, e.g:

Vanguard

Princess Royal

Erin

Emperor of India

Revenge

(all WW1 era battleships and battlecruisers)

 

Illustrious

Indomitable

Colossus

Pioneer

Majestic

(all WW2 era aircraft carriers)

[RedGemAlchemist]

Illustrious

Indomitable

Colossus

Pioneer

Majestic

(all WW2 era aircraft carriers)

I like this one personally. Just saying, has a gravitas to it.

[Corbs]

I like this one personally. Just saying, has a gravitas to it.

 

Me too! Needs to be something big and powerful (and built post 1946)

 

 

Taking the N Classes a step further, I did think about an extra 2 Woolwich-built kits being converted into 2-6-4T locos like the Metropolitan K Class locos, and these two could carry female names 'Gerda' and 'Sigrid', giving the NWR some branch line locos when it really needed it.

 

Could be quite nice for these to differ from the Met K and SR W classes. Possibly side tanks shaped more like the LBSCR E2 ones, and a different-shaped cab and bunker. Could be built using a converted Bachmann N Class.

[RedGemAlchemist]

Me too! Needs to be something big and powerful (and built post 1946)

 

 

Taking the N Classes a step further, I did think about an extra 2 Woolwich-built kits being converted into 2-6-4T locos like the Metropolitan K Class locos, and these two could carry female names 'Gerda' and 'Sigrid', giving the NWR some branch line locos when it really needed it.

 

Could be quite nice for these to differ from the Met K and SR W classes. Possibly side tanks shaped more like the LBSCR E2 ones, and a different-shaped cab and bunker. Could be built using a converted Bachmann N Class.

Nice. For branch line engines from the books there's still a certain diesel railcar and diesel shunter from the books, as well as the one character from the TV series I actually wouldn't mind seeing a version in a more realistic (and certainly less creepy stalkerish) style.

Edited June 29, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist

[Corbs]

Ah yes of course! I have a good idea for how to do Daisy -backdating her by several decades for a start!

 

All will be revealed in due course.

 

Meanwhile it's been a bit of a slow afternoon so I've experimented with marrying an LMS-style rear end onto the N Class kit, I think possibly something more modern and Stanier-like would be better (like the extended bunker) with cab windows instead of a single cutout.

Edited June 29, 2018 by Corbs

[RedGemAlchemist]

Ah yes of course! I have a good idea for how to do Daisy -backdating her by several decades for a start!

 

All will be revealed in due course.

 

Meanwhile it's been a bit of a slow afternoon so I've experimented with marrying an LMS-style rear end onto the N Class kit, I think possibly something more modern and Stanier-like would be better (like the extended bunker) with cab windows instead of a single cutout.

woolworth2.jpg

Belle from the TV series, minus the impractical and stupid water cannon things which were clearly added to sell toys? 

(Yes I'm familiar with the characters from the TV series despite my distaste of it being quite well known.)

Edited June 29, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist

[Compound2632]

I rather like the Derby style using the 4P tanks, bunker and cab - it's true to the Midland influences on the SECR/Woolwich Mogul, via James Clayton.

[NeilHB]

Thanks Neil, yes Rognvald and Edric Edricsson I guess they would be, as they would have had to dispense with the Norse naming method in order to eventually become the 'Drixon' family name, unless these two were Rognvald and Edric Ormsson and Edric's children kept Edricsson?

 

Conveniently naming the Ns with one name means that Edric could be Edric (I) and Edric (II).

 

Another naming scheme could be warships built by Vickers at Barrow-in-Furness, e.g:

Vanguard

Princess Royal

Erin

Emperor of India

Revenge

(all WW1 era battleships and battlecruisers)

 

Illustrious

Indomitable

Colossus

Pioneer

Majestic

(all WW2 era aircraft carriers)

I think there is merit in both suggestions re the naming - Edricsson and Ormsson - though I am inclined to steer towards the latter with Edric's decedents becoming the Edricsson's, as this leads better to the name becoming the Drixon's. 

 

I do like the other suggested names - I recall seeing earlier mention of the railway owning a number of ex ROD 2-8-0's - perhaps these names were given to them post WWI when they became owned by the NWR? 

 

Me too! Needs to be something big and powerful (and built post 1946)

 

 

Taking the N Classes a step further, I did think about an extra 2 Woolwich-built kits being converted into 2-6-4T locos like the Metropolitan K Class locos, and these two could carry female names 'Gerda' and 'Sigrid', giving the NWR some branch line locos when it really needed it.

 

Could be quite nice for these to differ from the Met K and SR W classes. Possibly side tanks shaped more like the LBSCR E2 ones, and a different-shaped cab and bunker. Could be built using a converted Bachmann N Class.

 

Your suggestion for post 1946 made me think of the ex WD 2-8-0 and 2-10-0 locos - whilst I think the 2-10-0 would be too big for Sudrian metals, there is merit in a couple of the 2-8-0's being drafted to the North Western fleet - perhaps they are replacements for the aforementioned ROD 2-8-0's? 

 

Personally I'd go for a 2-6-2T for the branch line services, to me the 2-6-4T's are much more suburban, though probably ideal for the Norramby-Barrow commuter service! 

 

Ah yes of course! I have a good idea for how to do Daisy -backdating her by several decades for a start!

 

All will be revealed in due course.

 

Meanwhile it's been a bit of a slow afternoon so I've experimented with marrying an LMS-style rear end onto the N Class kit, I think possibly something more modern and Stanier-like would be better (like the extended bunker) with cab windows instead of a single cutout.

woolworth2.jpg

 

 

However I really do like your design for the 2-6-4T - definite shades of a Fowler tank there - perhaps STH called in another favour from Stanier? 

 

How far back are you backdating Daisy's design? There were some very nice diesel-electric railcars built by Armstrong Whitworth for the LNER in the 30's which could be suitable? There are some drawings and nice photos in the book "British Railcars 1900 to 1950" by David Jenkinson and Barry C. Lane - https://www.amazon.co.uk/British-Railcars-1900-1950-David-Jenkinson/dp/0906899648/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1530301659&sr=8-1&keywords=British+Railcars 

[Moxy]

Ah yes of course! I have a good idea for how to do Daisy -backdating her by several decades for a start!

 

All will be revealed in due course.

 

Meanwhile it's been a bit of a slow afternoon so I've experimented with marrying an LMS-style rear end onto the N Class kit, I think possibly something more modern and Stanier-like would be better (like the extended bunker) with cab windows instead of a single cutout.

woolworth2.jpg

 

If you're looking for something with a more modern cab, but still LMS/Midland/Derby inspired, how about the NCC WT Geep?

 

https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4185/34597837906_7a3b75d78f_b.jpg

 

That has extended bunker, different cab windows & other detail differences compared to what ran on the mainland.  Perhaps your 2-6-4 N Class could be a taper boiler version of the WT? (or inspired by it.)

[Corbs]

That looks really interesting, I like it!

- Alex

 

Cheers boss!

Belle from the TV series, minus the impractical and stupid water cannon things which were clearly added to sell toys? 

(Yes I'm familiar with the characters from the TV series despite my distaste of it being quite well known.)

 

Haha yes! It wasn't intentional

 

I think there is merit in both suggestions re the naming - Edricsson and Ormsson - though I am inclined to steer towards the latter with Edric's decedents becoming the Edricsson's, as this leads better to the name becoming the Drixon's. 

 

I do like the other suggested names - I recall seeing earlier mention of the railway owning a number of ex ROD 2-8-0's - perhaps these names were given to them post WWI when they became owned by the NWR? 

 

Your suggestion for post 1946 made me think of the ex WD 2-8-0 and 2-10-0 locos - whilst I think the 2-10-0 would be too big for Sudrian metals, there is merit in a couple of the 2-8-0's being drafted to the North Western fleet - perhaps they are replacements for the aforementioned ROD 2-8-0's? 

 

Personally I'd go for a 2-6-2T for the branch line services, to me the 2-6-4T's are much more suburban, though probably ideal for the Norramby-Barrow commuter service! 

 

However I really do like your design for the 2-6-4T - definite shades of a Fowler tank there - perhaps STH called in another favour from Stanier? 

 

How far back are you backdating Daisy's design? There were some very nice diesel-electric railcars built by Armstrong Whitworth for the LNER in the 30's which could be suitable? There are some drawings and nice photos in the book "British Railcars 1900 to 1950" by David Jenkinson and Barry C. Lane - https://www.amazon.co.uk/British-Railcars-1900-1950-David-Jenkinson/dp/0906899648/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1530301659&sr=8-1&keywords=British+Railcars 

 

I agree, perhaps the ROD 2-8-0 locos (later rebuilt with Hatt cabs, of course - the same style then copied by Hughes and Stanier's offices, or did Hatt copy Hughes, or Collet for that matter?) would be good candidates for some big strong names like those mentioned above, especially taking into account the connection to the war effort.

 

Similarly the massive amount of surplus WD 2-8-0s available after WW2 makes sense that the NWR should have a few, with similar naming conventions.

 

Reminds me of this drawing from the Model Railway News in the late 1940s

 

and this one too!

 

Regarding Daisy - thank you for the heads-up on the book! The current idea is to give some more life to a local (to me) railcar - ex-GW, ex-WC&P, ex-SR No.5.

 

After the WC&P stock was carted off to Swindon in 1940 (and mostly scrapped) this Drewry petrol railcar ended its days as a pavilion at a school! But maybe in this universe it was sold up North.

Would require some re-scripting ("A p-p-p-p-petrol!?') but then maybe Crovans Gate could re-engine it with a Perkins, Gardner or an AEC lump after the war.

 

If you're looking for something with a more modern cab, but still LMS/Midland/Derby inspired, how about the NCC WT Geep?

 

https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4185/34597837906_7a3b75d78f_b.jpg

 

That has extended bunker, different cab windows & other detail differences compared to what ran on the mainland.  Perhaps your 2-6-4 N Class could be a taper boiler version of the WT? (or inspired by it.)

 

Yes that was exactly the kind of cab I was thinking about to begin with (also it's funny how the WT and my photobodge above are almost two ends of the spectrum).

I realised though that I may have had my dates a bit wrong as Stanier was still at Swindon during the period the N Class kits would have been arriving on the island (1924-1925ish) and at that time the relationships between the LMS and the NWR were not at their best, so possibly another influence may work?

 

 

This also takes into account Neil's point regarding a 2-6-2T (though it could still be used for the Norramby-Barrow service)

Perhaps a static model could be made from 2 GBL locos as a test?

[Gibbo675]

Cheers boss!

 

Haha yes! It wasn't intentional

 

 

I agree, perhaps the ROD 2-8-0 locos (later rebuilt with Hatt cabs, of course - the same style then copied by Hughes and Stanier's offices, or did Hatt copy Hughes, or Collet for that matter?) would be good candidates for some big strong names like those mentioned above, especially taking into account the connection to the war effort.

 

Similarly the massive amount of surplus WD 2-8-0s available after WW2 makes sense that the NWR should have a few, with similar naming conventions.

 

Reminds me of this drawing from the Model Railway News in the late 1940s

7950238190_59519e8a31_c.jpg

 

and this one too!

7950225656_959609b351_c.jpg

 

Regarding Daisy - thank you for the heads-up on the book! The current idea is to give some more life to a local (to me) railcar - ex-GW, ex-WC&P, ex-SR No.5.

 

After the WC&P stock was carted off to Swindon in 1940 (and mostly scrapped) this Drewry petrol railcar ended its days as a pavilion at a school! But maybe in this universe it was sold up North.

Would require some re-scripting ("A p-p-p-p-petrol!?') but then maybe Crovans Gate could re-engine it with a Perkins, Gardner or an AEC lump after the war.

 

 

Yes that was exactly the kind of cab I was thinking about to begin with (also it's funny how the WT and my photobodge above are almost two ends of the spectrum).

I realised though that I may have had my dates a bit wrong as Stanier was still at Swindon during the period the N Class kits would have been arriving on the island (1924-1925ish) and at that time the relationships between the LMS and the NWR were not at their best, so possibly another influence may work?

 

woolworth4.jpg

 

This also takes into account Neil's point regarding a 2-6-2T (though it could still be used for the Norramby-Barrow service)

Perhaps a static model could be made from 2 GBL locos as a test?

Hi Corbs,

 

In backdating Daisy the DMU, try the LMS Paxman contraptions seen on this page,

 

http://www.davidheyscollection.com/page20.htm

 

Also to be found on page 9 of BR Fleet survey 9

 

It was created from motorising LMS open brake thirds, I have no idea what colour it was but its got speed whiskers! Brian Haresnape's Fleet survey books are great for all kinds of forerunner type project pictures of various main line locos, shunters and multiple units both diesel and electric.

 

For pure style and something less boxy, have a look at this, the MAV Hargita,

 

http://www.train-photos.net/picture/show/24042/Ganz-A1A-2-Hargita-Diesel-electric-railcar-no-46

 

What about a Fell mechanical type contraption made form an old Lima 08, some pony trucks and bits of class 45 body? In time I intend to build a proper Fell by splicing two shunter's running gear and a hefty amount of scratch building, but a Corbs ensmallened 4-6-4 or 2-6-2 version would be easier for the fun of it.

 

Gibbo.

[Corbs]

Hi Corbs,

 

In backdating Daisy the DMU, try the LMS Paxman contraptions seen on this page,

 

http://www.davidheyscollection.com/page20.htm

 

Also to be found on page 9 of BR Fleet survey 9

 

It was created from motorising LMS open brake thirds, I have no idea what colour it was but its got speed whiskers! Brian Haresnape's Fleet survey books are great for all kinds of forerunner type project pictures of various main line locos, shunters and multiple units both diesel and electric.

 

For pure style and something less boxy, have a look at this, the MAV Hargita,

 

http://www.train-photos.net/picture/show/24042/Ganz-A1A-2-Hargita-Diesel-electric-railcar-no-46

 

What about a Fell mechanical type contraption made form an old Lima 08, some pony trucks and bits of class 45 body? In time I intend to build a proper Fell by splicing two shunter's running gear and a hefty amount of scratch building, but a Corbs ensmallened 4-6-4 or 2-6-2 version would be easier for the fun of it.

 

Gibbo.

 

The Hargita is pure dieselpunk! Also this rather beautiful machine from the same page - a backdated Pip and Emma perhaps?

 

Like the idea of the 08/45 Hybrid - you could call it the Small Fell, or Smell for short.

Edited June 30, 2018 by Corbs

[Gibbo675]

The Hargita is pure dieselpunk! Also this rather beautiful machine from the same page - a backdated Pip and Emma perhaps?

 

Like the idea of the 08/45 Hybrid - you could call it the Small Fell, or Smell for short.

Here in Westmorland quite large hills are known by the term "Fell" and smaller hills known by the term "Rigg".

Yes I know, pedantic !

[Gibbo675]

The Hargita is pure dieselpunk! Also this rather beautiful machine from the same page - a backdated Pip and Emma perhaps?

 

Like the idea of the 08/45 Hybrid - you could call it the Small Fell, or Smell for short.

As for the books written after number 26 in the series such abominations ought to be burned. Period.

[Skinnylinny]

Lots of very nice work here - somehow, and I can't quite place my finger on how, you've managed to combine a Southern and GWR loco to give what feels to me like a very LNER-style tank in the 2-6-2. Utterly convincing!

Also, didn't Sigrid already have a locomotive, Sigrid of Arlesdale on the Arlesdale Railway? Although I suppose she wasn't built until 1969...

[RedGemAlchemist]

Me too! Needs to be something big and powerful (and built post 1946)

Well, again drawing from the TV show, the NWR does have a 9F...

[NeilHB]

Cheers boss!

 

Haha yes! It wasn't intentional

 

 

I agree, perhaps the ROD 2-8-0 locos (later rebuilt with Hatt cabs, of course - the same style then copied by Hughes and Stanier's offices, or did Hatt copy Hughes, or Collet for that matter?) would be good candidates for some big strong names like those mentioned above, especially taking into account the connection to the war effort.

 

Similarly the massive amount of surplus WD 2-8-0s available after WW2 makes sense that the NWR should have a few, with similar naming conventions.

 

Reminds me of this drawing from the Model Railway News in the late 1940s

7950238190_59519e8a31_c.jpg

 

and this one too!

7950225656_959609b351_c.jpg

 

Regarding Daisy - thank you for the heads-up on the book! The current idea is to give some more life to a local (to me) railcar - ex-GW, ex-WC&P, ex-SR No.5.

 

After the WC&P stock was carted off to Swindon in 1940 (and mostly scrapped) this Drewry petrol railcar ended its days as a pavilion at a school! But maybe in this universe it was sold up North.

Would require some re-scripting ("A p-p-p-p-petrol!?') but then maybe Crovans Gate could re-engine it with a Perkins, Gardner or an AEC lump after the war.

 

 

Yes that was exactly the kind of cab I was thinking about to begin with (also it's funny how the WT and my photobodge above are almost two ends of the spectrum).

I realised though that I may have had my dates a bit wrong as Stanier was still at Swindon during the period the N Class kits would have been arriving on the island (1924-1925ish) and at that time the relationships between the LMS and the NWR were not at their best, so possibly another influence may work?

 

woolworth4.jpg

 

This also takes into account Neil's point regarding a 2-6-2T (though it could still be used for the Norramby-Barrow service)

Perhaps a static model could be made from 2 GBL locos as a test?

I wonder if Hart would have copied Collets style? After all he was a fan of all things Swindon.

 

I had also wondered if the NWR ended up with any of the Midland Baldwin and Schenectady Moguls - withdrawals started in 1915 so a perfect excuse to transfer them over to Sudrian metals during the loco crisis of 1915 or thereabouts? It’s what I intend to do for my 7mm stuff one day anyway.

 

I do like your idea for Daisy - and probably more suited to the Ffarquhar branch needs that a Met-Cam unit.

 

Now that idea for the 2-6-2T does look rather nice, and I agree there is a definite hint of LNER about it. In one of my books there is a drawing of the proposed 2-6-2T that was intended for the Midland & Great Northern Joint, which isn’t too dissimilar. Will dig the drawing out and have a look, as that could be a suitable contender?

[chris p bacon]

The Hargita is pure dieselpunk! Also this rather beautiful machine from the same page - a backdated Pip and Emma perhaps?

 

Like the idea of the 08/45 Hybrid - you could call it the Small Fell, or Smell for short.

 

 

That picture's taken at Blunham and it's heading for Sandy, I wish you hadn't reminded me as now I have to build it !

[Corbs]

Thanks all for the interesting discussion, certainly helps with the modelling mojo!

 

I had a go at bringing the Woolworth 2-6-2T more in line with the other NWR tank locos by shortening the 2-6-4T design. This I think resembles No.301 a bit more with the straight-backed bunker and the extended side tanks. I think lowering the bunker top in line with the side tanks and shortening the tank extensions has made it look less Fowler-esque.

Think I'm going to have a go at hacking up an old Hornby fowler body and splicing it with a GBL N class.

 

The Yankee moguls are certainly an interesting idea - would look good in blue! I guess it would be power rating 2 here as the tractive effort is roughly equivalent to the 2F and 2P on the LMS. Could imagine them being run into the ground and replaced by the N class moguls 10 years later?

 

Neil - if you could find the drawing of the prairie I'd be interested in seeing it.

[Gibbo675]

Thanks all for the interesting discussion, certainly helps with the modelling mojo!

Hey Corbs,

 

Do a rendering of the suggested Smell / Rigg type loco from a spliced together Gronk-Peak contraption instead of all these admittedly nice blue kettles. If you do. indulge me with East African Railways red like the EECo. class 90's.

 

http://www.mccrow.org.uk/EastAfrica/EastAfricanRailways/NairobiMPD.htm

 

The class 85 diesel is a contraption also.

 

You can do it !

 

Gibbo.

[NeilHB]

Photo of drawing below:

 

 

Plus photo of corresponding dimensions/technical info:

 

 

The detail is all in this book:

 

 

Which is a must have if you are, like me, a big fan of the M&GN! It does mention in the book that the locos might have been better if built with 5’3” wheels, rather than the 6’ as drawn.

 

Does look remarkably similar to your mock up, just with a parallel boiler as opposed to the tapered one fitted to the N class.

Edited July 1, 2018 by NeilHB

[Compound2632]

I had a go at bringing the Woolworth 2-6-2T more in line with the other NWR tank locos by shortening the 2-6-4T design. This I think resembles No.301 a bit more with the straight-backed bunker and the extended side tanks. I think lowering the bunker top in line with the side tanks and shortening the tank extensions has made it look less Fowler-esque.

 

 

It certainly looks to have a bit more oomph to it than the rather weedily under-boilered looking Fowler and Stanier 2-6-2Ts!