robmcg Posted March 26, 2019 Author Share Posted March 26, 2019 (edited) Anther antidote to Lord Nelson purchasing malaise... Hornby Jouef 241P.25 The French side of the boat trains? Runs perfectly straight from the box, too. Box-opening being the limit of my skill. I nearly bought a Kitmaster 00 scale version of one of these once. I think they were the most powerful steam express loco in Europe... 800-ton express trains at 80mph+ or 130km/hr. Only about 30 built, most post-war French steam being US-built 2-8-2s. Probably wrong on details.... Another view, a stunning model! I must resurrect some of my French language skills! Mais ouis, maintenant, je suis un imbecile.... Edited March 26, 2019 by robmcg 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted March 26, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 26, 2019 Achtung ! Spitfire. 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted March 26, 2019 Author Share Posted March 26, 2019 Good grief with HMS Rodney and the Bismarck this is becoming very confusing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted March 26, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 26, 2019 35 minutes ago, robmcg said: Good grief with HMS Rodney and the Bismarck this is becoming very confusing! Me making it even more confusing... Illustrious 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted March 27, 2019 Author Share Posted March 27, 2019 (edited) Locomotive à vapeur formidable légèrement imparfaite (slightly flawed but very powerful), Calais to Marseilles... probably should have bought a green one! Would have had a Merchant Navy from Victoria. Terry Thomas would have understood... This design owed a lot to Anrde Chapelon and I'm wonder which if any British engines approached Chapelon's efficient use of steam without the plumbing. A rebuilt Patriot comes close methinks. Edited March 27, 2019 by robmcg 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 I've just purchased an excellent, used R2687 'Australian Tour' Flying Scotsman. This is how I remember Scottie when 'I were a lad' in the early 70's, onwards, and it looks absolutely stunning. Very pleased with it - but yet to test it as it was received at work, and I've not taken her home yet. Al. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 16 hours ago, robmcg said: ...This design owed a lot to Andre Chapelon and I'm wonder which if any British engines approached Chapelon's efficient use of steam without the plumbing. A rebuilt Patriot comes close methinks. Nowhere near. The available evidence suggests that the A4 equipped with it's high superheater ratio, large steam passages and valves, and the double Kylchap ejector - all Chapelon influence - was about as good as UK design got for using least steam (and coal as a direct consequence) per unit power output in express service. (In the BR interchange trials the A4 was critiqued for not evaporating as much water per pound of coal as some other designs: the fact that it used less coal as well, and that this was enabled by evaporating less water, seemingly incomprehensible to people supposedly expert in the field. One of the GW's inspectors was amazed at the way an A4 accelerated up Hemerdon bank in a way he had never before experienced, while maintaining a full glass of water. A King would have had the water out of sight in the bottom nut if handled in that fashion was his comment. Least water used per unit power output = better.) If only a Chapelon design could have been test run in BR's trials: that would have made the fur fly as it went about its work on 70% of the coal consumption of an A4. Skill and maintenance intensive mark you, the French way was all about making the most of expensive coal imports, by means of superior design and classroom engineering theory training to an examination pass before you got to fire or drive a large steam loco, and the locos were not run the mileages and availabilities expected of UK steam. Dick Hardy was very admiring of the results achieved, and used some of what he learned from the French in BR's conversion from steam to diesel and electric traction. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted March 28, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 28, 2019 Proof that I do run loco's occasionally Fire up the Oil Burner Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 We’ll be treated to flying aeroplanes next! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted March 28, 2019 Author Share Posted March 28, 2019 9 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said: Nowhere near. The available evidence suggests that the A4 equipped with it's high superheater ratio, large steam passages and valves, and the double Kylchap ejector - all Chapelon influence - was about as good as UK design got for using least steam (and coal as a direct consequence) per unit power output in express service. (In the BR interchange trials the A4 was critiqued for not evaporating as much water per pound of coal as some other designs: the fact that it used less coal as well, and that this was enabled by evaporating less water, seemingly incomprehensible to people supposedly expert in the field. One of the GW's inspectors was amazed at the way an A4 accelerated up Hemerdon bank in a way he had never before experienced, while maintaining a full glass of water. A King would have had the water out of sight in the bottom nut if handled in that fashion was his comment. Least water used per unit power output = better.) If only a Chapelon design could have been test run in BR's trials: that would have made the fur fly as it went about its work on 70% of the coal consumption of an A4. Skill and maintenance intensive mark you, the French way was all about making the most of expensive coal imports, by means of superior design and classroom engineering theory training to an examination pass before you got to fire or drive a large steam loco, and the locos were not run the mileages and availabilities expected of UK steam. Dick Hardy was very admiring of the results achieved, and used some of what he learned from the French in BR's conversion from steam to diesel and electric traction. Yes I was wrong in my assertion about rebuilt Patriots... here is some views of this lovely Jouef 241P 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 I think a couple of Flying Scotsman models should be in there - just received my favourite 2 - been looking for ages but finally found them: R3443 (BR & current preservation) and R2687 (my preferred state) Al. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 Not sure about the wisdom of exactly replicating photos... it becomes very hard to be exact, with angle, focal length of lens, all sorts of things, not to mention lighting, but here is the Hornby Jouef 241P.25 looking grand. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted March 31, 2019 Author Share Posted March 31, 2019 On 29/03/2019 at 03:38, 34theletterbetweenB&D said: Nowhere near. The available evidence suggests that the A4 equipped with it's high superheater ratio, large steam passages and valves, and the double Kylchap ejector - all Chapelon influence - was about as good as UK design got for using least steam (and coal as a direct consequence) per unit power output in express service. (In the BR interchange trials the A4 was critiqued for not evaporating as much water per pound of coal as some other designs: the fact that it used less coal as well, and that this was enabled by evaporating less water, seemingly incomprehensible to people supposedly expert in the field. One of the GW's inspectors was amazed at the way an A4 accelerated up Hemerdon bank in a way he had never before experienced, while maintaining a full glass of water. A King would have had the water out of sight in the bottom nut if handled in that fashion was his comment. Least water used per unit power output = better.) If only a Chapelon design could have been test run in BR's trials: that would have made the fur fly as it went about its work on 70% of the coal consumption of an A4. Skill and maintenance intensive mark you, the French way was all about making the most of expensive coal imports, by means of superior design and classroom engineering theory training to an examination pass before you got to fire or drive a large steam loco, and the locos were not run the mileages and availabilities expected of UK steam. Dick Hardy was very admiring of the results achieved, and used some of what he learned from the French in BR's conversion from steam to diesel and electric traction. This got me thinking, having read Dick Hardy's book a while ago I skimmed over the pages about French steam, but now my interest is awakened. I am wondering what if any modern HO RTR 231 or even 232? engines exist which are of a comparable standard to the Hornby Jouef 241P? I read a bit about US steam too and have a FB page 'US Articulated Steam Locomotives'. I think the post-war NYC Niagara included some design elements drawn from Chapelon. Better not mention Swindon when it comes to being efficient with coal... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted March 31, 2019 Author Share Posted March 31, 2019 We shall have to convert Toboldlygo to Gallic tastes... 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted March 31, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 31, 2019 8 minutes ago, robmcg said: We shall have to convert Toboldlygo to Gallic tastes... The world can freeze over in multiple Nuclear Winter's and you still won't convert me :p Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted April 1, 2019 Author Share Posted April 1, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, toboldlygo said: The world can freeze over in multiple Nuclear Winter's and you still won't convert me :p Well, I do have a 30850 Lord Nelson but as far as I know these were kept rather clean until perhaps 1960-61. I have become interested in French steam and they are definitely an acquired taste. Aesthetics very much the eye of the beholder. I wonder if there's a pill for that? You know, involuntarily mumbling in French, other assorted symptoms. I'm after a Roco 231E at a good price sound not wanted, but even then the pleasure in the search... the engines themselves, hmm, some may think them beautiful. Don't mention the Leader! Gresley had some ideas which the French also used, feedwater heaters on the P2,,, the LNER express engines might have ended up like this. Edited April 1, 2019 by robmcg 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted April 1, 2019 Author Share Posted April 1, 2019 The P2 was after all ever-so-slightly Gallic.. The above being rather fanciful as a post-war thing because they all had Bugatti fronts by 1939? So we were able to travel behind Bulleid's Merchant Navy or one of these... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, robmcg said: We shall have to convert Toboldlygo to Gallic tastes... Gallic? Wikipedia https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauloises I misread that as Gauloises, though a couple of puffs from a Gauloises ciggy would give an authentically French appearance (and aroma) to any model of a French loco...... Ok, having got the Poisson d'Avril thing over and done with, I feel that all this external flummery is the sort of thing that Other Countries get up to. A British Locomotive should ALWAYS present a smooth, elegant appearance with the minimum of external pipework! For example I give you the pretty GER S69(1500)/LNER B12/3 as produced by Hornby Hornby B12 R3430 (Image sourced from Hattons) https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products340pxwide/R3430_3197443_Qty1_1.jpg Now, I feel that someone in the LNER was having a lark around on an inter-war April Fools Day when they inflicted this monstrosity of Gallic ingenuity on the poor B12. Does it add to the external dignity of the class? Did it make the host locomotive any more efficient? Nahhhh.... LNER Encyclopedia https://www.lner.info/locos/B/b12.php Do you think that it was something Bulleid put forward? If so, I bet Thompson encouraged him to do it..... Edited April 1, 2019 by Hroth a bit of a tidy up and typo removal, a bit of word-reordering too... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted April 1, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 1, 2019 Chapelton was one of the greatest of all the steam locomotive engineers and in a sense shared something in common with Rudolf Diesel in combining thermodynamics and theoretical science with practical application in a way which wasn't that common. The irony of Chapel on along with his more anonymous contemporaries in the USA was that he raised the steam locomotive to a higher level and took the technology pretty much as far as it would go (at least the classic stephenson locomotive) yet it was already an obsolete technology that had really had its day. It is interesting to read papers from the likes of Baldwin and Alco in the late 30's forecasting a bright future for steam and claiming they'd only scratched the surface of the technology. I suspect future generations will look back to our era and wonder why so many people still saw the IC engine as the best solution. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted April 1, 2019 Author Share Posted April 1, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, jjb1970 said: Chapelton was one of the greatest of all the steam locomotive engineers and in a sense shared something in common with Rudolf Diesel in combining thermodynamics and theoretical science with practical application in a way which wasn't that common. The irony of Chapel on along with his more anonymous contemporaries in the USA was that he raised the steam locomotive to a higher level and took the technology pretty much as far as it would go (at least the classic stephenson locomotive) yet it was already an obsolete technology that had really had its day. It is interesting to read papers from the likes of Baldwin and Alco in the late 30's forecasting a bright future for steam and claiming they'd only scratched the surface of the technology. I suspect future generations will look back to our era and wonder why so many people still saw the IC engine as the best solution. Um, cheap oil....? Individual cars. GM style production/consumption/fashion.... Edited April 1, 2019 by robmcg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted April 1, 2019 Author Share Posted April 1, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, Hroth said: Gallic? I misread that as Gauloises, though a couple of puffs from a Gauloises ciggy would give an authentically French appearance (and aroma) to any model of a French loco...... Ok, having got the Poisson d'Avril thing over and done with, I feel that all this external flummery is the sort of thing that Other Countries get up to. A British Locomotive should ALWAYS present a smooth, elegant appearance with the minimum of external pipework! For example I give you the pretty GER S69(1500)/LNER B12/3 as produced by Hornby Hornby B12 R3430 (Image sourced from Hattons) https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products340pxwide/R3430_3197443_Qty1_1.jpg Now, I feel that someone in the LNER was having a lark around on an inter-war April Fools Day when they inflicted this monstrosity of Gallic ingenuity on the poor B12. Does it add to the external dignity of the class? Did it make the host locomotive any more efficient? Nahhhh.... LNER Encyclopedia https://www.lner.info/locos/B/b12.php Do you think that it was something Bulleid put forward? If so, I bet Thompson encouraged him to do it..... I agree that the B12 was not improved by external feedwater heaters and such, but I think there would have been some, shall say, interest, if a Chapelon 231 was to haul the Fleche d'Or from London.... possibly of the rioting kind. As I understand it the nations of France, Italy and Germany were rather protective of their regional styles, fashions and proclivities. It didn't do Chapelon any good when the PLM or whatever resisted his designs. I just bought a rather old Rivarossi model... Je suis un imbecile. Mais j'aime ça Not bad for 1970. Still goes well. Has been detailed and painted a bit, and edited a bit. Edited April 1, 2019 by robmcg 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor7598 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Maybe Hornby's H class tank should feature in their best ever models. 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor7598 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 For my money, Hornby's 1935 Maunsell BCK as converted to a push/pull driving trailer is their best ever coach. If only they would produce this vehicle in it's original form. This model is flawless. 3 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted April 3, 2019 Author Share Posted April 3, 2019 (edited) While agreeing with the H class sentiment, sometimes I just can't help myself... Hornby Jouef 241P.25 Edited April 3, 2019 by robmcg 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted April 3, 2019 Author Share Posted April 3, 2019 (edited) If longevity is any measure of recent RTR steam, the rebuilt Merchant Navy of 2000 must rate highly. Don't mention blue box WDs (equally brilliant, moreso if you count adhesion). edited a tiny bit... Edited April 3, 2019 by robmcg 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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