Coarse Scale O Gauge

[Nearholmer]

PM me, quick!

 

Kevin

[strangelygreen]

PM me, quick!

 

Kevin

I just did!!

Rich

[brianusa]

So what happened?

 

Brian.

[sagaguy]

AAGGH.i wouldv`e taken the dealers arm off for that.It`s a Hornby 20v electric Southern railway L1,at 25 notes,its an absolute steal.This would probably be prewar.1930s period.

 

                      Ray.

Edited September 10, 2016 by sagaguy

[strangelygreen]

Thanks for the info. I had no idea what it was. I picked it up in an antiques centre in Hungerford a couple of weeks ago. It was in a box of Hornby O gauge stuff. There were some signals, track, couple of wagons, buffers and a few smaller locos. The chap wanted £80 for the lot. I 'm not into O gauge at all, I just liked the look of this loco and offered him £25 for it. The rest of the stuff might still be there!

[Nearholmer]

For anyone who doesn't know what it probably looked like originally. I think the picture show a the "clocker", and the big lamp In the smoke box version is here http://www.vectis.co.uk/Page/ViewLot.aspx?LotId=551275&Section=152

 

K

Edited September 11, 2016 by Nearholmer

[strangelygreen]

Why does it have 'special' in it's name?

[sagaguy]

Why does it have 'special' in it's name?

I think it was a marketing ploy by Meccano Ltd,They were very expensive even then.Hornby used the word " Special" in lots of their 0 gauge products.It really cries out to be totally restored,it`s a cracker of a find.Fully restored,it would be worth a great deal more than £25 & it would save another loco from the scrap heap.I spend a lot of my time restoring Hornby Dublo trains back to pristine condition

 

                       Ray.

Edited September 11, 2016 by sagaguy

[strangelygreen]

I like the fact that it still has it's original paint even if it is very tatty. I think it would be a shame to completely repaint it. To me it has extra charm and appeal because of it's condition. And it isn't on the scrapheap it is on a shelf in my 'man-cave'!

[Nearholmer]

Compared with some of the rest of the catalogue, they were, indeed, pretty special.

 

Here is the much more common Lord Nelson; start by looking at the wheel arrangement, then look at the rest.

 

But, as said previously, Hornby seem to have slapped the label 'special' around fairly liberally.

 

Kevin

[strangelygreen]

I sent pics of the loco to Mike Delaney who you may know. He runs a business called Vintage Hornby. He happens to be based near me. Here's what he said,

'The loco dates from 1935 and is called an E220 special, part of a range issued in 1929. The electric version was issued in 1934/35 which is what you have SR (Southern Railways) A759 L1 loco. In 1936 they changed the number to 1759 so yours is prior to that. The tender belongs to the Lord Nelson Loco so is mismatched with the Loco. The Loco and Tender were sold separately in shops so it is possible that they have been together a long time. The tender will date from 1934/35 to 1938. Any attempt to restore it will in my opinion be a shame.
It is a very hard to find loco in clockwork or electric but the condition does let it down.'

[brianusa]

As this is a distressed case which hasn't been seriously knocked about, it might be nice to keep in this "Barry" condition as Mike mentions..  Brush it off a bit, oil around and I bet it would run nicely.  Things like the wheels show no sign of distress and the pick ups are hardly marked, no serious dents which is a good sign although it might be difficult to find a suitable smokebox front.

 

If I obtained something like this, I'd have thrown away all the N gauge and gone back to the shop to pick up the rest!  Great find!

 

Brian.

[Northroader]

I'm a bit curious on the philosophy of keeping a very battered but rare loco in the original condition, with just a clean and an oil, as against trying to bodge up missing bits and doing a repaint? Do you go for something which to you looks good, or settle for something which might be money in the bank, although tatty??

[Il Grifone]

I can't argue with the identification of this bargain (a good one would probably be the wrong side of £1000). As to the vexed question of restoration, this is a personal matter. I would be inclined to deal with the rust and touch up with acrylic paint (Alcohol (meths/IPA) will probably shift it again without damaging the original paint, but experiment first. I can't accept responsibility.) As a guide, a good restoration is about equal in value to average (i.e. beat up) condition, but it would depend on the buyer. Some won't accept restorations of any kind.

 

There are specialist suppliers of of 0 gauge spares, who could probably supply a new smokebox door. An electric version should have a light but it looks ridiculous IMHO.

Edited September 12, 2016 by Il Grifone

[sagaguy]

I think that if you want to go down the restoration road,to do it properly,you have to be quite experienced in painting & sourcing the correct transfers(decals in todays parlance,how i hate that word).I Personally like to see tatty models restored as to near the condition that they came from the factory but of course, each to his own.Parts are available for Hornby 0 gauge & Dublo from the HRCA although you have to a member to buy .

 

                    Ray.

[Golden Fleece 30]

I know the HRCA spares catalogue is a large affair but I have to say mine goes straight in the bin every time it appears.  As a Dublo modeller it is of no use to me when most things are duplicated and the Internet provides people with at least the two main ones, Dennis Williams and Tony Cooper.  I used these people before I joined the HRCA and I will use (if necessary) when I leave.  To me people look at the directory and at first glance will say "that looks a lot" but when you look at the duplication's it would cut it down by probably a third.  I cannot say for 0 gauge modellers but for me it was a not necessary and a waste.

 

Garry

[Nearholmer]

There are degrees of conservation and/or resto, and in the happy circumstance of finding one like this, personally I would go for functional resto, to make it work, which might involve wiring, possibly motor re-wind etc, plus stabilising/removing corrosion, plus fitting replacements for the missing parts, in short a fairly minimalist approach, not involving much attention to the 'paintwork', beyond cleaning.

 

The fashion for minimal resto is possibly a reaction to some rather excessive things, bordering on unnecessary re-manufacture, certainly unnecessary stripping of paint,which were done in the past, then regretted.

 

K

[strangelygreen]

I'd much rather have tatty but original rather than bright and shiny and new looking. Bright and shiny and new looking is great on a new product or one that has been looked after but this loco plainly hasn't been kept in it's a box and has been played with by many people, over many years, and that to me is part of it's charm. I like to imagine all that it has gone through in it's life. Where it picked up this dent and that scratch. How it laid unloved in a box after many years of happy play. Antique dealers call it patina. It's part of it's history and it's appeal.

 

Of course all this is just my opinion. But then it is my loco. For the time being...

 

I friend of mine who is into O gauge is going to a Hornby Collectors meeting tonight where he has a friend who specialises in spares. He is going to try and get me a smokebox door. I'd like one from a clockwork model as, like David said, the ones with the big bulb look silly. So much for originality!

[Il Grifone]

AFAIK the only difference in the tenders is the number. It appears to have Midland origins and presumably appeared behind the Hornby compound as well.

[Golden Fleece 30]

I think that if you want to go down the restoration road,to do it properly,you have to be quite experienced in painting & sourcing the correct transfers(decals in todays parlance,how i hate that word).I Personally like to see tatty models restored as to near the condition that they came from the factory but of course, each to his own.Parts are available for Hornby 0 gauge & Dublo from the HRCA although you have to a member to buy .

 

                    Ray.

You don't have to be a member to buy from Dennis Williams or Tony Cooper, even Mick Turner goes to some swap-meets to sell items to the general public.

[5050]

I'd much rather have tatty but original rather than bright and shiny and new looking. Bright and shiny and new looking is great on a new product or one that has been looked after but this loco plainly hasn't been kept in it's a box and has been played with by many people, over many years, and that to me is part of it's charm. I like to imagine all that it has gone through in it's life. Where it picked up this dent and that scratch. How it laid unloved in a box after many years of happy play. Antique dealers call it patina. It's part of it's history and it's appeal.

As we say in the classic racing bike field - 'it only has its original paint once'.  This particularly applies to frames before, say 1980, where the brand/builder has gone - along with the correct decals transfers.  Keep it as it is, perhaps try a very light application of T-Cut or similar?

[brianusa]

GWR Toad brake van.  A test, after W10 upset a lot of my files.  Hope I can find the rest!

 

Brian.

[bertiedog]

A small correction, Bakers fluid Flux does not cause the joints to disintegrate on any soldering work, it is the lack of training of the solderer by the company or lack of knowledge by the works manager, Bakers is corrosive and must be washed away or neutralised before the next process.

 

Accidentally repeating the old soars about Bakers leaves a fine product with a bad reputation, brought about by users "not reading the instructions". Sorry to sound pedantic, but I taught soldering, and also used Bakers for 40 years or more, and no bad joints!!

 

I realise that you are referring to an existing problem, the base of which was bad practice by Bassett Lowke, not the product used.

 

Stephen

Edited December 3, 2016 by bertiedog

[Il Grifone]

Acid based fluxes are almost essential for soldering iron as it oxidises so quickly. Tinplate is not so fussy, as you are soldering to the tin, but abrasive cleaning can remove this. removal of flux residue is essential in this case (and always advisable).

 

 

I don't think any one has mentioned that the L1 is one of the rarest of the 4-4-0s. The model was replaced in the late thirties by the 'Schools'. This probably did not recover its tooling costs, as production ceased soon after the war broke out. (1940 I think)

Edited December 3, 2016 by Il Grifone

[Northroader]

I use Bakers acid with all my soldering jobs. Possibly with the euro inspired swing away from lead based solder (the reason I voted for brexit) cored solder is harder to find. The thing is, when you apply a hot iron to it, it etches the metal clean to achieve a good joint, but in doing so, it boils off, with a fine mist of vapour and droplets, which go looking for anything handy to condense on, and start rusting away. Consequently you need to either thoroughly clean everywhere close to the joint afterwards, and be sure to remove things such as steelrimmed wheels well away before starting the job. Then there's leaning over the job, breathing in...