Roy L S Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Hi Malcolm I have three now (yes I know!). The chassis of the later two appears identical to the one from the set and in terms of running, all three perform pretty much identically. I haven't checked out haulage yet, but as the later pair also have no traction tyres there is no reason to think they will pull any more or less than the first. Regards Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalcolmAL Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 no reason to think they will pull any more or less than the first. Thanks Roy, that is brill. just what I needed to know >"I have three now (yes I know!)" hehee, I know the feeling, I am in need, I think, of two sets ( busy inland->seaside route NW England model) but was not sure if I should spread my bet to one seside + one other loco and assorted other carriages. Meanwhile, it is a good thing that wife is not a member of that club, so has not seen the S&D pretty wee thing else she would want one as well ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TomE Posted March 19, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 19, 2015 My 4F arrived this morning and as per previous comments it really is a superb little model. Running is silky smooth straight from the box and the finish is excellent. I'd even say it may be fractionally ahead of the 2MT which up until now has been the benchmark for me. The chassis follows the now established format, with the same brass pick up bearings as all recent releases, once again meaning those looking to convert to finescale can simply purchase the replacement wheels and bearings from the 2mm Scale Association. In fact I think the 3F conversion pack should be compatible with the 4F as the etch includes the correct connecting rods. To DCC the model, the tender top simply pulls off without the need to unscrew anything and as per the models in the Seaside Excursion sets, there are no traction tyres. Hurrah! I know I say this every time Farish release a new model, but it really is incredible to think how far N Gauge has come in the last few years and even though we are now seeing a rise in prices, if the quality of models produced continues to match or exceed the 4F, then that rise should be a little more palatable. Perhaps more pleasing is that QC appears to be improving also, with very few reports of issues with the 4F and that is perhaps the most important thing. Tom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulprice Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Chaps Stop it, I'm having major pains in my wallet region, yesterday, I almost dared to open it to see if I had enough cash to buy one............... this led me to ponder a couple of questions 1. what is happening to me, modellers are not supposed to spend money are they (they are supposed to be prudent like me??) 2. Can you still spend "white" fivers?. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hailstone Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Looking at Tom E's photos could anyone say with confidence that they are not looking at an N gauge model but an OO gauge one - this loco like the Duchess has raised the bar yet again for the incredible level of detail now to be found on N gauge stock, there has never been a better time to be an N gauge modeller Regards, Alex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 May I get some advice on slow-speed running please? I ran-in my new 4F for about 1 hour in each direction at medium speed. When finished, it performed very smoothly - no complaints at all. I then inserted a TCS EUN651 chip and tried running it using my NCE controller at speed step 1 - it was quite fast in both directions, not the walking crawl I have with other locos fitted with the same chip. I then modified the default setting to use the speed table default and now at step 1 it doesn't move at all but at step 2 it is the same as using the basic speed settings. Would appreciate some suggestions about how to make it run at walking pace, just like all the other Farish locos with the same chip and default settings do Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Looking at Tom E's photos could anyone say with confidence that they are not looking at an N gauge model but an OO gauge one - this loco like the Duchess has raised the bar yet again for the incredible level of detail now to be found on N gauge stock, there has never been a better time to be an N gauge modeller Regards, Alex Coupling rods probably. Plus, he has removed the couplings... They would make it painfully obvious. Apart from that, you would struggle to spot the difference. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 May I get some advice on slow-speed running please? I ran-in my new 4F for about 1 hour in each direction at medium speed. When finished, it performed very smoothly - no complaints at all. I then inserted a TCS EUN651 chip and tried running it using my NCE controller at speed step 1 - it was quite fast in both directions, not the walking crawl I have with other locos fitted with the same chip. I then modified the default setting to use the speed table default and now at step 1 it doesn't move at all but at step 2 it is the same as using the basic speed settings. Would appreciate some suggestions about how to make it run at walking pace, just like all the other Farish locos with the same chip and default settings do Are your other Farish locos ones with the new(ish) coreless motor? Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TomE Posted March 26, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 26, 2015 Plus, he has removed the couplings... They would make it painfully obvious. Which is why I removed them May I get some advice on slow-speed running please? I ran-in my new 4F for about 1 hour in each direction at medium speed. When finished, it performed very smoothly - no complaints at all. I then inserted a TCS EUN651 chip and tried running it using my NCE controller at speed step 1 - it was quite fast in both directions, not the walking crawl I have with other locos fitted with the same chip. I then modified the default setting to use the speed table default and now at step 1 it doesn't move at all but at step 2 it is the same as using the basic speed settings. Would appreciate some suggestions about how to make it run at walking pace, just like all the other Farish locos with the same chip and default settings do I tried one of the chips you mention above in the Fairburn tank and had similar problems which no amount of CV tweaking via my Powercab would resolve. In the end I reverted back to my chip of choice, the Zimo MX621N, and had no issues. I cannot recommend the Zimo chips highly enough, especially with the new coreless motors. They are slightly more expensive than the TCS chips but worth the extra I feel. Tom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Are your other Farish locos ones with the new(ish) coreless motor? Chris Yes they are...all the new ones run fine at step 1, but the 4F is like a sprinter! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin1985 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Running quality was quite iffy and sporadic, and eventually traced to wheelsets that had been put in upside down ( well the coupling rods were anyway), front & back sets that were (incorrectly) quartered differently to the middle set, and a loco/tender drawbar where the electrical connections weren't working, (so no juice from the loco wheels going to the motor). Once these were as they should be it ran pretty much the same as the Jinty, quite nicely on DC, and very nicely on DCC when a CT76 was 'borrowed' from another loco and tried in it. I've now had two of the Landship Train sets with the Midland livery 4F - the first one ran so poorly that I ended up returning it. The replacement is better, but still runs with a limp, which seems like quartering issue, although not so great as to be immediately visible. I'll probably end up converting it to 2FS using replacement and bearings and wheels, so the quartering will be reset anyway, but its still disappointing for a brand new loco. The LMS livery example I also bought runs very smoothly indeed, so I'm wondering if the Landship batch are generally duds? Has anyone else had a problem? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted August 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 13, 2015 Sorry to hear that Justin. I've also had two of the land ship MR 4Fs and both ran beautifully - they have both now been converted to 2FS. Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Nig H Posted August 14, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 14, 2015 Sorry to hear that Justin. I've also had two of the land ship MR 4Fs and both ran beautifully - they have both now been converted to 2FS. Jerry Hello Jerry, What did you do for the tenders? I assume you used the Jinty kit for the loco. Nig H Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted August 14, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 14, 2015 Hello Jerry, What did you do for the tenders? I assume you used the Jinty kit for the loco. Nig H Hi Nigel, The locos do indeed have the Jinty conversion - a very straightforward job. One tender has a traditional inside frame replacement chassis with a loose pivoted fixing at the rear so some of the weight can be transferred to the loco. The other has some direct replacement wheels on pinpoints which Alan Smith did for me. Alan is working on getting the pinpoint tender wheels produced for the Association shop. Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben_m Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I'm thinking about getting the "Landship Train" boxing, and am happy to hear positive reviews of the loco. But as I am experiencing less-than great performance of my first n-gauge locomotive (and first model locomotive of any type!)- a Farish (China made) J94 bought second hand; I want a really good runner. I have 1st radius curves and peco settrack points- are the new 4Fs happy on these? I also here bad things about bearing pickups (e.g. on Dapol panniers), and there was a thread I read somewhere that said new Farish models may also have them. Is the 4F using wheel bearing pickups? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin1985 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 The J94, like the original Panniers and inside framed version of the 08 diesel shunter used an old fashioned design of chassis with integral motor, and while some were luckily quite good runners, it was hardly a refined, sweet running design. So don't judge modern Farish designs by that! The modern Farish steam locos with inside bearing pickups on the drivers, and outside cup bearing pickups on the tenders, are invariably great running locos by design. However, as I said a few posts ago, I have been unlucky with the Landship Train pack, now having had two sets with locos that "limp" because of quartering problems (i.e. the fixing pins for the connecting rods between the driving wheels appear not to be lined up properly, causing the mechanism to slightly bind on each revolution). But I also have another new 4F, the LMS livery one, which runs perfectly, and others have been happy with their Landship Train locos, so I think I've just had back luck. So, excellent mechanism by design, but ask to see the loco running at low speed in both directions on a test track before you buy, to check for quality control issues, would be my advice! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I'm thinking about getting the "Landship Train" boxing, and am happy to hear positive reviews of the loco. But as I am experiencing less-than great performance of my first n-gauge locomotive (and first model locomotive of any type!)- a Farish (China made) J94 bought second hand; I want a really good runner. I have 1st radius curves and peco settrack points- are the new 4Fs happy on these? I also here bad things about bearing pickups (e.g. on Dapol panniers), and there was a thread I read somewhere that said new Farish models may also have them. Is the 4F using wheel bearing pickups? I've had issues with some of Farish's new releases, mostly the tender drives, but I would say if you like the look of the 4F buy with confidence. You will get a really good looking loco that runs very well and has a creditable haulage capacity. There are only two caveats as far as I'm concerned. The loco is very free running. If you are using hidden dead sections make them long enough to avoid this free-running loco coasting straight through with the power off..... Like ALL new releases it isn't immine from getting a badly-assembled one. That chance is about 5% by all accounts, but nobody is immune, and duff locos tend to be clustered (this latter is a statistic that applies to ALL manufacturers) - get one you stand a higher chance of getting a second, believe it or not.. Go for it. The only reason I haven't one is it is inappropriate for my layout- rule 1 doesn't apply if I'm running my trains for the paying public. Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben_m Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Thanks Justin and Les; ordered it online, should be here on Wednesday. Fingers crossed that I get a good one! I ordered some figures for the great-looking open cab- I'll post a photo once I've painted and installed the crew. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2TATrains Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 This is brilliant value for money https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rr5xY_wRMY Cheers 2TATrains Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I also here bad things about bearing pickups (e.g. on Dapol panniers), and there was a thread I read somewhere that said new Farish models may also have them. Is the 4F using wheel bearing pickups? 2mm Finescale locos use this method of design and have done for many years. The main weakness is if you get oil into the bearings, as it acts as an insulator. This is something that would become more of an issue over time. A number of 2mm loco builders fit auxiliary pickups inside the frames, not really an option on the RTR locos. The Farish locos can have their wheelsets removed and the bearings cleaned very easily if they get oily. The Dapol ones less so. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyMay Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I have two questions. 1. Can anyone post pictures of the new 4F alongside the old one? (Maybe for comedy value) 2. Can anyone explain what's the issue with the oversized coupling rods? Why are they oversized? Could they be made to-scale? how do finescale kitbuilders deal with the issues? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy L S Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I'm afraid I can't help with point one as I have sold on my old 4F but the old one wasn't such a bad model for the time. What let it down most in my humble opinion was the tender stretched to fit the Stanier underframe. I did stand them side by side, the old loco compared fairly well in a general dimension sense but that's about it. The new one when you really start to look is in a totally different league all round. Looking at one of mine as I type this I would say the rods are a little over scale for sure, principle reason I would think is because like the real loco they transfer power to the coupled wheels (no gear train) but they aren't that obtrusive in real life (as opposed to photos) and do not detract in my humble opinion on the quality of the model. The cab detail is truly something else for an N model and to have a representation of the inside motion visible between the frames begs the question how much better can things really get. The coreless motor makes the loco's performance peerless and the only slight negative is that it is comparatively light meaning a train of five Staniers or equivalent in wagons is a typical maximum comfortable load. The tenders, especially the fowler one is a work of art in its own right.. Regards Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 I have two questions. 1. Can anyone post pictures of the new 4F alongside the old one? (Maybe for comedy value) 2. Can anyone explain what's the issue with the oversized coupling rods? Why are they oversized? Could they be made to-scale? how do finescale kitbuilders deal with the issues? As a finescale kit designed I can only speak for myself. I etch them to near true-scale and don't generally have an issue with them bending out of shape. But they are delicate and probably would not fit very well with being assembled by far-eastern factory workers rather than careful modellers. The etched ones are multi layer and so thicker than the very flat things Farish and Dapol supply. The RTR crankpins are also made massively overscale which kind of dictates that the rods need to be as well because the require holes are so large. You can always take them off and file them down a bit. I've seen it done to good effect on the 03/04 shunters Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Nig H Posted October 7, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 7, 2015 As a finescale kit designed I can only speak for myself. I etch them to near true-scale and don't generally have an issue with them bending out of shape. But they are delicate and probably would not fit very well with being assembled by far-eastern factory workers rather than careful modellers. The etched ones are multi layer and so thicker than the very flat things Farish and Dapol supply. The RTR crankpins are also made massively overscale which kind of dictates that the rods need to be as well because the require holes are so large. You can always take them off and file them down a bit. I've seen it done to good effect on the 03/04 shunters Chris I'm also a finescale kit designer and I second what Chris has said. Nig H Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold traction Posted October 7, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 7, 2015 I have to say it is a fantastic little loco and the Seaside Excursion set really is fantastic value for money. Andy from Sawyer Models fitted the Bachmann 6pin chip and tested it forwards/backwards before sending me the train set. It's turned out into a nice little layout! Cheers Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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