The Eagle has landed...

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, LNER4479 said:

All three. Just knock through the walls to create a 'system' layout. You know it makes sense.

A modern-day Millport and Selfield?

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Could somebody give those nice chaps at Peco a nudge to hurry up and produce some more #6 code83 turnouts, I've been waiting for months now...

 

In the meantime a pair of crossings turned up so I have made a start on the cut-off.

 

 

 

I'm also rebuilding the terminus along more Germanic lines...

 

 

It's all going rather well.  

[Lacathedrale]

Thank you both for ideas, I will ponder!

 

The new changes look lovely! What are the main thrust of the changes to teutonise the plan? Presumably right hand running, but anything else? Did you get as far as car-card and waybill operation when you had it not-in-bits?

 

Still waiting for that video tour

 

Edited January 15, 2021 by Lacathedrale

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Lacathedrale said:

Thank you both for ideas, I will ponder!

 

The new changes look lovely! What are the main thrust of the changes to teutonise the plan? Presumably right hand running, but anything else? Did you get as far as car-card and waybill operation when you had it not-in-bits?

 

Still waiting for that video tour

 

Lots of double slips would be my guess.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

The main changes are:  the station will now be a series of straight loops parallel to a single platform or possibly two platforms in the approved German manner.  The line up to the terminus will be single track (hence in the second photo you can see a curving track that by passes the crossing, making in effect a very attenuated single slip).  I am also hoping to slot in a few storage roads under the terminus on the double track oval.

 

This should enhance the freight handling, and give a bit more room for scenery.  Access was a bit of a bind with the curved station, I couldn't easily reach to do uncoupling and the kadee ramps didn't seem very effective either - so the new station should be much more effective to operate as well as looking somewhat more authentic.

 

Trains will be able to run terminus to terminus; terminus to loop and back; and in either direction circle the oval infinitely while I do other things.  These changes should give it more play value for a single operator.

 

 

 

[Keith Addenbrooke]

18 hours ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

Could somebody give those nice chaps at Peco a nudge to hurry up and produce some more #6 code83 turnouts, I've been waiting for months now...

Most other switches seem to be available again now (albeit in limited quantities).  My guess is that any #6 switches, being the ‘default item’, may get shipped to larger overseas markets (including the US) as a priority, and we’re way down the queue.  Although Peco #5 switches aren’t much shorter along the straight, I’m not sure many will see them as a substitute.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Quite a lot of civil engineering going on to fit the new cut off.

 

 

Feels like I'm going backwards at the moment as every inch of the layout is a wreck...

[Lacathedrale]

Well as if by some bizarre coincidence the property I'm buying has a 14' x 8' insulated, powered shed just by the back of the house! i think at this rate though, it's going to end up with a workshop for a live-steam garden railway more than a layout room!

[Lacathedrale]

Any updates, @Dr Gerbil-Fritters ?

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

On 14/01/2021 at 22:44, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

It's all going rather well.  

 

Ahahahahaha.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

On 07/02/2021 at 10:54, Lacathedrale said:

Any updates, @Dr Gerbil-Fritters ?

 

Yes, but none of the photogenic kind.  I'm rebuilding the benchwork to eliminate a couple of flaws that could no longer be tolerated. Some were design flaws others were my p155 poor wood working.  

 

It'll be a while before there's anything positive to report.  

 

In the meantime there will be some bay of e selling going on as some earlier interests leave the property.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Things have been quiet on the shed front - too darn cold.  Work is busy, and I am also having a rethink based on moving the layout from BR(S) and CIE to Germany in the last days of steam.

 

I liked the overall schematic of the layout, the return loop worked as well as expected and not having to 'fiddle' trains to return to the station was great.  However, I really didn't like the second duck under (one is enough!) and I missed the walking around driving the train that I have with the NCE Powercab.  

 

So I needed to change the terminus to something 'more Germanic' for want of a better phrase, and I wanted to eliminate the second duck under, whilst retaining a 'terminus to return loop with cut-off for continuous running' schematic.  

 

A bigger shed would do the trick, but in the absence of that ever happening I needed to rethink some of my options.  If  I can live with an 18" minimum curve radius (and I can, if I don't have to look at it!) and move the return loop to the end of the shed that already has a duck under... and if I can find a somewhat prototypical plan that will fit the space, and leave room for some scenery...

 

A few nights scribbling in a notebook, and delving into the online world of German Railways model and real (Google Translate is your friend) I soon realized that I also needed to up my planning game, as I was endlessly trying to squeeze too much in.

 

So, one copy of AnyRail later, and this is what I have so far.

 

The visible stuff...

 

and the hidden stuff

 

I'm quite pleased so far.  It's taken a lot of brainiac stuff to get this far, but it seems to fit together quite elegantly. 

 

The real Grafenberg is near Nuremberg, and has an unusual amount of track simply because traffic levels exceeded expectations.  Commuters into Nuremberg, and weekenders wanting a bit of countryside to visit kept the place busy.    It still has a station to this day, but not very interesting now.  I've added a quarry so I can have a little bit more freight traffic than Grafenberg alone would support, and on the lower deck is another small wayside station where trains can pass or overtake, and a little shunting can take place.  This will hopefully give more puspose to driving trains around, so it feels more like part of a system, rather than just a diorama of a station.

 

The reason for selecting the very end of German steam is so that I can use some surprisingly large engines on small trains.  So, if this sits in West Germany it could be set around 1976ish, and in East Germany around 1986ish...

 

I'm not going to get too hung up on that aspect though.  It's supposed to be fun, not a History PhD.

 

This chap has nicely modelled Grafenberg, and posted some decent videos showing operations in 1955 and 1962...

 

 

As always, your thoughts are welcomed.

 

 

[Allegheny1600]

Hi Dr G-F,

I’m guessing that you have found “Stummis” forum then!? When I’m in a particularly German frame of mind, it’s my favourite place, as long as my translator is working okay.

I am a keen follower of the chap linked in your video, that’s some wonderful modelling there.

 The plan looks pretty good, I’m slightly confused as to the terminus tracks though, are they simply freight sidings? If so, no worries.

 I assume the loops in front of the station, are the platform roads, that looks completely typical of German, nay, European station plans.

Have you had success getting your 2-10-0s around the return loop?

Cheers,

John

[St Enodoc]

9 hours ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

Things have been quiet on the shed front - too darn cold.  Work is busy, and I am also having a rethink based on moving the layout from BR(S) and CIE to Germany in the last days of steam.

 

I liked the overall schematic of the layout, the return loop worked as well as expected and not having to 'fiddle' trains to return to the station was great.  However, I really didn't like the second duck under (one is enough!) and I missed the walking around driving the train that I have with the NCE Powercab.  

 

So I needed to change the terminus to something 'more Germanic' for want of a better phrase, and I wanted to eliminate the second duck under, whilst retaining a 'terminus to return loop with cut-off for continuous running' schematic.  

 

A bigger shed would do the trick, but in the absence of that ever happening I needed to rethink some of my options.  If  I can live with an 18" minimum curve radius (and I can, if I don't have to look at it!) and move the return loop to the end of the shed that already has a duck under... and if I can find a somewhat prototypical plan that will fit the space, and leave room for some scenery...

 

A few nights scribbling in a notebook, and delving into the online world of German Railways model and real (Google Translate is your friend) I soon realized that I also needed to up my planning game, as I was endlessly trying to squeeze too much in.

 

So, one copy of AnyRail later, and this is what I have so far.

 

The visible stuff...

 

and the hidden stuff

 

I'm quite pleased so far.  It's taken a lot of brainiac stuff to get this far, but it seems to fit together quite elegantly. 

 

The real Grafenberg is near Nuremberg, and has an unusual amount of track simply because traffic levels exceeded expectations.  Commuters into Nuremberg, and weekenders wanting a bit of countryside to visit kept the place busy.    It still has a station to this day, but not very interesting now.  I've added a quarry so I can have a little bit more freight traffic than Grafenberg alone would support, and on the lower deck is another small wayside station where trains can pass or overtake, and a little shunting can take place.  This will hopefully give more puspose to driving trains around, so it feels more like part of a system, rather than just a diorama of a station.

 

The reason for selecting the very end of German steam is so that I can use some surprisingly large engines on small trains.  So, if this sits in West Germany it could be set around 1976ish, and in East Germany around 1986ish...

 

I'm not going to get too hung up on that aspect though.  It's supposed to be fun, not a History PhD.

 

This chap has nicely modelled Grafenberg, and posted some decent videos showing operations in 1955 and 1962...

 

 

As always, your thoughts are welcomed.

 

 

Are you sure that's a German station? I can't see any double slips...

[LNER4479]

Nice track plan.

 

I presume it's a conscious decision to go single track? That way the lower level through station becomes a passing place, which makes it interesting operationally. You could always install a hidden crossover over on the right hand side (linking the return loop to the running line at B) to give you a continuous run, even just for testing stock.

 

My other comment concerns the curve at the left hand end (as viewed on the plan), ie from the through station to the tunnel at C. It looks quite nice as is - but then I counted up the squares and it's only 3 foot radius. Perfectly OK running-wise, but visually you could easily make this a 5 foot radius curve with a nice transition into the station area. You could combine this with positioning the station at a slight angle so that it's nearer the wall at the left hand end than the right hand end. I think that such subtle changes can increase the feeling of space even though your overall space is not massive. Keep the tight curves in the hidden areas.

 

HTH?

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

15 hours ago, Allegheny1600 said:

Have you had success getting your 2-10-0s around the return loop?

 

Ay, there's the rub... 

 

The Roco information pages suggest that it is possible, listing 358 mm as the minimum drivable radius.   We shall see, physical testing will have to wait a while.  

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

As well as the excellent youtube channel  shared previously, I have found other useful information that helped me decide to use Grafenberg as a basis for an interesting model here, here, and here.

 

I've taken some liberties with the plan, most obviously moving the lokschuppen to the opposite side of the site to take advantage of the dead space there.  

 

I shall see if I can incorporate some more of the distinctive curve to the plan when construction time comes around.  

 

 

 

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

2 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

I presume it's a conscious decision to go single track? That way the lower level through station becomes a passing place, which makes it interesting operationally. You could always install a hidden crossover over on the right hand side (linking the return loop to the running line at B) to give you a continuous run, even just for testing stock.

 

Yes, the single track is more appropriate for a line of this kind.  Also, as you rightly identified, it means the intermediate station has an operational purpose to pass or overtake trains.

 

I had planned for a connection to support a continuous run dodge crossover adjacent to C.  This is more for amusement than anything else - i invested in a rolling road for more scientific testing!

[Lacathedrale]

Very interesting stuff! I think a system layout (as per my thread in the layout planning forum) has so much potential, but I guess the balance is making it interesting enough for a single person while not being too much - and being achievable! Paddington-Seagood has two terminals, a junction, a passing terminus and a regular way station. Do you think you could incorporate one of the features into your passing station? I guess being a 14' x 8' shed rather than a large billiards room, you are a little limited in scope: http://templot.com/martweb/info_files/seagood.htm

 

In terms of attraction - it seems you've settled on circling around BR(S) , CIE and German railways - what for you, is the sticking point for the latter? I can understand being stuck on BR(S) growing up in the south-west, but in aforementioned thread I pulled out some pictures of the Milwaukee Road layout you helped me design way back when, and I remembered it was disassembled almost as soon as it was scenically complete because I just couldn't hold enthusiasm for something so remote!

[F-UnitMad]

2 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

I pulled out some pictures of the Milwaukee Road layout you helped me design way back when, and I remembered it was disassembled almost as soon as it was scenically complete because I just couldn't hold enthusiasm for something so remote!

Interesting situation, that. In my case my memories/first interest are BR Blue, 1977 onwards. By most theories of what & why we model, that's what I should be into. But since 1988-ish my main focus & interest has been the Soo Line, which I've never seen 'for real'. 

I think for BR Blue, so many modellers do it so much better than I could, plus I don't particularly like being in the 'mainstream', with the same models as many, many others. With the Soo Line, the distinctive livery attracted me at first, and most of my models in either N or O I've had to repaint myself, as well as add specific details. American O is still well outside of the British mainstream, too.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

I've definitely passed over the BR(S) idea... the stock will be going to a much better place as soon as I can waddle my fat lockdown ass up to the postoffice.

 

The deciding factor was that I simply can't get on with Hornby models.  They just don't do it for me, with their peculiar shades of green, flimsy construction and poor quality control.  I've also rediscovered my aversion to 'OO' as a scale/gauge thing.  It just looks wrong in my shed, a mixture of too bulky and the teetering effect of the narrow gauge and the rolling stock being so tall.

 

I adore my CIE diesels but loathe the ridiculous orange stripey coaches... and the teetering effect is even worse as they should be on track that's got an extra 4.5mm... even I can see that discrepancy.

 

So I shall dump that lot on the bay of e shortly.

 

So I ended up back at HO by default, but with no real desire to go back to US modelling.  I've gone right off the US lately, can't think why!

 

A preexisting interest in German Railways seemed promising... readily available rolling stock and plastic building kits clinched it really.  Given the space I have and the compromises therein, so far it seems to be working out all right.  

[skipepsi]

I can understand that feeling I sometimes want to sell all the rtr  00, US H0, British and US 0 and revert back to the L&Y in P4 bits of brass that need soldering together.  No disposable income rules out Germany east or west.

Mick 

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2021 by skipepsi
Edit lack of ,

[Clive Mortimore]

26 minutes ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

I've definitely passed over the BR(S) idea... the stock will be going to a much better place as soon as I can waddle my fat lockdown ass up to the postoffice.

 

The deciding factor was that I simply can't get on with Hornby models.  They just don't do it for me, with their peculiar shades of green, flimsy construction and poor quality control.  I've also rediscovered my aversion to 'OO' as a scale/gauge thing.  It just looks wrong in my shed, a mixture of too bulky and the teetering effect of the narrow gauge and the rolling stock being so tall.

 

I adore my CIE diesels but loathe the ridiculous orange stripey coaches... and the teetering effect is even worse as they should be on track that's got an extra 4.5mm... even I can see that discrepancy.

 

So I shall dump that lot on the bay of e shortly.

 

So I ended up back at HO by default, but with no real desire to go back to US modelling.  I've gone right off the US lately, can't think why!

 

A preexisting interest in German Railways seemed promising... readily available rolling stock and plastic building kits clinched it really.  Given the space I have and the compromises therein, so far it seems to be working out all right.  

Yo Doc,

 

You'll make your mind up one day.

[Allegheny1600]

1 hour ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

I've definitely passed over the BR(S) idea... the stock will be going to a much better place as soon as I can waddle my fat lockdown ass up to the postoffice.

 

The deciding factor was that I simply can't get on with Hornby models.  They just don't do it for me, with their peculiar shades of green, flimsy construction and poor quality control.  I've also rediscovered my aversion to 'OO' as a scale/gauge thing.  It just looks wrong in my shed, a mixture of too bulky and the teetering effect of the narrow gauge and the rolling stock being so tall.

 

I adore my CIE diesels but loathe the ridiculous orange stripey coaches... and the teetering effect is even worse as they should be on track that's got an extra 4.5mm... even I can see that discrepancy.

 

So I shall dump that lot on the bay of e shortly.

 

So I ended up back at HO by default, but with no real desire to go back to US modelling.  I've gone right off the US lately, can't think why!

 

A preexisting interest in German Railways seemed promising... readily available rolling stock and plastic building kits clinched it really.  Given the space I have and the compromises therein, so far it seems to be working out all right.  

Are you, me!?!

Only joking of course but I feel the same way and have done for quite a while now. Every now and then, I do feel envious of some of the current British outline models that are very nearly here but then I realise they still have that narrow gauge look that I can’t ignore. I resolve my British outline desires by continuing to model H0 scale!

 I know very little about the Irish stuff, it looks very nice but I think it would grate with me about the gauge difference.

Finally, I have a love/hate relationship with the USA too, this rather depends on how stupid I perceive that country to have been recently! I’m saying no more on this but my rot set in over some hanging chads!

 I had heard from certain members of a previous club, just how nice German outline models were and my own experience with Austrian models concurred with this so a house move that brought me into contact with an old NMRA acquaintance who was by now modelling German outline some 15 years ago, set me on my path that I’m on now.

 I now have a group of just three friends who get together when we can even though we are now spread over three countries, we each have or are building large multi track layouts with multi train operations and the ability to take a model that simply works as it should, allows us to concentrate on other matters, rather than endless tinkering.

Cheers,

John.

 

PS All that really matters is that you enjoy what you’re doing!

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

5 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Yo Doc,

 

You'll make your mind up one day.

 

But will I have to spin round and have my skirt whipped off?