Metropolitan Bo-Bo EP sample

[johnb]

Dreadnought coaches were a Metropolitan Railway design and used only on the Met between London and Aylesbury. So without any perceived demand for a  small batch type with a very limited area of use, it is unlikely that a manufacturer would have risked producing any. Kits are available from Radley Models (no connection).

 

John

[Jenny Emily]

Belatedly I've uploaded the opening and revue video I did for 'John Milton' 9 in Metropolitan livery. A very fine model this is.

 

[Guest spet0114]

... opening and revue video...

 

Song and dance numbers? This is somewhat of a new direction....

[Jenny Emily]

Song and dance numbers? This is somewhat of a new direction....

I did make a song and dance over wanting one...

[2750Papyrus]

As reported elsewhere, my earliest electric trains were by Trix.  (My Dad was always into electrical novelty and i think the idea of running two trains on the same track made up for the lack of realism).  There used to be a model shop of sorts on York Road, which had the Trix model of a Metropolitan electric loco in the window.  Whenever we'd been into London (eg the MRC Central Hall exhibition) he used to stop the car and look longingly at it in the window but could never afford to buy it.

 

Which is my only justification for buying the Heljan model (as my railway is vaguely ECML} and a real beauty it is too.  Dad would have loved it.

 

Maybe...... if the electrification from Finsbury Park to Highgate had been completed, LT would have been transferred some in for freight working?

[Ian Hargrave]

Agree with all of the above.This is an exquisite model,particularly in the Metropolitan livery.Not for the purist but for the nearest I can get to a semblance of reality,I intend to put a rake of Gresley teak suburban stock behind it as another RMWebber has done on this thread.

Then,as it ran on parallel GC tracks,in the opposite direction,as it were,a Bachmann Director D11( Butler Henderson) hauling a rake of teak corridor stock.Pure fantasy I know but for some at any rate,the hobby is just that.

Tin hat.....incoming.....!

[PhilJ W]

Agree with all of the above.This is an exquisite model,particularly in the Metropolitan livery.Not for the purist but for the nearest I can get to a semblance of reality,I intend to put a rake of Gresley teak suburban stock behind it as another RMWebber has done on this thread.

Then,as it ran on parallel GC tracks,in the opposite direction,as it were,a Bachmann Director D11( Butler Henderson) hauling a rake of teak corridor stock.Pure fantasy I know but for some at any rate,the hobby is just that.

Tin hat.....incoming.....!

Although the Metropolitan had aspirations to be a 'main line' company after 1933 when London Transport took over it became a passenger only company, indeed LT had transfered many of the Metropolitan steam locomotives to the LNER just leaving a few for engineering trains and none of those used for freight remained. However during the war years they were used for freight, mostly military equipment built/repaired/modified in LT workshops, indeed there is a photograph of one loco hauling a train of warwells loaded with tanks. The problem is that they generally only hauled the 'Dreadnought' stock which was quite distinctive and there is no indication that a RTR model(s) of that stock are going to be produced. The Dreadnought stock pre-dated the locomotives by about 15 years and could be seen not only behind Metrpolitan/LT locomotives but also behind LNER(GC) locomotives and in their last years hauled by BR Midland Region locomotives. The Dreadnought stock came top of the wishlist poll this year so hopefully a manufacturer will consider producing a RTR model but it might require sponsorship from the LT museum to make it viable.

Edited December 4, 2015 by PhilJ W

[Horsetan]

Belatedly I've uploaded the opening and revue video I did for 'John Milton' 9 in Metropolitan livery. A very fine model this is.

 

I've got to stop looking at these things. Fortunately, they're all sold out now.....

 

Incidentally, has anyone dared to open up a bogie and photograph the gear arrangement within?

 

EDIT: I have seen several notes on other sites which says that no.12 Sarah Siddons differs from the others because of the installation of GEC electrical / control equipment. What, if any, are the visible differences because of this?

Edited December 31, 2015 by Horsetan

[Jeff Smith]

EDIT: I have seen several notes on other sites which says that no.12 Sarah Siddons differs from the others because of the installation of GEC electrical / control equipment. What, if any, are the visible differences because of this?

Sarah Siddons was fitted with roller bearings. The photo in post #126 shows an additional pipe from somewhere under the buffer beam to the axle box - this may be an oil feed or maybe a temperature sensor. I'm doubtful though that this would be added in the model.... Edited December 31, 2015 by Jeff Smith

[Stevelewis]

I've got to stop looking at these things. Fortunately, they're all sold out now.....

-----------------------------------------------------------

 

Actually  as  of  today  there  are  several  of  the  usual suppliers  showing  stock  of  some  of  the  variants!!

 

There is  a nice  clip  of  the  Loco performing  with  BIG loads  on the  Hornby Mag  Free DVD ( Jan 2016 issue)  actually  the  whole DVD  is rather  good  one of the  best i have seen  recently

[Engineer_London]

"EDIT: I have seen several notes on other sites which says that no.12 Sarah Siddons differs from the others because of the installation of GEC electrical / control equipment. What, if any, are the visible differences because of this?"

 

Intrigued by this.  In between work and life, I'm working out slowly a list of the detail variants and visible differences in the M-V Bo-Bo fleet.  Really important to me to use evidence, so any chance of links to the particular notes on other sites, please?

 

Thanks.

[Horsetan]

Sarah Siddons was fitted with roller bearings.....

Presumably this was done at some stage in her preservation career. I have seen a photo of her at some mid-1980s open day where she still has plain bearings.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Horsetan

[ndg910]

I can't tell you when she was fitted with roller bearings but I went with my father behind Sarah to Portsmouth Harbour and again to the

Romney Hythe & Dymchurch in the 1980s and the crew were extremely worried about her bearings and had a drum of oil in the rear cab that they poured over her bearings at every stop. On one trip we set off the hot box detectors near Christs Hospital station and stopped for quite a while.

 

I think her running gear was then refurbished before Steam on the Met in the 90s.

[Horsetan]

..... I'm working out slowly a list of the detail variants and visible differences in the M-V Bo-Bo fleet.  Really important to me to use evidence, so any chance of links to the particular notes on other sites, please?

 

Heljan made reference to the GEC equipment when they announced why Sarah Siddons would only be produced later

 

EDIT: for the purposes of a model, the GEC equipment amounts to six extra parts - but where would they be fitted?

 

I can't tell you when she was fitted with roller bearings but .....I think her running gear was then refurbished before Steam on the Met in the 90s.

 

The saving grace of the roller bearings is that they would not be difficult to portray on a Heljan model, or one built using another source.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Horsetan

[Engineer_London]

Thanks for responding with the detail.  I apologise for the delayed response, down to work and life

 

I think I can infer what is meant, so here is a start on identifying some of the visual differences.  I may have missed a few things, and there’s still a long way to go to construct good evidence, so what follows is my initial best endeavours, and I've called on the advice of 2-3 people who have good knowledge of the subject.

 

Specifically, I believe the mention of “installation of GEC electrical / control equipment” is linked to the 1981/1982 overhaul of Sarah Siddons.  Already, in the late 1960s, the locomotive had been modified for its role in brake block testing.

 

Visible differences and notes on other changes and differences.

On each side, roughly central and suspended from the solebar alongside the brake shaft bracket, there was a new AEI/GEC shed receptacle.  This is a light grey object, with top-hinged flap lid showing to the outside, with one red and one blue spot on it.  It is the place where a shore supply/’trolley lead can be inserted.

At the same time, the existing four shed receptacles, one at each ‘corner’, suspended from the headstocks, were removed.  These receptacles had been in place on the loco from the 1920s and were smaller, less prominent than the ETH jumper receptacles that were fitted at those same vacant ‘corners’, later, in the early 1990s.  See loco 5 ‘John Hampden’ in the London Transport Museum for examples of the original receptacles.

The remainder of the traction equipment [bTH, installed 1950s] remains broadly unaltered.

Also at this overhaul, electrical equipment, cabling and installation within the locomotive was renewed with capability to run on 750V dc line supply, and internal changes were made to brake control equipment, possibly including some alterations in the air brake piping and hoses at the loco ends..

 

So, in relation to the “1982/3 GEC modification”, key changes to the model could be: Add 2x new shed receptacle, remove 4x ETH jumper receptacle, maybe minor changes to brake piping at ends.  A livery change was made, believed to be the 1930s London Transport style, broadly as applied to loco 19.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Engineer_London

[Dan Hamblin]

There was also the work to reinstate vacuum brakes during 2012 so that it could work with the LU heritage train for the 150th Anniversary runs during 2013 and beyond. Most of the equipment is inside but new pipe runs were added along the solebar, plus of course there is the vacuum brake hose on the bufferbeams.

 

Regards,

 

Dan

[Horsetan]

Loads of close-up photos needed, then!

[Engineer_London]

Very useful information on the 2012 work, thanks.  There was work done in 2008 I believe, as well as the earlier overhauls and modifications mentioned already, and the conversiion for brake-block testing in the late 1960s. 

 

There seem to be at least five distinct phases in the post-service life of Sarah Siddons, with attendant detail and livery differences.  During the operational years 1920 to 1960 there were not only the livery variants but also quite a few detail differences, and the result is quite an interesting fleet of twenty locos.

 

Edited to list the information above for clarity and hoping for any corrections/confirmations on the way:

 

Phases in post-service era:

 

(i) 1961 to late 1960s [when Loco 12 received modifications for brake block testing - some of these are visible]

(ii) late 1960s to 1981 [Loco 12 overhaul, including livery change]

(iii)  1982 to 1991 [approx.] [loco 12 overhaul/modifications, fitting roller bearings and ETH]

(iv)  1991 to late 1990s/early 2000s [possible further overhaul/modification work/livery change - information needed]

(v) to 2008 [overhaul/modifications, elimination of side access features on No, 1 side dating from late 1960s.  Livery changes, new nameplates fitted, ETH receptacles painted black]

(vi)  2008 to 2012 [Vacuum braking equipment installation] ...

Edited January 11, 2016 by Engineer_London

[Dan Hamblin]

It is due a Programme Lift soon, I understand there is further work being contemplated on the auxiliary supply if the loco is to be equipped with the Thales signalling equipment for use on the SSR.

 

Regards,

 

Dan

[Horsetan]

For anyone interested here is a comparison.

The left one is a Harrow/Radley Kit rebuilt from a old kit by myself and is driven by black beetle motor bogies. The middle is the Heljan model. ....

....Interesting to see how similar and yet different models of the same class of loco can be.

Certainly is, in particular the difference in size of the glazing between the Radley and the Heljan. Hmm....I wonder if....

 

 

I was browsing the Radley site yesterday. They have stopped selling the Bo-Bo kit but appear to still have resin bodies, floor, bogies and flush glazing available for £42.....+ £40 for the Tenshodo.

If you don't need the bogies (because, for example, you bought some Heljan ones earlier as spares), that cost reduces to £30.

[Jeff Smith]

Post #248 shows some internal detail - it looks like a central motor driving both bogies so bogies on their own would not give you power......

[Horsetan]

Post #248 shows some internal detail - it looks like a central motor driving both bogies so bogies on their own would not give you power......

 

Yes, and some of us might want to try powering a Radley kit using the Heljan method. 

[Jeff Smith]

Agreed but that may well be just as expensive as a SPUD. 

 

The Bull-Ant ones I bought (post #251) were about £60 but at the time they were the only option I could find with the correct wheelbase - and they were available in P4.

[roythebus]

Regarding the fitting of roller bearings, I'd suggest the additional pipework is actually for the earth to running rail return. My son is fleet engineer for Southern Railway, formerly in charge of the diesel fleet. They had problems on non-SR emu's from other areas with the wheel bearings failing rather quickly. This was due to the high currents being passed through the roller bearings via the wheels and axles on the Southern, where of course traction current returns through the running rails. They fitted small tails to the bearings that rub on the ends of the axles inside the bearings and these go to the bogie frame.

 

Hence my suggestion, maybe the tails on Sarah go to a switch inside that switches the locos from isolated 4th rail return to earth return?

 

The Met locos were originally fitted with ETH jumpers of the LT type, hence the shed jumper boxes in the corners. they were also fitted with vacuum brakes from new. So I suspect Sarah has been re-fitted with vacuum brake equipment! No.5 certainly had it fitted when I learnt the Met locos in 1973.

[Horsetan]

Regarding the fitting of roller bearings, I'd suggest the additional pipework is actually for the earth to running rail return. My son is fleet engineer for Southern Railway, formerly in charge of the diesel fleet. They had problems on non-SR emu's from other areas with the wheel bearings failing rather quickly. This was due to the high currents being passed through the roller bearings via the wheels and axles on the Southern, where of course traction current returns through the running rails. They fitted small tails to the bearings that rub on the ends of the axles inside the bearings and these go to the bogie frame.

 

Hence my suggestion, maybe the tails on Sarah go to a switch inside that switches the locos from isolated 4th rail return to earth return?

 

The Met locos were originally fitted with ETH jumpers of the LT type, hence the shed jumper boxes in the corners. they were also fitted with vacuum brakes from new. So I suspect Sarah has been re-fitted with vacuum brake equipment! No.5 certainly had it fitted when I learnt the Met locos in 1973.

 

I currently have a boatload of spare Heljan sprues for this engine, plus a numbered parts list, so hopefully I'll be able to work out what goes where!