Dave at Honley Tank Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I think this is the best forum for my query! I'm looking for a slightly larger milling machine than the Proxxon. I had one of the Chinese made mini millers but had problems with the pc board for the speed control and also with the plastic gearing. I traded it in against the Proxxon but this is frequently too small for my needs - mainly 4mm finescale. I am having difficulty finding anything on the net that is not of Chinese origin, or too large - space is a problem. The Taig (Peatol in this country) looks as though it would fit the bill but I'd like to see one before committing. Has any one here got a Taig/Peatol and what are your comments? Any one know where I can inspect one within reasonable striking distance of Huddersfield Has any one other suggestions? Imperial is preferred!!!! My researching seems to suggest that just about all the mini millers on sale in uk are made in China by Sieg and have plastic gearing rather than belt drive. Trouble with electronics seems to feature too frequently as well! Any input is welcome. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardL Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Can I suggest the Sherline mill as worthy of a good look. Their lathes are excellent, and the CNC mill that I've seen has produced some excellent work. The owner of the mill has had issues with motor brushes, but he runs it for 12+ hrs at a time. No know probs with the lathe. http://www.sherline.com/ Cheers Richard Lane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Hello Dave, you could have a look at Machine Mart, the back page of the catalogue showing where there stores are, Some of the mills that they have, Axminster tools, they have more mill in there catalogue, or you can look on line, HTH OzzyO. PS, have a look in the thread just below this one we may have mentioned milling M/C in it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 ...I had one of the Chinese made mini millers but had problems with the pc board for the speed control and also with the plastic gearing. I traded it in against the Proxxon but this is frequently too small for my needs - mainly 4mm finescale.... Certainly, there were problems with the pc boards on some of the earlier Sieg models. One thing to realise is that Sieg kit varies according to the requirements of the importer/supplier and those early pc boards persisted for a long time in machines from some suppliers. An outwardly similar machine from one supplier may be quite different in detail to one from another. The current board is an improved version and rarely gives problems. Similarly, I agree the plastic gears are not the ideal solution but they are difficult to damage if the machine is treated well -- i.e. don't try changing gear when the motor is running. Despite these limitations, though, spares are cheap and readily available from sources such as arceurotrade. If you are dead set against the gears and the old motor control boards, an alternative might be the new X1LP which is essentially the same machine, but with a direct drive DC brushless motor. More expensive but without the problems that put you off before. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbyhorse Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Have a look at Home and Workshops WEB site in Sidcup, have used them over the years with no problems. I use a BCA jig boring machine for a lot of my pattern making (Hobbyhorse) and would recommend one, keep well away from any machine from the Far East. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 keep well away from any machine from the Far East. Simon I disagree quite strongly with this as a bald, absolute statement. For many of us, particularly those of us based in areas where there is not a plethora of good used industrial or semi-industrial machinery available the choice is, realistically, between an Asian machine or no machine at all (assuming no inclination to build one from scratch starting from a pile of scrap aluminium and a flowerpot full of charcoal). Certainly some Asian machine tools are are bit rubbish. My Chinese mill-drill is a case in point. It's a lovely, heavy duty pillar drill but requires a staggering amount of fiddling to do good milling. It also required a full strip and rebuild when new, to remove all the casting sand and swarf from all its nooks and crannies and to set it up so the spindle was somewhere close to perpendicular to the table. It was, however, a milling machine big enough for what I wanted to do for about a quarter of what I'd have had to pay here for a Bridgeport fit for the scrapyard, if I could find one. On the other hand, I have a Taiwanese lathe, the obvious direct ancestor of the entire family of Chinese lathes of comparable size now available, and it is, in terms of quality, a thing of beauty. Fit, finish and feel is superb and it is more accurate than I'm capable of measuring. I bought it secondhand but, basically, unused for a price that, again locally, might have got me a shagged out Myford with half the change-wheels missing.but certainly wouldn't have got me one of our sought after, locally manufactured South-Bend clones in anything close to complete or useable condition. I also get to swing 12" workpieces in the chuck and have the power and tool travel to actually do something useful with them. It doesn't have the rigidity of a Colchester but that's OK as long as I don't take the p!$$ with depth of cut and it does, at least mean that I can actually move the thing if I need to. Moving on to machines which I don't own, my local FE college had a Korean Bridgeport knock off. It was more rigid, significantly more user friendly and overall superior machine than its vastly more expensive parents. So whilst I'm wary of Asian machine tools and regard them, unless proven otherwise, to be a loosely assembled kit of parts which will need, at least, a thorough check and some fettling before putting into service, I also recognise that their quality is improving all the time and that the machines now available from at least some importers are perfectly adequate for 95% of users. Given that the supply of anything else is now either staggeringly expensive or finite or both, many of us have no choice but at least some of us have not found that to be a major disadvantage. No, I don't like my mill-drill much and can't be bothered to do the substantial amount of work required to upgrade it but, when I eventually replace it it will be with a Chinese machine. I'll just be a little more discriminating before I buy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Boucher Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I disagree quite strongly with this as a bald, absolute statement. For many of us, particularly those of us based in areas where there is not a plethora of good used industrial or semi-industrial machinery available the choice is, realistically, between an Asian machine or no machine at all (assuming no inclination to build one from scratch starting from a pile of scrap aluminium and a flowerpot full of charcoal). Certainly some Asian machine tools are are bit rubbish. ><8 snip 8>< No, I don't like my mill-drill much and can't be bothered to do the substantial amount of work required to upgrade it but, when I eventually replace it it will be with a Chinese machine. I'll just be a little more discriminating before I buy. IMHO, the biggest problem with "Chinese" machines is the quality control. A friend went to buy a lathe, and there were two on the sales floor, same brand, same model, theoretically identical. One was an absolute mess, similar to what PatB described. The other was clean, tight, and well constructed. My friend said, "I'll take that one.", and after a little discussion with the shop manager, he was able to take the one on the showroom floor as opposed to one in a crate in the warehouse... I would suggest that you don't buy a machine sight unseen... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at Honley Tank Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 Thank you all Gentlemen for your interest and input. Richard Lane guided me to Sherline and that is looking good. Sound to be readily available via Millhill Supplies at Birmingham. OzzyO showed us some catalogues but all those companies are essentially selling the same Chinese M/c that I ditched. Nick suggested Arc Euro's X1LP which is on my short list but it's metric & while it's belt drive and a larger motor and table it's still that Chinese company that caused me problems. Simon suggested "Home and Workshops WEB site in Sidcup" and quoted my own view/experience of "far East" mfrs. I had a look at H&W but could only find industrial size millers. Pat B & Mike B argued for and against China et al and I'm sure they're right but I think I'll be going for an imperial machine, probably from USA. I may wait for the ME Exhibition at Harrogate in a few weeks time and have some 'touchy-feely' look before making a final choice. I will come back and tell you what I got - hopefully! Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill4brickwork Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 emco are a very well made austrian milling macine starts with a unimat the smallest an depending on what you want size wise. i have a compact 5 built like a tank.http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Metalworking-Milling-Welding-/11804/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=milling+machine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Boucher Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Thank you all Gentlemen for your interest and input. Richard Lane guided me to Sherline and that is looking good. Sound to be readily available via Millhill Supplies at Birmingham. OzzyO showed us some catalogues but all those companies are essentially selling the same Chinese M/c that I ditched. Nick suggested Arc Euro's X1LP which is on my short list but it's metric & while it's belt drive and a larger motor and table it's still that Chinese company that caused me problems. Simon suggested "Home and Workshops WEB site in Sidcup" and quoted my own view/experience of "far East" mfrs. I had a look at H&W but could only find industrial size millers. Pat B & Mike B argued for and against China et al and I'm sure they're right but I think I'll be going for an imperial machine, probably from USA. I may wait for the ME Exhibition at Harrogate in a few weeks time and have some 'touchy-feely' look before making a final choice. I will come back and tell you what I got - hopefully! Dave If you do go with a Sherline, you won't be disappointed. A few friends have these (one converted to 4 axis CNC) and they're nice little machines. While you're at it, I will suggest you buy this book: http://www.sherline.com/bookplug.htm Fantastic reference, even if you already know your way around machine tools. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul-2mm Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 There is a quite a large community of Taig/Peatol users online - http://www.cartertools.com/ and also a Yahoo group which is very useful. I don't own the mill but I do have the lathe and it is a solid and accurate machine, quite capable of machining quite large pieces of work. The mill seems to have a good following and the owner of Peatol (Peter?) has always been very helpful when I've rang him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 IMHO, the biggest problem with "Chinese" machines is the quality control. A friend went to buy a lathe, and there were two on the sales floor, same brand, same model, theoretically identical. One was an absolute mess, similar to what PatB described. The other was clean, tight, and well constructed. My friend said, "I'll take that one.", and after a little discussion with the shop manager, he was able to take the one on the showroom floor as opposed to one in a crate in the warehouse... I would suggest that you don't buy a machine sight unseen... Yep. QA/QC is the perennial issue with Chinese manufacture. On my mill-drill the basic design and engineering is fine, if a little basic. Everything's nice and chunky so it's fairly rigid and heavy enough to damp a lot of the vibration inherent in milling operations. The slides are all accurate and hand-scraped to a good standard; perhaps a little coarser than I'd expect to see from a craftsman in Birmingham rather than one in Beijing, but even and flat nonetheless. However, out of the crate, it was obvious that the individually quite decent components had been slung together without basic cleaning or even the most cursory attempt at adjustment, making the buyer responsible for final assembly to a reasonable standard. As noted above, having been put together properly, it can do good work but it requires a lot of fiddling, although much of this is a result of disadvantages inherent in trying to make what is, in reality, a beefed up pillar drill do milling work, rather than being due to its Chinese origin. The companies selling "good" Chinese machines are those who've accepted the shortcomings of local QC and either put their own experienced inspectors into the factory, with the authority necessary to do their job, or do the final assembly and adjustment themselves in the US or UK. It's notable that at least one of the UK importers (possibly Arc-Euro) offer machines either straight from the crate or fully fettled, the latter being almost double the price (IIRC). It seems like a hefty premium to pay but the price is still very low compared to an equivalent machine of non-Asian origin and it does spare the buyer the anxiety of gambling that "their" machine will be one of the good ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at Honley Tank Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 Well I raised this subject and would like to thank you all for helping me reach a decision as to where my money goes. Between you all, you led me to various web sites and I came down to almost a 'toss a coin' situation between Taig & Sherline. Thanks to Richard Lane for his suggestion of Sherline I decided that the Taig had the edge for two reasons that may seem silly - its heavier & therefore probable more stable, and it uses belt to pulley changes for differing speeds, i.e. non of that mysterious electronic stuff!!! A third reason was that it just a tiny bit larger and with a more substantial motor. Chatting to Peter at Peatol fixed my choice; he is delightfully helpful and to top it all he made me an offer which included many extras and it cost me less than the web page listed price. He is delivering it all personally next week. Thanks for your help lads. Dave at Honley Tank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
backofanenvelope Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Thanks for feedback Dave, I have been considering lathes and am now nearing purchasing one. The Peatol was high on the list but your positive feedback has tipped the balance. I will give Peter a ring to discuss requirements when I have all the ducks lined up Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at Honley Tank Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 Job Done! Peter personally delivered the new milling machine on Sunday, all in a Mini! With some 200 GBP of extras included I think I got a good deal and the machine certainly looks to be of high quality. In making space for it, the workshop is currently in a bit of a tip, and as I decided on adding more shelving and a permanent bench with lighting for the Boley lathe I've done no metal cutting with the new machine yet. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Photos please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 You just can't beat a Colchester lathe. If I had a 3 phase supply and plenty of dough, (to run a 7.5 hp motor) a Colchester Triumph 2000 with the long bed would be the one for me..... I think a Clarke lathe and mill from Machine Mart on their next VAT free weekend will be more realistic budget though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at Honley Tank Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 Ozzyo asked for pictures so I've just been and taken pics of the workshop. Unfortunately I'm not sure how to put pictures in forum content so I must direct you to my blog where I'm just about to add them. Sorry about that Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
backofanenvelope Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Dave, just add a post to this threads and in the full editor click on the Choose Files button at bottom, navigate to place you saved them to and hey presto. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at Honley Tank Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 Thanks to 'backofanenvelope' for the guidance. That's the new beasty having pinched the space where the Proxxon used to be. Next to it is the Myford and then the Boley:- The Proxxon is now in the diagonally opposite corner to before, here you find it trying to hide behind the pillar drill. Top right of this pic just catches the base of my Dremel bench stand:- Bench work is carried out here with all the hand tools to easy reach. That green thing is a scratch built B1; No. 1036 was delivered new to Gorton shed just in time to be an LNER loco (Dec 1947):- That's the full tour. Regards to all, Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
backofanenvelope Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Thanks for those pics and well done for working it out, aways good to see a workshop Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Hello Dave, all, now I'm not a fan of H&S but one thing that I would say is get a F.ing guard around the drive belt on the mill, before you scalp yourself. Not having a guard on the lathe drive belt is a bit bad but, all you will get in that is your fingers. You have ten (including your thumbs) so to loose one or two wont matter. Some guards are good but some guards can be a PITA. OzzyO. PS. don't bother with safety specs as you have two eyes so loosing one wont matter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Boucher Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 PS. don't bother with safety specs as you have two eyes so loosing one wont matter. While its pretty clear OzzyO was being sarcastic... I have a pair of safety glasses with flute marks in one lens. I was making a cut when I heard a "Bang", followed by a whack in the face, and then the sound of metal hitting something across the shop. The 1/2" endmill snapped somehow, bounced off the lens of my safety glasses, and then landed about 20 feet away on the other side of the shop. The "whack in the face" was my safety glasses being pushed back against the bridge of my nose. I definitely would have lost the eye if I didn't have the glasses on, and if it had hit about 2" in just about any other direction it would have done some serious damage. I was very surprised, as it was only about a .020 cut... When I went back and looked at the lens, the scratches in the lens from where the flutes hit were pretty obvious... Took me a few weeks before I got up the courage to turn the mill on again... I've also had a 3" long piece of 2x4 jump up off my tablesaw and bounce off my cheek as well as the safety glasses. That one caused 8 stitches and left a pretty good black eye, but no damage to the eye itself. If you want to see an even uglier photo than I usually take, showing the extent of the damage, go to page 2 of this document: http://neme-s.org/nemes%20gazette_files/g189.pdf. Its the newsletter from my model engineering club where I wrote up an article on what I did wrong and now to not do it again. (and remember that picture is what happened WITH safety glasses...) Needless to say, I believe in safety glasses... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black5f Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 If you want quality and accuracy, small and long lived, (and Imperial!), Sherline is the way to go. They are powerful enough to cut to their capacity, I've cut 45mm diameter disc wheels on mind from 2inch extruded cast iron with no problems and a really very fine machines originally developed for the racing industry. Re Chinese, they all look the same but are made to different levels of QA and acceptability / grades depending on the importers requirements. I have found Chester and Axminster good for the price, some others although they look the same can be very rough. I have a Sherline lathe of ten years and it's still like the day I bought it, made in the US, very high quality and made out of proper materials. I have a large Chester DB11 that has proved to be a good work horse and I am also very pleased with given it's a cheap lathe. Don't trust Chinese imperial though Heard lots of issues with gear driven units, the modern variable speed DC based drives seem very long lived. And .... foresight is preferable to no sight! Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian@stenochs Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Hi, There aren't very many British made small mills but Cowells still make a very capable machine in Norwich. I was lucky to get an almost new Cowells milling machine from Ebay. It is very well built mostly cast iron and very rigid for a small machine. I did have a bigger Nyrock, Korean I think, which took up too much space so passed it on to my son. I used to do live steam models but don't need the bigger capacity now. The Cowells does anything I need for 7mm. Happy modelling, Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.