7mm King Street Goods

[CME and Bottlewasher]

9 minutes ago, Barnaby said:

Mojo on its way back after a period of real life issues only to be wacked in the nuts by the software update that kept me out of here until today.

It made a right mess of my w10 PC in not allowing me to see photos, not being able to reply to topics, mis-aligned all over the page, unable to PM all of which left me unable to contact Andy for guidance.   

Martin Wynne 85A models and Templot has knowledge of the how's and why's of server software lives local to me so Ill give him a call to see why this software on my pc was such a pig when all other forums I visit were still fully accessible.  

 

Best

I hope that all is okay now?

 

I've not had alerts from your thread for months, until today.

 

I shall keep following with interest.

[Barnaby]

Thanks CME spent some time running my Fowler all over the cleaned off track to prove all still electrically sound, yes it is.

Before I complete the ballasting I'll add the mechanical point levers to my chosen position.  They will be by push-pull flexi rods from my RC aircraft days, initially by small wooden knobs on the front panel but i may later on use some of the levers sets I have.

 

Cheers

[Andrew P]

Glad to see you back Barnaby, I hope the IT issues get sorted for you.

[CME and Bottlewasher]

17 hours ago, Barnaby said:

Thanks CME spent some time running my Fowler all over the cleaned off track to prove all still electrically sound, yes it is.

Before I complete the ballasting I'll add the mechanical point levers to my chosen position.  They will be by push-pull flexi rods from my RC aircraft days, initially by small wooden knobs on the front panel but i may later on use some of the levers sets I have.

 

Cheers

All sounds very promising!

[Barnaby]

Yaaaawn, stretch, scratch who's that knocking on the door, why it's Mr Postie.

 

Oooh some Dapol goodies.

I renewed my Dapol Club membership and took the opportunity to purchase 2 Swansea coal wagons with 1 at special club rate in lieu of the Corvid cancelled club day.  Thanks Dapol.

Some rattle noise from both boxes but nothing serious just the link chain from one end on each wagon had got detached, 2secs to fix.

  

 

Still meandering around my hobby shed, more tidying up than building anything, but I am beginning to see the rabbit err layout so had a little shunt about with my Fowler to energise the diesel in my veins.

 

Off to B&Q now to purchase a new gas fire as existing one has recently gone phut and to repair it is nearly the cost of a new one.

 

Byz

Edited December 13, 2023 by Barnaby

[Barnaby]

Bummer just been notified that Dapol are to close their COLECTORS CLIUB outlet.  They are making some great closing offers plus a pro rata return on your membership payments made so thank you Dapol. 

NB you need to get your orders and requests in quickly by 1st Nov 2020 so not much time.

 

Of course the web site will still be fully up and running after this closure.

 

Thanks

[Barnaby]

Hello all.

I'm seriously considering changing my mechanical point movers for a switched layout panel any way here's my two-pence worth.

I am looking at changing my point control over to electrical point motors but which ones?

My checks have shown me this when comparing solenoid type to spinning motor type [Tortoise].

My reason for changing over is 1/ to make them easily replaceable on failure, 2/ remove the need to clamber under my boards as I'm not as young as I was 3/ and I quite fancy having a switch wired control panel as it is simples.  I have considered making the T's more of a plug in system using push fit choc block so they could be made up on the bench and fitted underneath and just plugged in but cost and my preference for the Point motors to be mounted on the top surface has ruled that idea out.

 

Upside:  Tortoise are very good but top surface point motors will suit me better.

Downside:  The T's spinning motor whirrs away and is there for a longer time when compared to the clack - clack of a solenoid type so both are noisy.

I'm hoping that I will just get used to any point noise operation after all I've never heard a point throw quietly, well not on the 7Valley anyway.  The T's are also just too big for me, on the other hand the point motors can easily be hidden on the top surface with debris, buildings etc, which I expect will also calm down their noise somewhat too.  I also have some noise cancellation ideas to try out too.

 

I'm about to experiment with some PL1's to see how reliable and how noisy they are.  I have read that they struggle to throw points in my scale which is 0 gauge but then others have said 16Vac make them work more reliably or use 12Vdc via a stonking CDU, similar to Gauge masters version.  Poor operation will decide which way I should go.

 

Andy P, he of SMS has said he will make a video of the surface mounted ones he has just fitted, thanks Andy. 

 

Best

[Simond]

Tortoises will never break your points, and if my experience is anything to go by, they’ll never need replacing either.  
 

I made mine up with a short length of 8-way flex (but individual wires would be just as good) to choccy-block screw connectors to make it easier to fit them under the board.

 

if you really don’t want or can’t have them underneath, then consider using wire-in-tube to connect them to the tie bar.  See my Porth Dinllaen thread for details - I did that for the catch point on the coal road.  I also did a number of points for my late mate, Ken, where I was able to bury the motors in an embankment.  The scenery would have to have been dug up to fix them if they’d failed but it didn’t happen!

 

they make a quiet whirr for between one and two seconds, when it stops, you know the point has been thrown.

 

I’d never go back to solenoids.  Horrid noisy aggressive things!

 

atb

Simon

[figworthy]

7 hours ago, Barnaby said:

Hello all.

I'm seriously considering changing my mechanical point movers for a switched layout panel any way here's my two-pence worth.

I am looking at changing my point control over to electrical point motors but which ones?

My checks have shown me this when comparing solenoid type to spinning motor type [Tortoise].

My reason for changing over is 1/ to make them easily replaceable on failure, 2/ remove the need to clamber under my boards as I'm not as young as I was 3/ and I quite fancy having a switch wired control panel as it is simples.  I have considered making the T's more of a plug in system using push fit choc block so they could be made up on the bench and fitted underneath and just plugged in but cost and my preference for the Point motors to be mounted on the top surface has ruled that idea out.

 

Upside:  Tortoise are very good but top surface point motors will suit me better.

Downside:  The T's spinning motor whirrs away and is there for a longer time when compared to the clack - clack of a solenoid type so both are noisy.

I'm hoping that I will just get used to any point noise operation after all I've never heard a point throw quietly, well not on the 7Valley anyway.  The T's are also just too big for me, on the other hand the point motors can easily be hidden on the top surface with debris, buildings etc, which I expect will also calm down their noise somewhat too.  I also have some noise cancellation ideas to try out too.

 

I'm about to experiment with some PL1's to see how reliable and how noisy they are.  I have read that they struggle to throw points in my scale which is 0 gauge but then others have said 16Vac make them work more reliably or use 12Vdc via a stonking CDU, similar to Gauge masters version.  Poor operation will decide which way I should go.

 

Andy P, he of SMS has said he will make a video of the surface mounted ones he has just fitted, thanks Andy. 

 

Best

 

If you want a motor, rather than a solenoid, and Tortoises (or Cobalts) are too big, have you looked at servos ?

 

Adrian

[Simond]

Servos are perfectly able to drive points, but there are reasons why they might not be a perfect answer.  See the recent posts here:

 

atb

Simon

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2020 by Simond

[Barnaby]

Yes Adrian I have wondered about servos as I have quite a few from my RC aircraft days so I could just connect the server arm to the bluepoint TOU already fitted.

 

Yes Simon I am already doing it that way but want to incorporate a switch track panel and having a switch on the track line seems like a good idea.

While looking for a little more info on point motors I found this in my Hornby mag June 2017.

 

They checked over 10 types with the Cobalt dcc version coming out as First Choice and the HAT-PM-01 Best Solenoid.   

 

 

The only down side for me is the HAT is somewhat bulkier than the PL11's but they are some £3 cheaper for each one.

Andy P has successfully used PL11'S on his SMS layout and that is good enough for me.

 

Best

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by Barnaby

[Izzy]

I’ve just built a micro-minimal 7mm and used hacked servos for the points and signal. They are run off a pack of 4x rechargeable AA’s. All that was needed besides the servos were a small DPDT on the servo mount - which serves the dual purpose of switching current direction and frog polarity, but also acts as the servo limit switch. A SPDT on a ‘panel’ changes direction in conjunction with the DPDT. Connection to the point tiebar can be whatever you want. I have used 0.9mm brass rod bent to give a bit of omega loop action but they could easily use the cantilever rod action of cobolts/tortoise etc 

 

The benefit of this simple home brew arrangement is that it’s cheap, has a small footprint, and keeps the power separate from my DCC system. I used some old spare SG90’s I had but any servo would be suitable. The switches came from Expo tools.

 

Perhaps you could amend the basic design principle to power the bluepoint units, I’m not sure, never having encountered them to date. 
 

Just a thought anyway.

 

Izzy

[raymw]

simple basic servo control

 

[Barnaby]

Yes thanks Izzy I have thought of that and it would be possible but I really do want to go surface mount to remove the need to go down under.

Thanks  to Ray I had been looking at the MERG system for servos bat same as my above answer.

Thanks very much for you ideas

 

I'm presently looking at a 6-pack of Colbalt SS surface mount motors.  They don't come cheap on initial price but there are some good prices which when I take of the price of replacement point motors helps to make them more attractive, we'll see.  They come complete with all the fittings, leads and fixtures so they might become my Christmas present.   Oh and each control PCB dives 2 motors, switches Frog polarity and will light some leds on your display panel so good value I think. 

  DIDDY TOO, THAT'S A 50 PENCE PEICE

 

Regards

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by Barnaby

[Andrew P]

21 minutes ago, Barnaby said:

Yes thanks Izzy I have thought of that and it would be possible but I really do want to go surface mount to remove the need to go down under.

Thanks  to Ray I had been looking at the MERG system for servos bat same as my above answer.

Thanks very much for you ideas

 

I'm presently looking at a 6-pack of Colbalt SS surface mount motors.  They don't come cheap on initial price but there are some good prices which when I take of the price of replacement point motors helps to make them more attractive, we'll see.  They come complete with all the fittings, leads and fixtures so they might become my Christmas present.   Oh and each control PCB dives 2 motors, switches Frog polarity and will light some leds on your display panel so good value I think. 

  DIDDY TOO, THAT'S A 50 PENCE PEICE

 

Regards

 

Now I like that Barnaby, what voltage do they run off, and what sort of switch do you use with them?

[Barnaby]

Hello Andy I still have to read all the details but here is the manual. 

It's a 4 Page manual, P2  has most of the info your asking for.

https://www.dccconcepts.com/manual/cobalt-ss/

 

They are Cobalt -ss surface point motors.

 

Best

Edited November 10, 2020 by Barnaby

[Barnaby]

Tiddle damn F*** Just missed the last one in stock but now first on list for their new  re-supply.  

 

I'm having a new 6-Pack.>>>   Yay it's on its way; snuggled down in Santa's Sleigh; It will be waiting for me to open it on Christmas day; just in time for me to have a PLAY.  

 

 

I'll update on this with a box opening ceremony when it arrives. 

 

Best 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Barnaby

[Barnaby]

I'm still enthused with excitement & expectation awaiting the arrival of my Cobalt-SS 6 pack.

However from reading on Google and other forums there does seem some negativity about them.

Some about the robustness of the motors and their ability to move the point work on bigger scales i.e. they should work on "0" & "G".

 

The manufacturer has obtained a better point motor and all recent kits should have them as supplied as well as the software has been updated.

 

From reading about some issues people have had it does seem that many are not following the full and precise install instructions, as those that have done, don't seem to have issues eg one person gave up and offered his to anyone who wanted them. 

Someone took them, installed them and they worked straight off.  Install them right they work right.

 

I'll await my delivery with some trepidation, but mainly excitement.   

 

 

Regards

Edited November 14, 2020 by Barnaby
grammar

[Barnaby]

Earlier today I re-read through rcf [Rob] Osney wharf on these forums Layout build. 

I still haven't started my ballasting but as it will be my next step I was interested to see that Rob had filled in between the tracks with cork.  As it happens I have some cork tiles knocking about in my shed so I've started the cut, fit & stick process while I await my Cobalt - SS point motor order.

This will have the effect of lightening the weight of the ballast required to cover the BB surface and also contain the track ballast between the rails.  The ballast weight was begining to concern me so the cork idea seems a great idea.

My initial choice of covering over the cork is to be a thin mix of washed and fine sieved garden soil containing a light mix of ballast interspersed with some patches of hard standing possibly Wills concrete sheets [plastic].  Thinks possibly 70%/30% in favour of the hard standing to soil but I need to try some trial mixes of the sand ballast first.

 

Regards

Edited November 12, 2020 by Barnaby

[sb67]

I'm interested to see how you get on with the ballasting, I like the idea of the cork in between the tracks. Have you seen any of work done by Gordon Gravett, his book on groundwork is well worth a read. To represent other areas he paints over an area and then sieves over anything from wood ash to chinchilla dust depending on the look he's after. I think Barry Norman uses the same methods with great results. 

Do the cork tiles come up just below the level of the sleepers? 

[Barnaby]

Thank you Steve.

I'd forgotten about GG's book I'll get it down from the model library shelf and have a read up, Barry's book too.  It was GG Ditchling Green layout that got me going in 7mm again and as always his level of detail it fantastic, good call.

My cork tiles are the same height as my Peco track so it will trap the ballast between the rails just nicely and create a top surface just right for what I want.  I should be able to blend/ soften the join up of the two areas quite easily with a sprinkle of both types of surface.  I'm not looking for a ruler edge but a more soft natural edge, a bit of stray ballast, sieved soil, tufts of grass etc.

 

Best

 

It is  something I'm quite looking forward to doing.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Barnaby
Added Google photo

[Barnaby]

Another one for my to do list is auto magnetic coupling/ uncoupling.

Seeing Giles work on this topic on this forum has given me some ideas I need to try out, now to get out my Neodymium magnets.

 

I see it's a typically Giles detailed working.  A beautiful engineered mechanism to solve an engineering problem. 

 

Sadly my effort will no doubt be some what cruder. 

Questions I need to answer/ trial -- How critical is the magnetic strength requirement -- do you need to have a magnet on each coupling or just on one end and a non ferrous plate on the other.  Then a like pole magnet under the board would repel the  same pole coupling magnet. 

Mnnnnn ideas.

1/  set up a basic not to scale magnet coupling using my neo's or use the Magclic scale ones I have to hand. 

2/  only have a magnet on one end with just a magnetic plate on the other.

3/  The tricky bit; like other systems I want to have a FIXED magnet in the track I may try an electro magnet so I have some control but I'm hoping that a passing wagon will stay coupled and only undo when I pause over it.

4/  as long as the buried magnet is the same pole they should repel hopefully not upwards but split the coupling.  I may need to angle the buried magnet but that's to be tried.

5/  rig up using not to scale neodymium magnets to prove my thinking  and have a play.

 

Good work Giles thank you, your giving me ideas to try.

 

Best

 

[Barnaby]

Following on after a small test using 1 x magnetic coupling and 1 x iron plate coupling I find that using a same pole magnet in the buried position I get a peeling effect between the couplings this peeling effect is increased if the buried magnet is to one side of the track centre line. 

Needs further investigation using actual couplings to make sure I'm understanding my result data correctly.

 

As Giles has pointed out on his forum posts making the couplings as I suggest will mean the wagons can only work 1-way about or they wont couple up but I can live with this 1-way coupling if the decoupling works.

 

Best

[Barnaby]

Hello got most of the cork stuck down just a small area to be completed.  Order of play to be: 

1/ ballast all the track between the cork.

2/ add ash to general selected areas.

3/ do some proving to the goods that arrived today from Hatton's, see following >>>.

 

A 6-pack has arrived

 

 

6 x SS point motors, 3 x dual control PCB's, xt leads, various fixing screws, various motor to tie-bar wire links.

 

 

 

6 x point stepper motors, they are dinky. They are plug and play 2 controlled by each single control board [separately]. 

 

I need to have a play to see how the motors all work before I disconnect my manual control system and then wire up my points.  First thing is to read up the very comprehensive User Manual.

So that's this afternoons reading taken care of. 

 

Best

 

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Barnaby
grammar & photo crop

[CME and Bottlewasher]

On 04/12/2020 at 12:42, Barnaby said:

Hello got most of the cork stuck down just a small area to be completed.  Order of play to be: 

1/ ballast all the track between the cork.

2/ add ash to general selected areas.

3/ do some proving to the goods that arrived today from Hatton's, see following >>>.

 A 6-pack has arrived

 

 6 x SS point motors, 3 x dual control PCB's, xt leads, various fixing screws, various motor to tie-bar wire links.

 

 6 x point stepper motors, they are dinky. They are plug and play 2 controlled by each control board.

 

I need to have a play to see how the motors all work before I disconnect my manual control system and then wire up my points.  First thing is to read up the very comprehensive User Manual.

So that's this afternoons reading taken care of. 

 

Very cool!

 

Are those akin to Minx Microdrives - I bought a few of those, never got around to fitting them (one day), they seem like a decent bit of kit too. Sadly no longer in production.