GoingUnderground Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I've finally started to build a number of kits that I've bought over the years from Harrow Model Shop and latterly Phil Radley, including his Met British Westinghouse Camel Back, the new Met BTH Bo-Bo kit, and now the Met MetroVic Bo-Bo. Feeling pleased with the work that I've done so far on the BW and BTH locos, in adding solebars, I decided to try to go a bit further with the MetroVic. The problems with the MetroVic as I see it mainly revolve around the chassis: It's too tall; The solebar is too thick; It lacks the lifting eyes; There is no buckeye coupler mounting below the screw link coupling housing; The fuse housings are all wrong; There are no bus line jumpers; The buffer beam is too tall; The buffers are the wrong pattern; The steps are too coarse, the wrong design, and not on straight. On the bodyshshell: The roof shape above the cab is too vertical The roof seams are too thick The destination board is mounted slightly too high The front handrail below the destination board holder is too high So armed with Ian Huntley's book, the LURS reprint of KR Benest's Metropoltan Electric Locos, photos of Sarah Siddons taken over recent years, and more recently photots of John Hampden (No 5) in Covent Garden, I decided to have a go at making some improvements. The kit is the Mk3 version, with a resin body and chassis, with power coming from a Black Beetle and accompanying dummy bogies. The earlier Mk2 version had a resin body, but white metal underpinnings and an open frame motor driving, whilst the Mk1 version was all white metal with the oven frame motor. I think I've managed to fix most of the problems, possibly not quite as well as I might, but the photo below shows the finished article, prior to painting against a second kit in its "as supplied" state. What I've also done is converted the dummy Black Beetle to a powered version, all it took was the right Mashima motor and gear set, courtesy of Branchlines who were very helpful. For me this just proves that there is potentially a very good model trying to escape from the Radley kit. I hope you agree with me that it was worth it. I certainly enjoyed doing it, and I've a Mk2 version and two more Mk3 kits to upgrade. The Mk2 will be harder with the white metal chassis. Has anyone else done anything similar to any Radley kit? If you have perhaps you'd post photos in this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Narnia Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Looking good! Oh I could write a book on the number of mods I've done to the kits! They are generally good kits but some are very old now and like you I can't help but modify them. Some if the mods I've done include the following: Reworked the T stock DM so it reflects the MV 1927 car Major rework for my A stock fleet Conversion of Q stock cars to CO/CP stock Reworking of Acton shuttle to Q23 stock I'll put up some photos at some point Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 I know someone who is doing a major rework of the A Stock from the bogies up, literally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Narnia Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I was going to look at adding extra detail to them too. The mods I've done are for refurbished A stock. New headlight pods, infill the M door so it is flush, change the cab roof dome and fill the ventilator, add the whistle box, provide inter car barrier nibs, at wipers, new grab handles, headstock, calling on light, change the end guards door top to be square, square the communication door windows, add emergency car lights at the inner ends of the cars and change the door fault light locations on the trailers as well as alter the internal bulkheads to reflect the refurb!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Narnia Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Following on from the A stock I have converted the Q38 stock to CO/CP stock. Here is a CP 'D' end car with modifications...... https://www.flickr.com/photos/25182511@N08/13488241595/in/photostream/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/25182511@N08/13488622124/in/photostream/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Here's some pictures I've posted before. A resin bodied Dreadnought in P4 with new bogies, grab and door handles, rebuild brake-end detail, new buffers, new underframe details (as virtually nothing comes with the kit), etc. I didn't tackle the Bo-Bo but scratch built one in plasticard. I used custom made BullAnt bogies which presumably could also be used on the Radley model. I used the Radley bogie sides for both models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I've finally started to build a number of kits that I've bought over the years from Harrow Model Shop and latterly Phil Radley, including his Met British Westinghouse Camel Back, the new Met BTH Bo-Bo kit, and now the Met MetroVic Bo-Bo. Feeling pleased with the work that I've done so far on the BW and BTH locos, in adding solebars, I decided to try to go a bit further with the MetroVic. The problems with the MetroVic as I see it mainly revolve around the chassis: It's too tall; The solebar is too thick; It lacks the lifting eyes; There is no buckeye coupler mounting below the screw link coupling housing; The fuse housings are all wrong; There are no bus line jumpers; The buffer beam is too tall; The buffers are the wrong pattern; The steps are too coarse, the wrong design, and not on straight. On the bodyshshell: The roof shape above the cab is too vertical The roof seams are too thick The destination board is mounted slightly too high The front handrail below the destination board holder is too high So armed with Ian Huntley's book, the LURS reprint of KR Benest's Metropoltan Electric Locos, photos of Sarah Siddons taken over recent years, and more recently photots of John Hampden (No 5) in Covent Garden, I decided to have a go at making some improvements. The kit is the Mk3 version, with a resin body and chassis, with power coming from a Black Beetle and accompanying dummy bogies. The earlier Mk2 version had a resin body, but white metal underpinnings and an open frame motor driving, whilst the Mk1 version was all white metal with the oven frame motor. I think I've managed to fix most of the problems, possibly not quite as well as I might, but the photo below shows the finished article, prior to painting against a second kit in its "as supplied" state. IMG_5396.jpg What I've also done is converted the dummy Black Beetle to a powered version, all it took was the right Mashima motor and gear set, courtesy of Branchlines who were very helpful. For me this just proves that there is potentially a very good model trying to escape from the Radley kit. I hope you agree with me that it was worth it. I certainly enjoyed doing it, and I've a Mk2 version and two more Mk3 kits to upgrade. The Mk2 will be harder with the white metal chassis. Has anyone else done anything similar to any Radley kit? If you have perhaps you'd post photos in this thread. Would anyone do it now that a Heljan model is breaking cover? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted April 17, 2014 Author Share Posted April 17, 2014 Would anyone do it now that a Heljan model is breaking cover? No, of course they wouldn't buy a kit from new when there is an RTR model available. I'm surprised that you even bothered to ask. It is an academic question anyway as the full kit is no longer available. Phil Radley has some body shells left, but that's all. He no longer stocks the Black Beetles for it. He won't make any more as when the Heljan model is released it will saturate the market for the model. I did it as I bought the kit some time ago and only recently had the time to start it. The precedent is the EFE 1938 and 1959/62 stock. These used to be available as kits, but the kits are no more as the EFE models saturated the market. If someone new to LT modelling wants a 38 or 59/62 Stock train it's a case of buying a new EFE 4 car set from the LT Museum or finding another retailer with a set on the shelf, or looking on ebay, or scratchbuilding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 You'll still need coaches to go with it....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted April 17, 2014 Author Share Posted April 17, 2014 You'll still need coaches to go with it....... If folks didn't want the loco as a kit, will they want the coaches as kits? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 If you want Dreadnought coaches your choices are limited. - Radley kits - easy enough to make but in my opinion overpriced - Radley RTR - expensive and basic - Scratch built - there is enough reference material to do this - Wait for the Mousa resin/3d printed kits to be available - will be excellent, at a price - Wait for commercial RTR A comment on Radley pricing; a Dreadnought kit is £60, a Bo-Bo resin body, chassis/floor , bogies and flush glazing is £32........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted April 17, 2014 Author Share Posted April 17, 2014 If you want Dreadnought coaches your choices are limited. - Radley kits - easy enough to make but in my opinion overpriced - Radley RTR - expensive and basic - Scratch built - there is enough reference material to do this - Wait for the Mousa resin/3d printed kits to be available - will be excellent, at a price - Wait for commercial RTR A comment on Radley pricing; a Dreadnought kit is £60, a Bo-Bo resin body, chassis/floor , bogies and flush glazing is £32........ Small volume production kits are usually more expensive than a comparable RTR item from one of the main manufacturer, and the Radley ones are no exception. Paying to have one made up will be expensive unless the guy making them up underprices his time. Scratch building is out of the question for many. Will people want to pay for the Mousa kits or make them themselves? I suspect not, and will make do with hauling look-alike coaches behind their Heljan locos. I don't think anyone has announced Dreadnought cariages, yet, so they may, or may not, have a long wait. The Dreadnought kits include wheelsets, bearings, transfers, wire for the underframe, and I think the more recent ones include the small Tensionlok couplings. The Dreadnought is twice the size of a Bo-Bo which I would have thought, (I've never tried resin casting myself), increases the possibility of reject castings. I don't know how much white metal is used in the latest Dreadnoughts, but there's none in the MetroVic parts. White metal parts must be more expensive than the same items in resin as the raw materials would be more expensive and I'd have thought that the moulding process would also be more costly. On the latest MetroVic the bogies are a resin shell to fit over the Black Beetle motor and non-powered bogie. Phil recently told me that orders for his MetroVics stopped when Heljan announced their model, and I'm guessing that he's priced his remaining MetroVic parts set to get what he can for them. So on the pricing issue, I don't think that you're comparing like with like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Keith, yes, I agree with most of that. The current Dreadnought kits actually don't come with wheels. Also there were two different types of bogies available, white metal original pattern as delivered, resin later type as in LT days. I'm not sure that the size of a resin body would necessarily affect the cost significantly. The Bo-Bo is much thicker than the Dreadnought so probably uses as much resin. The real cost is in the master and mould. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted April 18, 2014 Author Share Posted April 18, 2014 Hi Jeff, Apologies, I hadn't realised that Phil had stopped including wheelsets with the Dreadnought kits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Narnia Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Fear not, Phil and I are currently working on a little plan to hopefully overcome many of the above concerns..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 I need a rake of dreadnoughts at some point for our Aylesbury model, I think what we may do is laser cut the sides and ends in 0.2 and 0.5 Perspex David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 If I may offer some constructive criticism on the Dreadnought kit I built:- - it would be better not to include the buffers as part of the main body, mine were sticking upward and one had broken off in transit. - include underframe details, brake cylinder, generator, etc - make bogies wide enough for EM/P4, I know that OO axles are shorter but I'm sure could be accommodated - make the ride height correct, mine would have been too high if built as supplied. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Narnia Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Thanks Jeff I'll take all that into account. There are new metal K2 bogies available that will certainly fit EM gauge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Narnia Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Thanks Jeff I'll take all that into account. There are new metal K2 bogies available that will certainly fit EM gauge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Thanks for accepting that with the spirit intended. On the plus side I found the body sides commendably thin and the roof fitted pretty well with a little adjustment. The seats were great. I used MJT compensated bogies but am not convinced that compensation is really necessary for P4 coach bogies as long as they are dead square and level. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerE Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 A few years ago, back in the late 1980s-90s, a small supplier (I think it was called A1 models, but might be wrong) started to produce etched brass kits of the Dreadnought stock. They were very good, but the owner had health issues and gave up before everything was completed. I have a couple of kits, which are complete except for bogies which he never completed. I completed one, up to the stage of the bogie, and it looked superb. However it got destroyed during a break-in when it was trodden on by whoever wanted my pillar drill. I will get round to building the other one day, but I will be buying the Bill Bedford (Mousa) kits when available, as the test resin castings look absolutely superb, and I know they have been designed with P4 in mind Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Narnia Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I now have the ok to start preparing the new dreadnought kits for Radley models. They will be available ready to run or as an easy build kit without all the fuss of soldering! Thanks for all the comments and advice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 I've finally started to build a number of kits that I've bought over the years from Harrow Model Shop and latterly Phil Radley, including his Met British Westinghouse Camel Back, the new Met BTH Bo-Bo kit, and now the Met MetroVic Bo-Bo. Feeling pleased with the work that I've done so far on the BW and BTH locos, in adding solebars, I decided to try to go a bit further with the MetroVic. The problems with the MetroVic as I see it mainly revolve around the chassis: It's too tall; The solebar is too thick; It lacks the lifting eyes; There is no buckeye coupler mounting below the screw link coupling housing; The fuse housings are all wrong; There are no bus line jumpers; The buffer beam is too tall; The buffers are the wrong pattern; The steps are too coarse, the wrong design, and not on straight. On the bodyshshell: The roof shape above the cab is too vertical The roof seams are too thick The destination board is mounted slightly too high The front handrail below the destination board holder is too high So armed with Ian Huntley's book, the LURS reprint of KR Benest's Metropoltan Electric Locos, photos of Sarah Siddons taken over recent years, and more recently photots of John Hampden (No 5) in Covent Garden, I decided to have a go at making some improvements. The kit is the Mk3 version, with a resin body and chassis, with power coming from a Black Beetle and accompanying dummy bogies. The earlier Mk2 version had a resin body, but white metal underpinnings and an open frame motor driving, whilst the Mk1 version was all white metal with the oven frame motor. I think I've managed to fix most of the problems, possibly not quite as well as I might, but the photo below shows the finished article, prior to painting against a second kit in its "as supplied" state. IMG_5396.jpg .....Has anyone else done anything similar to any Radley kit? Having read this again, I think I now have a terrible Metro itch that must somehow be scratched...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 I once purchased a load of Radley kits which had been bundled together with a lot of GWR kits at auction, in the somewhat mistaken (if not plain naive) belief that they were GWR dreadnought coaches. I obviously realised my mistake as soon as the package arrived from the auction house. Thankfully I was able to resell them all on Ebay and together with some of the GWR kits that I didn't need was able to more than cover the cost of the original purchase and be left over with some kits that I did want. Even though they were not the kits I thought they were I do remember thinking that they looked quite good - as kits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 ..... I do remember thinking that they looked quite good - as kits. I'll have to have a go at that Bo-Bo before long. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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