Train spotting at Finsbury Square

[31A]

Steve,

 

How about a nice update on Finsbury Square.

 

Anyway a belated Happy New Year to you mate.

 

Regards,Derek.

 

Hi Derek, thanks, and a Happy New Year to you, too!

 

There's a challenge; leave it with me and I'll see what I can do.  To be honest, I'm not sure a great deal has changed since I put the pictures up of the goods yard area in April, but I'll see what I can come up with.

 

I've had to repair a few soldered joints on the lever frame recently so I hope that isn't an indication that it's about to start falling apart after about 20 years use, and apart from that it's mainly been a question of opening boxes and weathering the contents.

 

Cheers,

Steve

[CUTLER2579]

After reading my Tea leaves I detect a photograph of O2 Class 63975 with flush sided tender appearing on this thread on or around the 23rd of next month..

However they are also suggesting 4,7,25,49 50 &51 for Saturdays lottery numbers, so I could be wrong.It's those blooming PG things being mucked about by chimps. 

 

Regards,Derek.

[glo41f]

Steve

 

What a marvellous system you have made. It  positively reeks of the area (where \i too worked for a number of years.)  You are to be congratulate in some very clever use of commercial items which you have tweaked very well. Inspirational stuff. Well done.

 

Martin Long

Stationmaster Happisburgh

[mullie]

Just found this fantastic thread hence you will find a large number of 'likes' from me I'm afraid. Like everyone else I will now look forward to the next update. A great layout.

[31A]

Thanks Mullie!  Looks as though I should take some more pictures soon.  At the moment the railway room is in some chaos, and the controllers have been disconnected, due to work going on elsewhere in my house, but I hope to have it up and running again soon.

[danstercivicman]

Just found this thread.... what an amazing layout!

[31A]

Nice of you to say so, Dan!  Perhaps I should put some more pictures up although it is difficult to think of things related to the actual layout which have changed much since I took those; however I have sometimes posted pictures of locos, rolling stock and signals for the layout in my other threads.

 

Many thanks,

Steve

[danstercivicman]

Please add pics

 

I'm currently running my minories layout (Birmingham Hope St) but am planning a replacement but struggling to incorporate goods. I have a Dairy on my layout but wanted to use vans and expand it so I'm really glad I came across your thread!

 

It's given me food for thought

[TrevorP1]

I don't know how I managed to miss this one! So much of interest. Through my new project I've learned a lot about this part of the world and this really captures the feel. 

Edited June 10, 2017 by TrevorP1

[danstercivicman]

An amazinv layout! I'm wondering how you find the arrangement of slips-any running issues with the steam locos?

[31A]

An amazinv layout! I'm wondering how you find the arrangement of slips-any running issues with the steam locos?

 

 

Thank you; interesting that you should mention the slips.

 

At the time I started the layout, probably about 20 years ago!), I decided to use Peco Code 75 track and have been pleased with it, but the range didn't include live frog slips, so I was stuck with dead frog ones despite misgivings.

 

Running is generally OK, although I have had to pay attention to the pick ups of steam locos, which can range from just making sure all the pick ups touch the wheels all the time, to adding extra ones to tenders.  I'm a big fan of the sprung axles that Bachmann (used to) fit to a lot of their locos, and also pick ups on tender wheels; I can never understand why people take them off!

 

The most temperamental are the six-coupled tank engines; I have four Hornby N2s in use and have modified their centre axles to be sprung, which is quite easy given the plastic construction of their mechanisms, and having done so they become quite reliable.  However other six-coupled locos (e.g. Bachmann K3s) never falter despite having only the six pick ups they came with; it may be something to do with the length of the wheelbase.  The L1s benefit from the pick ups on the bogies, and passenger train 'running' moves are generally OK as long as drivers are fairly confident at running briskly and braking sharp, in 'suburban' fashion!

 

The most critical are the station pilots which can be any of Bachmann 08, Hornby J50, or Hornby J52 with Bachmann 57xx mechanism (and a Bachmann 03 on the 'goods' side).  Of these, the 08 and the J52 both have sprung centre axles and never falter; the 08 being slightly the better at dead slow speeds.  The Hornby J50 is more temperamental thanks to its rigidly fixed wheelbase.  The design doesn't lend itself to easy modification although I have been able to introduce some vertical play to the middle axle by trapping small washers on the retaining screws between the keeper plate and the frame block, which has improved matters, as has running in.

 

I see the Peco slip points do now have live frogs but I don't feel inclined to dig the lot up now to replace them, and the electrics within the lever frame are complicated enough already, with microswitches worked by the point levers to change polarity of the ordinary points and to switch the supply to the slips from one section to another depending which way they lie.

[Jamiel]

The Peco live frogs are good, but micro switches attached to the motors are a pain, unless absolutely perfectly in line, not easy to do, they can jam the solenoid.

I am about to re-lay part of my station entrance, and have bought a hex frog juicer from Digitrains. This senses if there is a short on a frog, and switches polarity in a fraction of a second, and apparently before a DCC controller can detect a short and switch off. As it is being sold by Digitrains I think it will be OK, I couldn't imagine that they would sell something that caused DCC problems.

They cost a more than micro switches, but experience of those has not been good on the whole. I am more of a builder than a runner with the layout, so it doesn't get run for weeks on end, and get chance to cease up.

 

Probably a little while off being completed, but I will post about how effective it is.

http://www.digitrains.co.uk/ecommerce/dcc-accessories/circuit-protection-and-power-management/hfj003u-hex-frog-juicer-universal.aspx

Still pulling up a lot of points on a finished layout would be a hard task to consider.

Another option for DCC users would be stay alive capacitors, but not for a DC layout.

Jamie

 

[31A]

Thanks Jamie!

 

Perhaps I should mention, the points on Finsbury Square are operated from a lever frame via sub baseboard linkages using steel wire and plastic cranks intended for radio controlled models.  The micro switches are within the lever frame and operated directly by the levers; as well as changing the polarity of the live frog points, they also connect the traction current supply to the slips to the section of line to the right, depending on the route selected.

 

Here are a couple of pictures of the frame (and part of the control panel), one of which shows the back opened and the micro switches inside.  The levers which work two micro switches have a metal 'cross piece' near the pivot, which bears on both switches.

 

At the moment no. 29 lever works the only operational semaphore signal, which is also worked mechanically via a thread.  When I made the frame I intended to extend it on either side with enough levers to work all the signals as well, hence the numbers start at 20!

 

On the control panel, the centre off slide switches connect the sections to either the left or right hand controllers, with the centre position being 'off'.

 

 

 

I'm afraid DCC is beyond me, I like to keep things simple!

 

[Jamiel]

What a lovely and much more true to the original way of operating your layout. I am sure polarity switches in your method would be far superior to the Peco solenoids and switches.

Thanks for the photos.

Jamie

[danstercivicman]

Thank you for the awesome reply and info. I have never wired points up but will be doing so for my next layout... I've also ordered s book on layout wiring.... currently mine is fed ala toy trains and the points and three switches control the sections...

 

I've posted my new idea up and any advice most welcome

 

Keep up the good work

[31A]

Much excitement for the spotters at Finsbury Square this morning - a new A3 to cop; one with an odd name and funny new smoke deflectors!  Most said it was the first time 'Woolwinder' had been seen at Finsbury Square but some older ones were scornful of that, saying it had been a Top Shed loco since 1956 and must have been there before.  When challenged to 'prove it', however, they couldn't.  Anyhow, the fireman said they'd be coming off at Finsbury Park anyway, as somebody had forgotten to coal the tender.

 

 

A few minutes later, along came 'Gladiateur'; a Leeds engine but nobody copped it.

 

 

The spotters had noticed recently that the trains seemed to be running to a timetable, whereas previously things had just seemed to happen haphazardly.  They'd also noticed that one day all the expresses would be pulled by A3s, another day it'd be all A4s and then another time they'd see nothing but Diesels.  A friendly driver had tried to explain that this was due to things called  "Links" and "Cyclic Diagrams", which meant that they might see the same engine several days running (but pulling different trains) and then its "Diagram" would take it to another part of the railway and they wouldn't see it again for weeks.

Edited January 12, 2018 by 31A

[cravensdmufan]

Very nice although not quite prototypical of BR's offices at Finsbury Square - it was where the banking unit was based at one time, part of BR which reportedly consistently made a profit (in the short term money market) in the 1970s.

Correct.

 

22/25 Finsbury Square was the location of BRB HQ Director of Funds, where I started my BR career.  Situated there because of close proximity to the City's banks. Williams and Glynn's being the Board's bankers.  There was a team of dealers there much like a stock market - lending and borrowing funds.  A very important function.  Also it was where all freight  and parcels money was banked and the credits were allocated back out to the BR regions.

 

22/25 was also the Headquarters of BR Hovercraft Limited - subsequently Seaspeed.

 

The building was part of Royal London House; BR rented officed from RL Insurance

 

I believe BRB eventually moved those offices to 50 Liverpool Street. I had transferred to another region by then.

[cravensdmufan]

Ah thank you, so that's what goes on behind the frosted windows of this office then!

 

P1000196RMWeb.JPG

 

 

P1000196aRMWeb.JPG

 

I think the real one might have had an address in Artillery Lane?

Brilliant work on the glazing.

 

Having actually worked at BRB Finsbury Square, I can confirm that the offices were very busy.  But it was rumours of certain lunchtime activities in the basement that intrigued me - I was a very innocent 16 year old at the time so cannot comment futher!

[31A]

Brilliant work on the glazing.

 

Having actually worked at BRB Finsbury Square, I can confirm that the offices were very busy.  But it was rumours of certain lunchtime activities in the basement that intrigued me - I was a very innocent 16 year old at the time so cannot comment futher!

 

 

I think that'd be the address we sent the American Express voucher copies to when I worked in Travel Centres.

[ianblenk]

Brilliant in all respects!!

 

Ian B

[danstercivicman]

Nice to see

 

Running looks great

Edited January 12, 2018 by danstercivicman

[danstercivicman]

The goods depot here doesn't handle coal class traffic, but a short way up the line a Charrington's depot is only connected to the Up line, so having dropped off the fulls, the trip has to continue to the terminus with the empties in order to run round and make its way back to Ferme Park. To make this easier, it usually has a brake van at each end. Today D8046, one of Hornsey's English Electric Type 1s, has the job.

 

P1000202RMWeb.JPG

 

A lull in proceedings, and time for a stroll towards the buffer stops. This affords a view of the rear of the main station building, and shows where part of the canopy over Platform 1 adjacent to the East Side Offices hasn't been replaced after wartime damage (in other words, I haven't made it yet).

 

P1000203RMWeb.JPG

 

Back at the platform ends, the evening rush hour is getting into full swing. A Westinghouse-fitted L1 is a bit unusual, but it looks to be well cared for.

 

P1000204RMWeb.JPG

 

But Oh Dear! There seems to be a question mark over the punctual departure of the evening City & Cambridge Buffet Express!

 

P1000200RMWeb.JPG

Stunning!

[31A]

Thanks for the kind comments, chaps.

 

Finsbury Square is served three times daily by good workings, and the Goods Loco link includes 12 locos for 3 diagrams so it's a long time before they come round again.  65390 is a recent addition to the link, so it was a cop this morning for most of the spotters.  The more observant ones noticed that it had an extra pipe along the boiler compared with most J15s, but had no Westinghouse pump.

 

 

Most traffic for Finsbury Square depot itself is carried in vans and opens of various kinds, and Conflats.  However sometimes the trip includes other wagons which are not destined for Finsbury Square, and these have to be shunted from the incoming train to the outgoing which makes things more interesting.  This time it's a couple of empty Engineer's wagons, which the shiny new 204HP diesel is sorting out while 65390 and her crew take refreshment in Platform 3.

 

 

Shunting finished, 65390 sets off with the new train; the vans on the right will be placed alongside the warehouse when the pilot has been released from behind the outgoing train.  In the meantime, an outer suburban passenger train has arrived in Platform 3, and a Baby Deltic has backed down onto it.

[TrevorP1]

Good to see activity at Finsbury Square again. I was beginning to fear that the BRB accountants had been taking an unhealthy interest!

[31A]

Thank you, Trevor!  Surprisingly enough, it has so far escaped the accountants.  Having drawn up a timetable (or more accurately, sequence), operating it has become a lot more interesting.  I'll put some more pics up soon.