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Metropolitan Bo-Bo EP sample


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Does anyone know how many locos we're painted in the wartime grey?

 

I also remember seeing a photo of a bo bo hauling a rake of well wagons loaded with tanks or armoured vehicles, does anyone have that photo in a book or mag?

 

Tom

I also remember the photo you talked about but I can't remember where I saw it. IIRC London Transport were involved in the preparations for D Day and it was part of that. 

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I realize that the photos earlier in this thread are probably of pre-production models - I don't know why some parts are white though (except the fuse boxes which should be weathered white). However for me the appearance is spoiled by several features:-

 

1. the glazing corners detract somewhat - this is presumably an attempt to make it flush but it looks awful.

2. the buffer heads are oversized and the incorrect shape - photo post #55

3. the additional straight drip-rail or gutter over the side door and window is missing, this is quite a prominent feature, likewise the side mirror - photo post #55 (edit - have since realized this drip-rail is a modern feature not fitted to the original prototypes)

4. the handrail knobs are vastly overscale.

5. Bogies should be black and the shoe beams grey.

 

Apologies if this seems picky but with such a plain shaped loco the details are all the more important to me.

Edited by Jeff Smith
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I realize that the photos earlier in this thread are probably of pre-production models - I don't know why some parts are white though (except the fuse boxes which should be weathered white). However for me the appearance is spoiled by several features:-

 

 

5. Bogies should be black and the shoe beams grey.

 

Apologies if this seems picky but with such a plain shaped loco the details are all the more important to me.

 

 

This is an engineering protoype.  Heljan are well known for producing such samples in odd colours to see if the general shape is ok,  eg #100 on this thread:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/3193-Heljan-baby-deltic/page-4

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Seems strange to do this as it evidently provokes a comment like mine.....a little work with a paintbrush is all it would have taken....

 

Not really, then you lose the detail you are trying to spot.  Engineering samples are often all kinds of crazy colours depending on what the factory has been running that day, the point is to show the shape and form and to pick out missing details, incorrectly injected areas or moulding errors and to give people a sense of what it looks like to get feedback.  It's not a painted sample or a sales sample, but a test of the tooling to confirm that everything is working and that the model goes together as it should.  Some of your comments about the details being wrong or oversized might actually be helpful to Heljan if you communicated them to them, rather than wait on the finished product and saying they got it wrong.

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Not really, then you lose the detail you are trying to spot.  Engineering samples are often all kinds of crazy colours depending on what the factory has been running that day, the point is to show the shape and form and to pick out missing details, incorrectly injected areas or moulding errors and to give people a sense of what it looks like to get feedback.  It's not a painted sample or a sales sample, but a test of the tooling to confirm that everything is working and that the model goes together as it should.  Some of your comments about the details being wrong or oversized might actually be helpful to Heljan if you communicated them to them, rather than wait on the finished product and saying they got it wrong.

You are probably right regarding test pieces in whatever colour is available that day - I know very little about injection moulding.  However from a marketing standpoint the potential buyers do not need to see these - they need to see something representative of what they might actually want to buy.....  I'm also sure that price and robustness rules when it comes to decisions about how true to scale to make certain add-ons such as hand-rails and knobs, vacuum pipes, and some moulded-on features.  After all we need something to super detail and improve.  The recent Rapido 00 APT-E launch quotes a specification which includes provision for drop-in EM or P4 wheels - I would hope that all 00 manufacturers will be doing this in future.

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You are entitled to your opinion of course Jeff, but I think looking about RMWeb you will see most people DO want to see these early mould shots.  It also shows the models aren't 'vapourware' but are in process of production.  The criticism Hornby have taken of late confirms this. 

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You are entitled to your opinion of course Jeff, but I think looking about RMWeb you will see most people DO want to see these early mould shots.  It also shows the models aren't 'vapourware' but are in process of production.  The criticism Hornby have taken of late confirms this.

 

A manufacturer would be foolish to ignore such free and knowledgable appraisals, I remember the criticism the Heljan 86 received at the CAD stage and subsequently when the necessary alterations weren't made.

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Yes, I agree about the need to see that something is in the works.  Nevertheless I'm sure there are marketing reasons for 'leaking' future products backed up with evidence as against coming to market with a finished available surprise model.  For example the Heljan announcement has caused Phil at Radley models to stop producing his Bo-Bo kit - this however may have been a business decision on his part so that he wasn't left with un-sold kits and parts.......

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 The recent Rapido 00 APT-E launch quotes a specification which includes provision for drop-in EM or P4 wheels - I would hope that all 00 manufacturers will be doing this in future.

Why?

It is such a small part of the market.

Even then it is a fragmented market.

Dapol did try at one time and actually went as far as including a set of EM wheels with the J94.

That experiment soon came to an end.

The "big two" have more than enough out of control problems at present, without the need to add another that can be avoided.

Bernard

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Because it would be cost neutral. The spaces between axle boxes or brake shoes would merely be scale width rather than an 'invented' narrower dimension. I would have thought any feature that potentially increases sales without significant extra cost would be worthy of consideration. I would not expect the manufacturer to supply replacement wheels as well - this would be a poor marketing strategy...

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Because it would be cost neutral. The spaces between axle boxes or brake shoes would merely be scale width rather than an 'invented' narrower dimension. I would have thought any feature that potentially increases sales without significant extra cost would be worthy of consideration. ...

 

But then the change might also lose sales: despite really wanting several, I never bought a single Stove R because the brakes were floating what looked like miles away from the wheels, presumably to accommodate the wider gauges. It was a compromise too far for me to live with.

 

If there's anything visually similar happening on the APT-E, that will be the last sale they ever get from me. (Though I'm all geared-up to buy a couple of Mets...)

 

Paul

Edited by Fenman
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But then the change might also lose sales: despite really wanting several, I never bought a single Stove R because the brakes were floating what looked like miles away from the wheels, presumably to accommodate the wider gauges. It was a compromise too far for me to live with.

 

If there's anything visually similar happening on the APT-E, that will be the last sale they ever get from me. (Though I'm all geared-up to buy a couple of Mets...)

 

Paul

Don't think the APT-E has obviously visible brake shoes. The main brakes were H-K (so the model should have very large hollow axles) while the friction brakes were probably discs (can't say I noticed when I was there on Tuesday). Anyway, it is these sort of 'you can't please all the people all the time' compromises which might well make Jason wish he'd stuck with 'HO' !!

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Don't think the APT-E has obviously visible brake shoes. The main brakes were H-K (so the model should have very large hollow axles) while the friction brakes were probably discs (can't say I noticed when I was there on Tuesday). Anyway, it is these sort of 'you can't please all the people all the time' compromises which might well make Jason wish he'd stuck with 'HO' !!

Apologies for continuing off topic, but just to clarify it wasn't disc braked, it had conventional brake shoes. Just visible in my photo from Tuesday.

post-13109-0-84318000-1403795103_thumb.jpg

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Yes, but moving the brakes in to line up with 00 wheels accentuates the narrow gauge look.....anyway, that's another bag of worms!

Just did some sums and was surprised with the following approximate numbers for wheel-set overall widths :-

 

OO = 20mm

P4 = 21mm

EM = 22mm - assuming use of OO wheels re-gauged

 

This means that EM would likely be the more challenging conversion.  I'm happy to be corrected if I've got these wrong.

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  • 1 month later...
  • 1 month later...

What's the difference with the Metropolitan livery? Plenty of pics of the LT ones online but can't find the older metropolitan even on models.

With acknowledgement to the person who sent me this picture a while ago - here is the recreated Metropolitan livery on Sarah Siddons. Differences from the LT post-war livery are:-

- lighter shade of red, Metropolitan red was originally thought to be Midland red but became darker over the years until reaching the LT version as on No 5 in the LT Museum.

- full lining, at one time there was black between the yellow lines

- more elaborate three part nameplate

- Metropolitan crests

- different number font

 

post-7723-0-72236100-1411942388_thumb.jpg

Edited by Jeff Smith
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