Spitfire's Workbench - On3 Obsession

[richard i]

Shapeways sounds very expensive, you are welcome to send it here and I can see if it will print out on ours, I am in pa so relatively speaking close by.

[KalKat]

K&S do 'bargain packs' of tube offcuts......... they are very, very useful for jobs like this

 

 

 

Emma

[Spitfire2865]

Shapeways sounds very expensive, you are welcome to send it here and I can see if it will print out on ours, I am in pa so relatively speaking close by.

Shapeways isnt too bad when its small bits.

But what kind of printer do you have?

[Spitfire2865]

Well, second go at this due to my Uni's wifi network being more unreliable than political promises.

 

Im not going to type out everything I had again. Im tired, and angry at technology.

[Twright]

Good work, that's shaping up to be a nicely proportioned tank.

[richard i]

Shapeways isnt too bad when its small bits.

But what kind of printer do you have?

Work has 7, can print down to 0.2but happier on 0.6or 0.8 for most jobs. Others run them, so I have to lean on them to give me time, but they are usually quite amenable.

[Spitfire2865]

Well I got myself in an odd mood tonight. I wanted to build a wooden crate.

So I did. Panels glued together, sides nailed in place.

And it looks quite nice sitting in the open.

And a bit more detail work on the wagon. Door pins, brakes, drop door retainers, fall plate, etc.

I do love making door pins work.

[Spitfire2865]

Well Ive started weathering.

And Ive based it on 88181, of which I have photographs of both sides, though the braked side is much more interesting, with that gash through the M and the repainted plank.

(I dont own the photo)

 

First thing was to make some paint masks for the main livery.

This was done in a similar way to the masks for my Lanky van last autumn. Draw out the letter to scale on paper, photocopy it, glue it onto plasticcard, and cut out. A simple drybrushing stencil for letters.

 

Well due to the repainted plank being obviously lighter than the body, and me painting the body this light grey, I didnt have much I could do to lighten that plank besides drybrush white. The lettering gash was done with a file. Then plenty of fibreglass brushing to clean off the letters "newness"

 

Still need to add more weathering, then figure out how to do the chalk marks.

And Ive still procrastinated making the sheet hooks for the curbrail.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Spitfire2865

[Western Star]

And Ive still procrastinated making the sheet hooks for the curbrail.

The three (?) points, along the solebar, for securing ropes are not hooks - these fittings are sheet reeves.  Think of them as two inverted cones with the points together...  then flatten a bit...  then drill through the points of the cones to provide a hole by which to bolt the reeve to the woodwook.  Wrap a tarpaulin sheet (the rope) around the reeve once and pull tight to secure.

 

BTW there are three reeves on each end.

[Spitfire2865]

The three (?) points, along the solebar, for securing ropes are not hooks - these fittings are sheet reeves.  Think of them as two inverted cones with the points together...  then flatten a bit...  then drill through the points of the cones to provide a hole by which to bolt the reeve to the woodwook.  Wrap a tarpaulin sheet (the rope) around the reeve once and pull tight to secure.

 

BTW there are three reeves on each end.

I have a scan of the works drawing and it clearly shows hooks along the bottom of the curbrail.

Now I believe there were reeves on the headstocks but all photos I can find show no reeves on the solebars.

Do you have a reference photo for the placement on D299s?

[Western Star]

I have a scan of the works drawing and it clearly shows hooks along the bottom of the curbrail.

Now I believe there were reeves on the headstocks but all photos I can find show no reeves on the solebars.

Do you have a reference photo for the placement on D299s?

Beg your pardon.  I thought that you are finishing your model using the photo a few posts back.  If that is the case then I cannot see any hooks underneath the curbrail.  The reeves are in the very centre of the solebar...  and underneath / centre of the crown plates.  You might think that the fittings are just big bolts / washers.

 

BTW - there is a label clip to the left of the V-hanger.  If I can fit sprung versions of the clips to my 7mm models...

Edited April 27, 2017 by Western Star

[Compound2632]

Hi Spitfire2865,

 

What copy of Drg 550 do you have? The Midland Railway Study Centre version now available to download appears to be a fairly late version marked as 'for and after the last 242 wagons of Lot 513' (ordered 3 May 1901) and has annotations for Lot 919 of 1917. Whether this represents what was actually built in terms of cleats and rings isn't guaranteed but for what it's worth there are three ben bits of metal screwed into the underside of the siderail, one just to the right of the brake lever ratchet, one just right of the centre-line (and one inferred at the LH end). The end elevation shows a couple of circles on the headstock, each about half-way between the buffer housing and end pillar. These aren't drawn on the plan view but I take them to represent the rings visible on the two good end views in Midland Wagons Vol. 1, Plates 67 and 98. The former shows a sheeted wagon with the ties going to these end rings and roughly to the position of the side rail cleats - so that's what I based my sheeted wagon on - though I confess I didn't model the cleats or rings!

 

Frankly, I can't make out the cleats in the shadow under the siderail in the 'how not to load your wagon' photo.

 

Edit, on a second reading and another look at the photo, I see the fittings to which Western Star refers - and they are there on most D299 wagons in Midland Wagons (and also D305) and are represented on the drawing as dotted circles. I interpret them as looking a bit like kitchen drawer knobs. They are clearly very different to the rings on the headstocks in the photos. However, the photos of pre-D299 wagons (Plates 90 and 91) and one of the end-views (Plate 98) show rings like the headstock rings on the solebar, in the same longitudinal position as the later (?) fittings but about half-way up the solebar.

 

I think this series of phots of how and how not to load wagons dates from the 1920s?

Edited April 27, 2017 by Compound2632

[Spitfire2865]

Beg your pardon. I thought that you are finishing your model using the photo a few posts back. If that is the case then I cannot see any hooks underneath the curbrail. The reeves are in the very centre of the solebar... and underneath / centre of the crown plates. You might think that the fittings are just big bolts / washers.

 

BTW - there is a label clip to the left of the V-hanger. If I can fit sprung versions of the clips to my 7mm models...

It appears there are the reeves in the positions you state, but there are also hooks along the under edge. The hooks can be seen as slight glints of shine in many photos of D299s. Especially on Plate 93 of Esserys Midland Wagon Vol 1.

There are two decent end views of these wagons, one shows reeves, one shows rings.

And are you implying I cant fit label clips? I havent finished detailing, but weathering is easier by my preferred methods without tiny bits hanging off.

 

 

 

Hi Spitfire2865,

What copy of Drg 550 do you have? The Midland Railway Study Centre version now available to download appears to be a fairly late version marked as 'for and after the last 242 wagons of Lot 513' (ordered 3 May 1901) and has annotations for Lot 919 of 1917. Whether this represents what was actually built in terms of cleats and rings isn't guaranteed but for what it's worth there are three ben bits of metal screwed into the underside of the siderail, one just to the right of the brake lever ratchet, one just right of the centre-line (and one inferred at the LH end). The end elevation shows a couple of circles on the headstock, each about half-way between the buffer housing and end pillar. These aren't drawn on the plan view but I take them to represent the rings visible on the two good end views in Midland Wagons Vol. 1, Plates 67 and 98. The former shows a sheeted wagon with the ties going to these end rings and roughly to the position of the side rail cleats - so that's what I based my sheeted wagon on - though I confess I didn't model the cleats or rings!

 

Frankly, I can't make out the cleats in the shadow under the siderail in the 'how not to load your wagon' photo.

 

Edit, on a second reading and another look at the photo, I see the fittings to which Western Star refers - and they are there on most D299 wagons in Midland Wagons (and also D305) and are represented on the drawing as dotted circles. I interpret them as looking a bit like kitchen drawer knobs. They are clearly very different to the rings on the headstocks in the photos. However, the photos of pre-D299 wagons (Plates 90 and 91) and one of the end-views (Plate 98) show rings like the headstock rings on the solebar, in the same longitudinal position as the later (?) fittings but about half-way up the solebar.

 

I think this series of photos of how and how not to load wagons dates from the 1920s?

The drawing I have is marked Lot 178, which while showing the strapping detail in the side panels, has the general dimensions of D299 aside from interior length, which I have noted. Although 1/4" makes little difference regardless of scale. Edited April 27, 2017 by Spitfire2865

[Spitfire2865]

Well its been sitting on my desk for the past week while I dealt with the last schooling of my life. Soon Ill be a graduate with a degree in Engineering.

 

But on to trains.

Got a few more details made up.

Label clips, reeves, and hooks all put in place. Still need to make 4 more reeves for the headstocks but I havent had the time.

 

The reeves were made from a disk of brass. Then a couple scrap etch donuts on a brass nail, and I have a reeve which I can tie down a rope to.

 

Now to just make tarpaulins. One for LNW and one for Midland.

[Compound2632]

I think this series of phots of how and how not to load wagons dates from the 1920s?

 

I found these photos on the NRM website where they're dated 1903.

[Spitfire2865]

I found these photos on the NRM website where they're dated 1903.

I wish I could remember where I found the photos. I tend to just save pictures I find online to my ipad if theyre useful for reference without marking where theyre from for future reference.

[Spitfire2865]

Well I am now a university graduate with a Bachelors in Mechanical Engineering Technology.

Yay me.

But the first full day I had back at home saw me pop into a local model shop in hopes of picking up something I had seen 2 months ago and regret not picking up.

I am now the proud owner of a scratchbuilt American flatcar in the odd 2 inch gauge, or 1:28.25 by my knowledge.

All castings appear to be some sort of whitemetal and Im assuming all custom.

Of everything there, all Im missing is two truss rod posts, a stake pocket, a brake wheel, and a coupler cutbar. Everything else missing appears to have never been fitted.

 

And here it is compared to a 1:22.5 wagon. Because why not.

 

I hope to try to recast all pieces in a stronger metal and make another with all new parts to make it completely working, brakes and all, because why not.

[Spitfire2865]

Well, yesterday I broke out the soldering iron to see about remaking a brake wheel for the flatcar.

Made a jig from wood to help align it all and soldered it all up. Its not perfect, and nowhere near the same level of detail as the original (judging by the remains of the spokes), but I think it works.

 

 

And I had a go at counting how many 4mm wagons I had which fit into my time period.

Its a good collection seeing as nothing is RTR.

Although the ratio of LMS to not is a little 'xenophobic'. Ill have to amend that at some point.

Anyone know of some good kits of foreign stock which fit into early grouping?

[richard i]

Mousa models do great kits, large choice too.

Richard

[Mark Forrest]

Also worthwhile taking a look at David Geen's range of kits:

http://www.davidgeen.co.uk/catalogue.html

 

May also be a few that interest you in the 51L range from Wizard Models

[Compound2632]

Well, yesterday I broke out the soldering iron to see about remaking a brake wheel for the flatcar.

Made a jig from wood to help align it all and soldered it all up. Its not perfect, and nowhere near the same level of detail as the original (judging by the remains of the spokes), but I think it works.

IMG_2401.JPG

 

 

And I had a go at counting how many 4mm wagons I had which fit into my time period.

IMG_2400.JPG

Its a good collection seeing as nothing is RTR.

Although the ratio of LMS to not is a little 'xenophobic'. Ill have to amend that at some point.

Anyone know of some good kits of foreign stock which fit into early grouping?

 

It's a good-looking collection - with a variety of brake vans. Also, 'early grouping' is very much 'late pre-grouping' - so good to see a good number of vehicles that haven't yet been through the paint shop. As I recall, the layout is a small goods yard, so the relatively low proportion of private owner coal wagons doesn't signify. It would be good to have a beauty parade - for instance, I'm curious as to the van middle back, behind the ex-LNWR D88(?) - it seems to have vertical wooden framing and possibly a roof hatch?

[Spitfire2865]

Mousa models do great kits, large choice too.

Richard

Ive been waiting for several of his kits to come out of development.

Also worthwhile taking a look at David Geen's range of kits:

http://www.davidgeen.co.uk/catalogue.html

May also be a few that interest you in the 51L range from Wizard Models

Ive built a couple Geen kits and was looking to buy more several months ago before some other expenses pushed back train funds. Shame as his prices almost rival some plastic 0 scale kits. Though what I remember, they were good kits.

Ive tried one of Wizards kits, the Midland Longlow, but I remember many of the kits were special stock and not normally suitable for a goods warehouse. Though I might have a look again.

It's a good-looking collection - with a variety of brake vans. Also, 'early grouping' is very much 'late pre-grouping' - so good to see a good number of vehicles that haven't yet been through the paint shop. As I recall, the layout is a small goods yard, so the relatively low proportion of private owner coal wagons doesn't signify. It would be good to have a beauty parade - for instance, I'm curious as to the van middle back, behind the ex-LNWR D88(?) - it seems to have vertical wooden framing and possibly a roof hatch?

Thats actually a scratchbuilt Furness Ry van on Cambrian frames and Geen W irons. I even gave it safety chains. The roof was my sadly only usage of roof boards coated in tissue. I would like to reuse that technique if I get around to scratchbuilding another van. Post 154 on page 7 has my build of it. Edited May 13, 2017 by Spitfire2865

[Compound2632]

Thats actually a scratchbuilt Furness Ry van on Cambrian frames and Geen W irons. I even gave it safety chains. The roof was my sadly only usage of roof boards coated in tissue. I would like to reuse that technique if I get around to scratchbuilding another van. Post 154 on page 7 has my build of it.

Thanks - I need to go back and read through from the beginning!

[Spitfire2865]

Onto my second Gauge 3 kit which is one of Slater's Midland vans. I thought it would be a quick build but thats proven itself false.

First thing I did was give the resin casting a nice scrubbing with soap and water. Then a coat of the last of my can of Tamiya primer. When it came to painting it didnt seem to want to stick at all. After two coats and still not very good coverage, I managed to scrape off the primer with light finger pressure...something went wrong.

I had a go at removing the paint by hand with some thinners, then a scouring pad, and finally just took a razer to it to scratch off the paint. Another, much heavier cleaning and the paint seems to want to stick!

Now another hurdle. The kit as it comes can represent a D362 or 363 van and comes with Midland square number plates. However, it also is molded with the later door rollers rather than cast sliders. That just wont do for my era. So some hacking at the molding today removed the rollers and using plastic from the kit, I made up some sliders.

Then I realized the door runners needed to be shortened and holes repositioned.

 

After all that, Im finally back on track to a relatively simple kitbuild.

Scratchbuilding a wagon is sometimes simpler than kitbuilding...

[richard i]

The paint issue is down to resin casting having a film on it from the casting process. Washing takes it off. So by removing the paint you solved the real problem.