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Train spotting at Finsbury Square


31A
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6 hours ago, 31A said:

I've not updated this page for a while; not that I haven't been doing anything, in fact I've been doing quite a lot!  I like to wait until a project is finished before I post about it, in case to doesn't get finished.

 

One of the things I've been doing, which is nearly finished, is making a new signal box to go next to the girder bridge.  There have been a couple of 'place markers' in this area over the years but neither really suited.  I was looking at the Wills wooden signal box kit, which is quite good model of a Great Eastern box, and was struck by its similarity with some Great Northern boxes.  So I got one a few weeks ago (thanks to Monk Bar Model Shop in lockdown) and have been modifying it.

 

I've made it up to resemble one of the boxes that had the lower storey reinforced by brickwork as a World War 2 air raid precaution.  A prototype I had in mind was Belle Isle Up box outside King's Cross:

 

https://rail-books.co.uk/collections/magazines/products/london-railway-record-number-51-99990510

 

There are several differences to the Wills kit, some obvious, others less so.  Apart from the brickwork, possibly the most obvious is that the doors on both floors are in the middle of the end rather than towards the left hand side.  So I modified the left hand end accordingly:

 

IMG_3353.jpg.137c79cdf18e44a4b3c28135b78dd351.jpg

 

IMG_3355.jpg.5fdfbe2eca967c4d85a5aa44a014b227.jpg

 

Less obvious is the way the roof overhangs more than shown in the kit, both at front and rear and at the ends; to allow for this I reduced the height of the sides and ends above the windows.  I also altered the pitch of the roof whilst cutting down the ends.  This picture shows how much I took off the front, compared to the unmodified rear side.  In order that the staircase would still fit, I made up the difference by adding height at the bottom when I did the brickwork.

 

IMG_3354.jpg.8a5bfdebd1c6e9df4c219ef06e90404a.jpg

 

Another obvious difference is that there is a lavatory on the balcony; I made this from Plastikard:

 

IMG_3357.jpg.b1843f2b20c0eb12d94963dd2dd4a1c7.jpg

 

Then putting it all together, encased the base in brickwork.  The rather quirky plumbing is based on the photo of the real box; mostly made up from single core electrical cable of different sizes.  The new roof is made from Wills moulded slate sheets.  The window cleaning platform (which seems to have been no more than a single plank in this case) is from etch scrap with brackets from brass wire.

 

IMG_3379.jpg.cacb134a359c90cab547583e359ba53d.jpg

 

A few pictures of the finished model.  I've used a Wills signal box interior kit to detail the interior; most of this won't be visible but I've modelled one of the front windows open to allow at least some view of the inside!  Not sure about the nameboards; in the past I've used the  smallest size of Slater's moulded alphabets for this, but didn't have enough of the right characters left so I've printed these on the computer.  I might replace them if I can get some more Slater's letters.  I suppose I'll have to weather it eventually, but for the moment can't bring myself to!

 

IMG_3404.jpg.45c2a1529f015c8cac45aa4b4254dc7d.jpg

 

IMG_3405.jpg.f563cacd6178c72fe7c236b6acc5dd96.jpg

 

IMG_3402.jpg.bb38cfbab92cb4df5d6512713d90f7dc.jpg

 

 

That's a wonderful 'box Steve.

 

The only observation I'd make (not a criticism) is size of the 'border' around the letters. Either the name board itself is too big or the letters too small. 

 

I'll have a word with Ian Wilson (Pacific Models) and see what he can produce for you - complimentary, of course. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited by Tony Wright
typo error
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34 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

That's a wonderful 'box Steve.

 

The only observation I'd make (not a criticism) is size of the 'border' around the letters. Either the name board itself is too big or the letters too small. 

 

I'll have a word with Ian Wilson (Pacific Models) and see what he can produce for you - complimentary, of course. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Thank you Tony, yes I'm not happy with that at all.

 

The size of the letters is about right but I was trying to use the Apple spreadsheet software to make a 'text box', but wasn't able to edit the margins around the text to get the borders near enough to the text.  Hence the board is slightly too tall (should be about 10" in reality I think).  I think I could have done it in Excel but don't have that on my computer.  Sorry that all sounds a bit computer geeky, but if I really was a computer geek I'd probably have been able to do a better job!

 

In the past I've made signal box nameboards using the smallest size of Slater's moulded alphabets, but didn't have enough left for this one.  If I can get some more of them I think I'll go down that route but thank you for the recommendation.

 

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10 hours ago, 31A said:

Not sure about the nameboards; in the past I've used the  smallest size of Slater's moulded alphabets for this, but didn't have enough of the right characters left so I've printed these on the computer.

I know that feeling Steve. A few years ago I picked up a couple of sets on eBay and a couple more from a shop in Cardiff (I think) so I've got enough to keep me going. I use them for loco smokebox numbers. The typeface isn't right but I like the relief that the mouldings give. Furthermore, I've been doing that for over 40 years so changing now would be too hard!

 

Because I mostly use numbers I have a few spare letters. Let me know if you'd like some for City Road Sth or any others. 

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11 hours ago, 31A said:

 

Thanks Doc!

 

I'm not sure it's a method I'd want to use to paint miles!

 

I've tried to make it look as though it's relatively new (WW2) brickwork probably using cheap bricks and put up in a hurry.  I think they just built brick walls round the existing bases of wooden signal boxes.  So the basic colour is a (quite random) mixture of Humbrol Matt Brick Red 70 and Matt Orange Lining 82.  Then before that had dried I went over it picking out individual bricks with the two colours on their own and also using Matt Flesh 61.  When that was dry I ran very thin Matt Pale Stone 121 into the mortar lines and let it flow down through the mortar lines over the whole wall.  Then when that was nearly dry rubbed over the top of the bricks with cotton buds to remove the mortar colour from the top of the bricks and leave it in the mortar lines.

 

I was quite pleased with the result and it was OK for a small building but I don't think I'd have the patience to do it over a large area!

 

Hi Steve

 

Signal boxes in the London area were given outer brick bases in WW2 as a air raid precaution so the leverframe would be protected.

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7 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I know that feeling Steve. A few years ago I picked up a couple of sets on eBay and a couple more from a shop in Cardiff (I think) so I've got enough to keep me going. I use them for loco smokebox numbers. The typeface isn't right but I like the relief that the mouldings give. Furthermore, I've been doing that for over 40 years so changing now would be too hard!

 

Because I mostly use numbers I have a few spare letters. Let me know if you'd like some for City Road Sth or any others. 

 

Thank you, that's very kind.  Interesting that you've had to resort to eBay.  The ones I've got the remains of are labelled 1.5mm (and seem to be that size when measured), but the smallest ones listed currently seem to be 2mm; are they different?  The real letters on GNR signal box nameboards were about 4" I think.

 

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10 hours ago, 31A said:

 

Thank you Tony, yes I'm not happy with that at all.

 

The size of the letters is about right but I was trying to use the Apple spreadsheet software to make a 'text box', but wasn't able to edit the margins around the text to get the borders near enough to the text.  Hence the board is slightly too tall (should be about 10" in reality I think).  I think I could have done it in Excel but don't have that on my computer.  Sorry that all sounds a bit computer geeky, but if I really was a computer geek I'd probably have been able to do a better job!

 

In the past I've made signal box nameboards using the smallest size of Slater's moulded alphabets, but didn't have enough left for this one.  If I can get some more of them I think I'll go down that route but thank you for the recommendation.

 

Good morning Steve,

 

This is the board which Ian Wilson made for Bytham's main line box (both ends).

 

1432074804_A1DJH60156GREATCENTRAL04.jpg.9ed29f6d32d4250767e8b6fa7167a921.jpg

 

He generated it on his computer, and then just printed it out. It's not in relief, but that can't be noticed. 

 

The 'box was built by Bob Dawson. One thing which has intrigued me is the colour of the barge boards in BR days. Some GN boxes had them cream, but some were green. 

 

Just out of interest, Ian also made a full-sized replica in wood.

 

1363178078_Overallview4060149.jpg.6016199682ee1ff4ef050d9046a1977f.jpg

 

It was a Christmas present one year. 

 

One of the originals is in the Tobie Norris pub in Stamford.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Steve,

 

This is the board which Ian Wilson made for Bytham's main line box (both ends).

 

 

 

He generated it on his computer, and then just printed it out. It's not in relief, but that can't be noticed. 

 

The 'box was built by Bob Dawson. One thing which has intrigued me is the colour of the barge boards in BR days. Some GN boxes had them cream, but some were green. 

 

Just out of interest, Ian also made a full-sized replica in wood.

 

 

 

It was a Christmas present one year. 

 

One of the originals is in the Tobie Norris pub in Stamford.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

Thank you, Tony, that does look very good.

 

The colour of the barge boards had me pondering for quite a while I must admit.  There doesn't seem to have been any hard and fast rule for it, but looking at photographs I came to the opinion that cream was more usual, although photographs of the box mine is most closely based on (Belle Isle Up, e.g. Book of the Great Northern Vol. 1) seem to show that it had green ones.  I made the decision to paint them cream more or less on the hoof, as I thought there was enough green paint on the building already!  Especially with the solid balcony rails at the top of the stairs.  It isn't an exact copy of that box, after all.

 

I usually use Humbrol no. 76 for the green colour on buildings which I think is quite close for new paint, but this time I thought I'd try and depict something a bit older so I've mixed the green 50:50 with Humbrol 28 (the palest grey I have); I'm not sure it's really achieved the result I was after!

 

Without wanting to raise another can of worms, building painting colours can be a minefield. For example in the book "Sixties Spotting Days around the Eastern Region" (Kevin Derrick, Strathwood) there is a picture on p77 dated 1962 of Peterborough's North Box (as per Gilbert's layout) looking quite grubby and painted like mine; i.e. cream including the barge boards, with the framing picked out in the usual ER palish bluish greyish green, which is what I've tried to depict.  On the following page there's a picture of the same box dated April 1965 in which it has clearly been repainted, mainly in white (including the framing) but with a darker green for the doors, staircase and barge boards.

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1 hour ago, 31A said:

 

Thank you, that's very kind.  Interesting that you've had to resort to eBay.  The ones I've got the remains of are labelled 1.5mm (and seem to be that size when measured), but the smallest ones listed currently seem to be 2mm; are they different?  The real letters on GNR signal box nameboards were about 4" I think.

 

Steve, yes they're the 1.5mm size which as you say aren't available any more. As far as I know, the 2mm sets are but they're too big for smokebox numbers.

 

https://slatersplastikard.com/plastikard/alphabets.php

 

I suspect that the 1.5mm moulds wore out as some of my sets almost have more flash than moulding.

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2 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Steve, yes they're the 1.5mm size which as you say aren't available any more. As far as I know, the 2mm sets are but they're too big for smokebox numbers.

 

https://slatersplastikard.com/plastikard/alphabets.php

 

I suspect that the 1.5mm moulds wore out as some of my sets almost have more flash than moulding.

 

Thanks for confirming; that's a pity, the 1.5mm size was just about right, although in reality even they're slightly on the large size - I've checked and the real signal box nameboards had 4".

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1 hour ago, Calidore said:

Always a pleasure to see Finsbury Square back on the front page @31A. Lovely work on the signal box; it'll look right at home on the layout I'm sure :imsohappy:

 

Adam

 

Thank you Adam, very kind of you to say so!  Hopefully I'll have a few more pics to put up before long ....

 

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That really is a nice job you’ve done on the N7. I have one but haven’t touched it yet so you’re comments will be very handy when I start working on it. 

What did you use ( apart from patience;)) to get the number and BR totem off ? 
Did you do anything about the coal guards over the rear window ? As far as I can tell the half length guards as fitted to Oxford Rails pre - Nationalisation N7’s were fitted to most of the class throughout the nationalisation era and as I can’t find any photographic examples os any N7’s with full length guards as fitted to Oxford Rails model so I am assuming that was the only one so fitted. I would like to get another one but unless I can find one with the half window- length guards I will have to get an LNER model and repaint it to British Railways era. I don’t know why Oxford Rail changed it from their pre-nationalisation models.

It looks like you have shortened the front coupling as wellHow did you do that ? 
Oxford Rail are to be congratulated on such a smooth running loco that really looks the part but it shame some small details let it down. The dome looks wrong to me.

Edited by jazzer
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1 hour ago, jazzer said:

That really is a nice job you’ve done on the N7. I have one but haven’t touched it yet so you’re comments will be very handy when I start working on it. 

What did you use ( apart from patience;)) to get the number and BR totem off ? 
Did you do anything about the coal guards over the rear window ? As far as I can tell the half length guards as fitted to Oxford Rails pre - Nationalisation N7’s were fitted to most of the class throughout the nationalisation era and as I can’t find any photographic examples os any N7’s with full length guards as fitted to Oxford Rails model so I am assuming that was the only one so fitted. I would like to get another one but unless I can find one with the half window- length guards I will have to get an LNER model and repaint it to British Railways era. I don’t know why Oxford Rail changed it from their pre-nationalisation models.

It looks like you have shortened the front coupling as wellHow did you do that ? 
Oxford Rail are to be congratulated on such a smooth running loco that really looks the part but it shame some small details let it down. The dome looks wrong to me.

 

Thanks Jazzer, glad you like it!

 

I used T Cut on a cotton bud and scraping with a cocktail stick pointed end to get the insignia off.  I thought they weren't going to shift so on one side I started scraping with craft knife with a curved blade, but I wouldn't recommend that as it scratched the surface (although the scratches are mainly covered by the new numbers).  On the second side I just persevered with the T Cut while watching a film on telly, and got there in the end!

 

Mine has full height coal guards on the rear windows, I must admit I don't know which ones had which sort or when?  I thought I'd thought of all the variations!

 

I removed the superfluous condensing gear operating rod on the fireman's (left hand) side, and also the surplus reversing rod on this side as it has two!

 

To shorten the front coupling, I found a 10 BA bolt would screw into the front body fixing screw hole, so I used that to attach a short Bachmann screw fitting coupling (36-025).  I put a piece of brass tube above it to set the right height.  At the back, I shortened the NEM pocket to reduce the length of the coupling.  Here's a couple of pictures showing what I did:

 

IMG_3060.jpg.8162505d3f621ec15cfa9228b74affc2.jpg

 

IMG_3061.jpg.cdc84b455c73b6ddb0186d1be0491235.jpg

 

I agree, despite what I've said above I think it's a lovely model.  The reason for re-numbering was that I got impatient waiting for another BR version to come out, so I bought another 69612!

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, 31A said:

I used T Cut on a cotton bud and scraping with a cocktail stick pointed end to get the insignia off.

I don't bother with cotton buds. I find that for small areas they get in the way and I can't control where the T Cut is going. I just use the cocktail stick but with one end sliced off at an angle and the tip of the resulting chisel shape squared off. The square end gives a nice gentle scraping action.

Edited by St Enodoc
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9 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I don't bother with cotton buds. I find that for small areas they get in the way and I can't control where the T Cut is going. I just use the cocktail stick but with one end sliced off at an angle and the tip of the resulting chisel shape squared off. The square end gives a nice gentle scraping action.

 

That's sensible; the cotton buds also tend to deposit fluff on handrails etc. So do you just dip the cocktail sticks into the T Cut, then?

 

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6 minutes ago, 31A said:

 

That's sensible; the cotton buds also tend to deposit fluff on handrails etc. So do you just dip the cocktail sticks into the T Cut, then?

 

Yes, just pick up a drop on the end of the cocktail stick and rub away (ooer missus).

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18 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Yes, just pick up a drop on the end of the cocktail stick and rub away (ooer missus).

I find the end of a thin coffee stirrer works well. More pressure than a cotton bud, but less aggressive than a cocktail stick.

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1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said:

I find the end of a thin coffee stirrer works well. More pressure than a cotton bud, but less aggressive than a cocktail stick.

I'll try that next time Andy - thanks.

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Just now, jwealleans said:

Was just admiring this on FB, Steve.   Nice job.

 

 

Thank you Jonathan.  It was a nice job to do, as well!

 

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