Train spotting at Finsbury Square

[31A]

Re. tools, like many others it seems I also still use tools that I seem to have had all my life, including quite a few passed down from my father.  In contrast, I often find myself buying new tools that I think will be really useful but then find I never use them at all!  I bought a toolmaker's clamp thinking it might be handy for holding small etched parts whilst cleaning them up and bending folds along etched lines; I didn't realise that to use it in that way one would need three hands, as they require so much force to tighten up.  I bought a small micrometer (mainly because I was bored with guessing the sizes of small drills) but again found I couldn't use it, and went back to drilling test holes in bits of plastikard.

[lezz01]

Hi Steve. I'm struggling to figure out why you can't use a micrometer mate. I suspect you are trying to measure the drill in the wrong place. You measure a drill at the shank not the business end. Anywhere below the twist is the shank. You tighten up the micrometer so that it just grips the drill and then back it off slightly so you can rotate the drill freely between the jaws and read the nearest number to the fixed line scribed on the body of the micrometer or if it's one with a digital display it tells you what the measurement is in numbers. Personally I would suggest you go with a Vernier calliper rather than a micrometer. It is much more versatile, although less accurate, than a micrometer. A basic one is around a tenner and will be good enough for anything you might need to measure within the hobby. They measure length, inside and outside diameter, typically between O-6" or 0-12" in thousandths or 0-150 or 0-300mm in 0.01mms You can get them with either a dial or digital display. Some of the digital micrometers and verniers can measure both metric and imperial at the press of a button. One word of caution do not buy a plastic micrometer or vernier caliper they are not accurate at all. 

If you have tools you don't know how to use properly then feel free to PM me, that offer is open to everyone. There are very few tools that I don't know how to use, as stated in a previous post I am a qualified engineer, a press tool and mold maker to be precise, although I no longer work in the industry I have many years of experience. I will help anyone who asks, either privately or openly, in the correct use of tools. Knowledge unshared is knowledge lost after all.    

Regards Lez.         

[31A]

4 hours ago, lezz01 said:

Hi Steve. I'm struggling to figure out why you can't use a micrometer mate. I suspect you are trying to measure the drill in the wrong place. You measure a drill at the shank not the business end. Anywhere below the twist is the shank. You tighten up the micrometer so that it just grips the drill and then back it off slightly so you can rotate the drill freely between the jaws and read the nearest number to the fixed line scribed on the body of the micrometer or if it's one with a digital display it tells you what the measurement is in numbers. Personally I would suggest you go with a Vernier calliper rather than a micrometer. It is much more versatile, although less accurate, than a micrometer. A basic one is around a tenner and will be good enough for anything you might need to measure within the hobby. They measure length, inside and outside diameter, typically between O-6" or 0-12" in thousandths or 0-150 or 0-300mm in 0.01mms You can get them with either a dial or digital display. Some of the digital micrometers and verniers can measure both metric and imperial at the press of a button. One word of caution do not buy a plastic micrometer or vernier caliper they are not accurate at all. 

If you have tools you don't know how to use properly then feel free to PM me, that offer is open to everyone. There are very few tools that I don't know how to use, as stated in a previous post I am a qualified engineer, a press tool and mold maker to be precise, although I no longer work in the industry I have many years of experience. I will help anyone who asks, either privately or openly, in the correct use of tools. Knowledge unshared is knowledge lost after all.    

Regards Lez.         

 

Hi Les, thank you for the offer.  Here's the micrometer that I bought, with a 2mm drill in its jaws, but where does it tell me that?  There seems to be a line against a number between 40 and 45 on the barrel!

 

I did buy an electronic one a little while ago but the on/off switch was such rubbish that it was virtually impossible to put it back in its case without switching it on by mistake, so the batteries only lasted a few days - it also went onto the pile of tools that I don't use!

 

[31A]

Another day of not much going on today, seems to be the pattern of late, but I've been fiddling about with small details.  I don't want to over populate the place, but thought thought it time to add a few figures.  These two are from Airfix, but not the soapy plastic kind; I painted them years ago but they've never had a purpose before.  Now they're outside the signing on point.

 

 

These two have been around for a while, but up to now have just been standing on their own two feet; you might have noticed their position has varied between the different photos.  Now they're firmly stuck down outside the office.  I've never figured out why the wooden lobby is 'on the wonk' - I thought I was being careful when I built it!

 

[TrevorP1]

2 hours ago, 31A said:

 

Hi Les, thank you for the offer.  Here's the micrometer that I bought, with a 2mm drill in its jaws, but where does it tell me that?  There seems to be a line against a number between 40 and 45 on the barrel!

 

I did buy an electronic one a little while ago but the on/off switch was such rubbish that it was virtually impossible to put it back in its case without switching it on by mistake, so the batteries only lasted a few days - it also went onto the pile of tools that I don't use!

 

If that is a 2mm drill, the mic seems to out of adjustment because at the moment it is it is reading 1.92mm. 
 

Check this by closing the mic up with nothing in the ‘jaws’. The zero on the thimble should then line up with the line on the fixed part of the mic. 
 

If it does not line up, there should be a small C spanner in the mic box. Using this and the tiny dimple on the fixed scale very carefully move the fixed scale - this should be pretty tight. This may take a little time to get right but be patient and take care.

 

I think lez is right about the vernier but I’d beware of buying anything too cheap. Mine is a donkeys year old Mitutoyo and I must admit I abuse it these days, even using as a tool to adjust back to backs. Even so it takes all the abuse. 

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, TrevorP1 said:

Mine is a donkeys year old Mitutoyo

Mine too. I inherited it from an uncle who was himself a toolmaker. I also got a number of vee blocks that I don't use for their original purpose but which are great for holding down points while the glue sets.

[lezz01]

Hi Steve.

The vertical lines above the horizontal line mark one millimeter each the lines below the horizontal line mark 0.5 mm and are also 1 mm apart. Each line on the barrel is 0.01mm. One complete turn is 0.5mm. So that is showing 1.5mm in vertical lines and 0.42mm on the barrel added together equals 1.92 mm which is about what I'd expect for a 2mm drill. It is just a tad low, it should be about 1.95mm to cut a 2mm hole. Use the C spanner to adjust it as Trevor said. A drill is smaller than the hole it cuts. If a 2mm drill was 2mm in diameter it would cut a hole 2.05mm-2.10mm depending on what material it was cutting. Drills don't cut a hole with very much accuracy, the nature of the beast is such that it is literally tearing a hole through the material. To cut a really accurate hole you would drill it smaller than you want it and then open it out to the size needed with a reamer. One of the hardest metals to drill is brass as it doesn't cut cleanly at all it constantly tries to grab the drill and chips, it is also very hard to turn, you need a specially shaped cutting tool, and it's even harder to tap as it binds and can break the tap.

Regards Lez.       

[31A]

18 hours ago, TrevorP1 said:

If that is a 2mm drill, the mic seems to out of adjustment because at the moment it is it is reading 1.92mm. 
 

Check this by closing the mic up with nothing in the ‘jaws’. The zero on the thimble should then line up with the line on the fixed part of the mic. 
 

If it does not line up, there should be a small C spanner in the mic box. Using this and the tiny dimple on the fixed scale very carefully move the fixed scale - this should be pretty tight. This may take a little time to get right but be patient and take care.

 

I think lez is right about the vernier but I’d beware of buying anything too cheap. Mine is a donkeys year old Mitutoyo and I must admit I abuse it these days, even using as a tool to adjust back to backs. Even so it takes all the abuse. 

 

13 hours ago, lezz01 said:

Hi Steve.

The vertical lines above the horizontal line mark one millimeter each the lines below the horizontal line mark 0.5 mm and are also 1 mm apart. Each line on the barrel is 0.01mm. One complete turn is 0.5mm. So that is showing 1.5mm in vertical lines and 0.42mm on the barrel added together equals 1.92 mm which is about what I'd expect for a 2mm drill. It is just a tad low, it should be about 1.95mm to cut a 2mm hole. Use the C spanner to adjust it as Trevor said. A drill is smaller than the hole it cuts. If a 2mm drill was 2mm in diameter it would cut a hole 2.05mm-2.10mm depending on what material it was cutting. Drills don't cut a hole with very much accuracy, the nature of the beast is such that it is literally tearing a hole through the material. To cut a really accurate hole you would drill it smaller than you want it and then open it out to the size needed with a reamer. One of the hardest metals to drill is brass as it doesn't cut cleanly at all it constantly tries to grab the drill and chips, it is also very hard to turn, you need a specially shaped cutting tool, and it's even harder to tap as it binds and can break the tap.

Regards Lez.       

 

Thanks both for the information regarding micrometers, which is very useful and certainly clarifies how you read one.  When the jaws are closed up (empty) it reads 0.46 on the barrel.  There wasn't a spanner with it and I can't see where one could be used to adjust it, but on the box it does say "Adjust the screw in case of error" and there is a screw in the end of the barrel.  However turning this doesn't seem to make any difference, except to release the ratchet mechanism if you unscrew it too far!

 

Here are some more pictures of it.  It is probably a "cheap & nasty" thing; I got it from a well known supplier at a model railway show not long ago.  There's nothing on the box to say who made it but from the writing on the box it's probably safe to say it wasn't made in this country!

 

 

 

 

 

[lezz01]

Hi steve.

Close up the micrometer and undo the screw. Then turn the barrel the way you did to close it up until the 0 is in line with the horizontal line and re-tighten the screw. Open the micrometer a bit then close it again and check the lines are still lined up if not repeat the above operation. You may have to repeat the operation a few times but the error should reduce each time. If it doesn't then the best thing to do is throw it away and buy a better one or as I said buy a vernier instead.

Regards Lez.  

[31A]

57 minutes ago, lezz01 said:

Hi steve.

Close up the micrometer and undo the screw. Then turn the barrel the way you did to close it up until the 0 is in line with the horizontal line and re-tighten the screw. Open the micrometer a bit then close it again and check the lines are still lined up if not repeat the above operation. You may have to repeat the operation a few times but the error should reduce each time. If it doesn't then the best thing to do is throw it away and buy a better one or as I said buy a vernier instead.

Regards Lez.  

 

Thanks for getting back to me Lez, a bit late for that this evening but I'll have a go at what you suggest in the morning.  I don't think it was very expensive!

 

[31A]

On 05/10/2020 at 22:12, 31A said:

 

Thanks for getting back to me Lez, a bit late for that this evening but I'll have a go at what you suggest in the morning.  I don't think it was very expensive!

 

 

Hi Lez, thanks for the advice (and @TrevorP1 as well); I have had a fiddle with this thing now and no matter what I do, I end up with "45" on the barrel against the horizontal line, when it is fully closed.  It may be for the bin!

 

[St Enodoc]

7 hours ago, 31A said:

 

Hi Lez, thanks for the advice (and @TrevorP1 as well); I have had a fiddle with this thing now and no matter what I do, I end up with "45" on the barrel against the horizontal line, when it is fully closed.  It may be for the bin!

 

Don't chuck it out, Steve. If it reads 0.45mm instead of zero consistently every time, then just subtract that amount from any measurement that you take.

[31A]

17 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Don't chuck it out, Steve. If it reads 0.45mm instead of zero consistently every time, then just subtract that amount from any measurement that you take.

 

Thanks, why didn't I think of that!

[31A]

I’ve just finished a trio of Parkside LNER Fish Vans; one as built and two as rebuilt by BR as Insulated Fish vans.

 

I’ve put them together pretty much as intended, just substituted metal buffer heads and draw hooks, and added cast vacuum pipes from the 51L range which conveniently have nice solid pegs to attach them to the van ends.  I kept the moulded buffer bodies, as they’re neat mouldings, but added the rim at the outer ends with a strip of styrene about 0.25mm square.

 

All three vans are illustrated in Part 2 of Geoff Kent’s trilogy and conveniently the numbers for all three were found on the relevant Modelmasters transfer sheets, so I was able to replicate the subtle differences in the placing of the insignia on the real vans.  There are also different arrangements of rain strip on the roofs - straight, curved and non existent.

 

 

 

 

 

[St Enodoc]

4 hours ago, 31A said:

I’ve just finished a trio of Parkside LNER Fish Vans; one as built and two as rebuilt by BR as Insulated Fish vans.

 

I’ve put them together pretty much as intended, just substituted metal buffer heads and draw hooks, and added cast vacuum pipes from the 51L range which conveniently have nice solid pegs to attach them to the van ends.  I kept the moulded buffer bodies, as they’re neat mouldings, but added the rim at the outer ends with a strip of styrene about 0.25mm square.

 

All three vans are illustrated in Part 2 of Geoff Kent’s trilogy and conveniently the numbers for all three were found on the relevant Modelmasters transfer sheets, so I was able to replicate the subtle differences in the placing of the insignia on the real vans.  There are also different arrangements of rain strip on the roofs - straight, curved and non existent.

 

 

 

 

 

Nice work Steve. Please share your secret for getting Modelmaster transfers to stick and for hiding the carrier film.

[danstercivicman]

Splendid work  

[31A]

8 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Nice work Steve. Please share your secret for getting Modelmaster transfers to stick and for hiding the carrier film.

 

Thank you, kind of you to say so!

 

The paint was Halfords aerosols in each case; red oxide primer and matt white.  Then several coats of Klear in the areas where the transfers were to go, until the surface was gloss.  Then put the transfers on in the usual way but then brushed over with some very old Carr's Transfix which I've had for ages (don't know whether it's still available).  Then another coat of Klear to seal the transfers in place.  Then sprayed the sides with Testor's Dullcote; the brown one took two coats of that to hide the gloss patches. The glossy patches on the brown van still hadn't completely disappeared, but did after I'd done the weathering, which was a mixture of Humbrol Matt Black and number 29 (Dark Earth).  After the final Klear but before the matt varnish, I ran my fingernail down the plank lines where the transfer film crossed them.

 

I do find Modelmasters transfers quite variable as to whether they stick well or not.  The transfers for these wagons didn't come from the same sheet.  I think I'd probably had them in stock for about the same length of time, but the black ones stuck really well while the white ones weren't as good and I had to write off one attempt at the Tare Weight figures and use another set; even then I ended up chasing individual characters across the wagon side!  Luckily I couldn't read what the actual tare weight of that wagon really was .....

 

 

[St Enodoc]

4 minutes ago, 31A said:

 

Thank you, kind of you to say so!

 

The paint was Halfords aerosols in each case; red oxide primer and matt white.  Then several coats of Klear in the areas where the transfers were to go, until the surface was gloss.  Then put the transfers on in the usual way but then brushed over with some very old Carr's Transfix which I've had for ages (don't know whether it's still available).  Then another coat of Klear to seal the transfers in place.  Then sprayed the sides with Testor's Dullcote; the brown one took two coats of that to hide the gloss patches. The glossy patches on the brown van still hadn't completely disappeared, but did after I'd done the weathering, which was a mixture of Humbrol Matt Black and number 29 (Dark Earth).  After the final Klear but before the matt varnish, I ran my fingernail down the plank lines where the transfer film crossed them.

 

I do find Modelmasters transfers quite variable as to whether they stick well or not.  The transfers for these wagons didn't come from the same sheet.  I think I'd probably had them in stock for about the same length of time, but the black ones stuck really well while the white ones weren't as good and I had to write off one attempt at the Tare Weight figures and use another set; even then I ended up chasing individual characters across the wagon side!  Luckily I couldn't read what the actual tare weight of that wagon really was .....

 

 

Thanks Steve. As you know from my comments on my own signals, I've been struggling with this. I've got some Klear (Pledge One-Go in these parts) so I'll try that on the next set of arms. I've got some old Transfix too, although more recently I've been trying Micro Set and Micro Sol (very trying...).

[31A]

59 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Thanks Steve. As you know from my comments on my own signals, I've been struggling with this. I've got some Klear (Pledge One-Go in these parts) so I'll try that on the next set of arms. I've got some old Transfix too, although more recently I've been trying Micro Set and Micro Sol (very trying...).

 

I bought some Micro Set as my Transfix is running out, but found it seemed to react with the Klear, turning it milky.  Meths has the same effect when applying Methix transfers so maybe there's some connection?  So I tend to steer clear of it (sorry!) and am carefully guarding my last few drops of the Transfix.  I haven't got any Micro Sol so I don't know how that might work.

[31A]

More rolling stock; I've just finished this ex LNER D282 52' 6" Ganngwayed Brake.  I'd had a partly-completed Comet 51' underframe in  stock for a couple of years, having started it for something else then decided not to use it for that after all.  I hadn't really thought much about the 52' 6" Gangwayed Brakes until I saw this picture of one, looking to be in pretty good nick for the time.

 

 

 Looking them up in Longworth I found they were surprisingly long lived with the last withdrawn in 1972; E70554E which is the number I've put on mine, as it happens.

 

I got ends, sides and roof from Comet and made a start.

 

 

Fox bogies, and most of the other details are from the MJT range.

 

 

I've beefed up the angle iron underframe trussing to make it look more like angle iron, by soldering brass strip (etch scrap) at right angles to the etched frames.

 

I usually use MJT folded paper gangways which have the gangway shield fitted, but as I thought this van would probably spend most of its life in parcels trains I wanted to model the gangways 'open' on this one.  A rummage in the stores revealed some very old Kemilway etches which fitted the bill, including detail of the end door which is omitted from the Comet casting.  There were no instructions but they seemed straightforward except that I ended up with some bits left over.

 

 

 

So this shows the body just abut finished, including how I strengthened the tops of the sides by soldering some brass angle along the top edge, which also gives a good surface to glue the roof to.

 

 

Construction now finished and the van painted - Halford's Burgundy Red, Railmatch Roof Grime for the roof and Methfix transfers.  Had to scrounge around to find enough letter 'E's and ended up using a very old PC Models sheet, but they still worked OK.

 

 

And now with added weathering, ready for traffic.

 

 

 

The whole thing has taken just over a fortnight; must be some kind of record for me (thanks to lockdown!) although I had started the underframe already, and there was no interior to worry about.

 

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, 31A said:

Had to scrounge around to find enough letter 'E's and ended up using a very old PC Models sheet, but they still worked OK.

As you might expect, I use very few Es. Happy to swap for some Ws.

[jwealleans]

10 hours ago, 31A said:

I strengthened the tops of the sides by soldering some brass angle along the top edge, which also gives a good surface to glue the roof to.

 

Always.   Manufacturers of etched sides please note.   Either a fold up strip or (as on the Masterclass vehicles I'm working on) part of the fret with very small recesses so as to fit snugly onto the sides.  Even just a suitably straight, regular, 2-3mm wide part of the fret would do.

 

8 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I use very few Es. Happy to swap for some Ws

 

There's been a bit of a trade in Es through this site for a while.  I had some all the way from Australia.

 

 

 

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, jwealleans said:

There's been a bit of a trade in Es through this site for a while.  I had some all the way from Australia.

They were mine Jonathan - via @Barry O!

[jwealleans]

Thought so.   I'm still using them, though there aren't too many left.

[31A]

1 hour ago, jwealleans said:

 

Always.   Manufacturers of etched sides please note.   Either a fold up strip or (as on the Masterclass vehicles I'm working on) part of the fret with very small recesses so as to fit snugly onto the sides.  Even just a suitably straight, regular, 2-3mm wide part of the fret would do.

 

 

There's been a bit of a trade in Es through this site for a while.  I had some all the way from Australia.

 

 

 

 

I have used milled brass angle from Eileen's in the past but I think in future will look into using the scrap from the edge of the fret.  I presume it would be more difficult to get at right angles to the side, but would be mush cheaper (how long have I lived in Yorkshire!) and in this case would give a bit more room for the toplight glazing.

 

I must see about trading some Es!  Do you have to have a funny handshake or something?