PO wagons

[14xx]

Hello all,

 

I'm just enquiring (with especial regard to Western & Southern regions) about how late it was that recognisable wooden PO wagons / milk tankers actually ran? I appreciate that weathering etc would alter appearance / recognition considerably, but for example would some have been in recognisable condition (name of owner visible etc)as late as the appearance of the early BR emblem on locos?

 

Or are they are likely to have been scrapped / repainted by then?

 

Apologies for the rather basic question - I'm new to all this!

 

Many thanks & best wishes,

 

Pete.

[37079]

Hi Pete,

 

Regarding private owner open coal wagons, the majority were pooled during the second world war (with the exception of some specialist use types which continued to be pivately owned and liveried) so none gained PO livery after this but few would have been repainted until well into the British Railways era beyond the addition of a Pxxxxx number (normally but not always on a black patch). There is plenty of evidence to show pre-nationalisation Private Owner (and LMS/LNER/etc) liveries on wagon stock well into the 1950s ie. after the introduction of the BR crest you mention.

 

A good source of pictures is 'The 4mm Coal Wagon' published by Wild Swan.

 

Milk tankers were different in that the railway companies always owned the underframes and the tanks were owned by the dairies. A number of dairies were affected by mergers and takeovers so some of the colourful liveries available are only suitable for an earlier era - most tanks were silver after nationalisation although other colours were used and some obsolete schemes survived into the BR era.

 

Do you have any particular PO liveries in mind as some are more likely to have been around than others? My own knowledge of the subject is pretty limited but there are plenty of very knowledgable sorts on here that would likely be able to answer your questions.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Mike

[edward66]

From my recollections whilst there were plenty of ex-PO wagons running in the fifties with P series numbers very few had PO liveries still in readable condition. Many had a lot of planks replaced, others had very faded or peeled remnants of PO livery and some of course were painted grey by BR. I really can't remember ever seeing one with its PO livery in reasonable condition.

 

Edward

[craigwelsh]

If you get a chance to look at a copy of "The 4mm Coal Wagon" as Mike said this book is filled with pictures of these into the early 60s by which time they were either unpainted or grey. There are quite a few pictures in 1952 when the liveries were still almost complete but now had P numbers, bottom door markings and the white stripe. Mid to late 50s shot shows a Denaby wagon and a couple of others with their white letters poking through.

The other useful book is the first "4mm wagon" volume by Geoff Kent which gives some overall views at different stages showing how the liveries faded. so i'd really suggest its just as the late crest came in that the end finally came for nay recognition.

 

 

ICI 5-plank wagons to 1923 RCH spec weren't pooled however and there is a picture by Dave Larkin of one (L3102) in 1962 looking recently repainted. I think Bachmann have done a model of one of these.

 

Make sure you chose your PO livery carefully though, RTR liveries have a nasty habit of being for collieries and other businesses that closed or were bought out around the time of the great war and wouldn't have been on a 1923 wagon or survived post war!

 

Many POs parked up in sidings around Cardiff in the late 50s post-56 but you can't make out anything on them by then. My main period is about 60 by which time it was definately the last dregs of these wagons in between steel examples for BR use. The NCB kept a few though.

[14xx]

Thank you for the replies and advice.

 

 

It looks like I might have bought a Terrier with the wrong livery... should have been Southern rather than early BR. Oh well, back to the drawing board!

[boeing757]

Hi,

First post so no blood please. If you look at the web site for Golden Age Models, in the A4 section there is a photo of I think Dwight D Eisenhower at KK which must have been taken in the 60's which shows a Maltby PO wagon in the background. Ok the wagon is in poor order but the lettering is clearly visible. So at least one made into the sixties. I have this subject earmarked for a 7mm model in the near future. Take a look at Golden Age Models site.

[DVLR Dave]

Further to the last post the Colour Rail catalogue states that the photo was taken in October 1961. My link

[DavidBelcher]

The St. Ivel livery as carried by the 6-wheeled Lima and Wrenn 00 models is bona fide, and a 1970s example in black & white can be seen here;

 

http://www.semgonline.com/vandw/milk_01.html

 

As others have said, plain silver (which didn't weather especially well!) was more common, with a small nameplate denoting the specific company (United Dairies and the Milk Marketing Board were common examples).

 

David

[hmrspaul]

The St. Ivel livery as carried by the 6-wheeled Lima and Wrenn 00 models is bona fide, and a 1970s example in black & white can be seen here;

 

http://www.semgonline.com/vandw/milk_01.html

 

As others have said, plain silver (which didn't weather especially well!) was more common, with a small nameplate denoting the specific company (United Dairies and the Milk Marketing Board were common examples).

 

David

And colour examples here Ex GWR & BR Milk tank wagons – 44 photographs

http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c25350.html

and here

"Milk tank wagons BR, LNER, SR, LMS, MMB" (C#20075) – 30 photographs

http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c20075.html

 

But, of course, they are not wagons but NPCS.

 

Paul

York