coal yards in the 1970's

[PenrithBeacon]

The end of most coal yards was the insistence by BR for customers to adopt air brake stock for Speedlink tripping by the early 80's. A concession on scrap metal and coal lasted until 84. Most customers had to provide their own stock or walk away. Most did the latter. To blame the miners is frankly rather absurd and panders (even after all this time) to the Thatcherite propaganda of the time.

Agree with the last paragraph, with the caveat that the miners did walk into an ambush, and their behaviour did make them an easy target.

 

The sentence 'Most customers had to provide their own stock or walk away' implies that traders would have to provide their own wagons. Am I reading this correctly? I can remember seeing dual fitted AB/VB coal wagons in the late 80s/early 90s.

 

Regards

[The Stationmaster]

I think BR's situation was very straightforward.  It needed, and had tried, to reduce operating costs for wagonload traffic and the coal concentration schemes had made a huge difference but for a variety of reasons they didn't eradicate the continuing presence of relatively small scale coal traders.  But then came the progression to a fully fitted railway and renewal of much of the freight wagon fleet in an effort to further improve efficiency, reduce costs, and try to get back into markets which had been lost and it then became inevitable that most, if not all, of the remaining small scale domestic coal sidings would go.

 

True a fairly limited number of unfitted wagons remained in coal traffic use but they were extremely restricted in their sphere of operation and were banned from most of the network.  When we, somewhat reluctantly, agreed in the early 1990s to give up the Class 9 classification for Eurostar use I think there were only 3 flows left using unfitted wagons - all on very specific routes and, to be honest, none with a long term future if we were brutally honest about them.

[Fat Controller]

Agree with the last paragraph, with the caveat that the miners did walk into an ambush, and their behaviour did make them an easy target.

 

The sentence 'Most customers had to provide their own stock or walk away' implies that traders would have to provide their own wagons. Am I reading this correctly? I can remember seeing dual fitted AB/VB coal wagons in the late 80s/early 90s.

 

Regards

Traders would have had to source their own wagons, either by purchase or lease. Given the use such wagons were likely to have got (Mike or someone else may have exact figures, but I recollect the figure of one loaded trip per month for most 16-tonners), it's unlikely anyone would pay the considerable sums involved.

There were a few air-piped (not dual-fitted) 21t coal wagons (MDW) that survived into the 1990s, but these were used on residual scrap flows to Teesside, and not for coal traffic (though some were loaded at the former coal depot at Blaydon). By then, such domestic coal traffic that remained was either conveyed by HEA hoppers to Coal Concentration Depots, or by container- in both cases, it is quite likely that, in some instances, the coal might be forwarded by road to former rail-served coal merchants.

[The Stationmaster]

Traders would have had to source their own wagons, either by purchase or lease. Given the use such wagons were likely to have got (Mike or someone else may have exact figures, but I recollect the figure of one loaded trip per month for most 16-tonners), it's unlikely anyone would pay the considerable sums involved.

There were a few air-piped (not dual-fitted) 21t coal wagons (MDW) that survived into the 1990s, but these were used on residual scrap flows to Teesside, and not for coal traffic (though some were loaded at the former coal depot at Blaydon). By then, such domestic coal traffic that remained was either conveyed by HEA hoppers to Coal Concentration Depots, or by container- in both cases, it is quite likely that, in some instances, the coal might be forwarded by road to former rail-served coal merchants.

Coal merchants operating on railway owned property were required to obtain their supplies either directly by rail (if that was possible) or by road from the appropriate coal concentration depot.  Their leases did not allow them to obtain coal in any other way without permission and if they obtained coal direct from a pit or wherever by road without prior permission and they were found out they were usually required to pay both the relevant rail mileage charge (to 'their' concentration depot) plus a 'fine' for breaking their lease agreement.  

 

This also applied on closed lines where the land was still railway operational property thus in the 1970s there were, for example, coal merchants based in former S&DJtR yards who were required to get their coal from the nearest railhead.  We used to catch one chap fairly frequently getting in land sale coal and no doubt he got away with more than we ever found out as he didn't seem too upset having pay way over the odds for coal he brought from a colliery by road.

[philwaglab]

I wasn't blaming the miners (at the time our house served as a collection point for monies and food for a miners' support group) ,rather that the combination of a year-long absence of domestically-produced coal, and BR's insistence on a purely air-braked freight network, signed the death-warrant on most coal depots. If the miners' strike hadn't happened then the demise of the small coal depot might have taken a year or two longer, but it would have happened.

 

Quite right.Air braked hoppers were being used before the miners strike of 84.It was planned to phase out the old coal depots from 1980 onwards.

[peak experience]

i think higher buxton may have received coal

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/56316-higher-buxton-goods-depot-buxton-south/

[doilum]

By the time of the strike most pits were already reorganised to to send their entire production to the power stations by mgr.

House coal was supplied from an ever dwindling number of collieries which were blessed with a particularly good house coal seam. Once these too went, that was it.

I do recall a couple of 16t wagons in Dalmally in the mid 90s.

By the time of the strike most pits were already reorganised to to send their entire production to the power stations by mgr.

House coal was supplied from an ever dwindling number of collieries which were blessed with a particularly good house coal seam. Once these too went, that was it.

I do recall a couple of 16t wagons in Dalmally in the mid 90s.

[montyburns56]

This scene looks like it could be from the 70s, but it's actually from Whitland station in 1982!

 

 

[The Johnster]

Hendy Gwyn Ar Daf, the old white house on the river Taf, the ancient court of Hywel Dda, King of Dyfed, a friend and ally of Alfred the Great of Wessex.  They went on pilgrimage to Rome together.

 

The 120 is worthy of note, being a 3 car set but having at least the DMS from a Central Wales 2 car set, with the spotlight fitted for the unfenced sections of the CW.  These were bought at a Lucas car headlight dealer in Swansea, and intended for use on rally cars.  I was guard on a Central Wales 2 car set forming the 23.05 Bristol-Cardiff one evening in the 70s, and the driver switched the spotlight on in the Severn Tunnel because he said he'd never seen it properly.  Neither had I, so I sat in the cab with him for a look see.  The amount of water coming in was alarming!  He switched it off as we came around the curve on the Welsh side in case there was any oncoming; this thing was pretty powerful and not focussed the same as a modern high intensity light, which is really to identify the approaching object as a train rather than for the driver to see where he's going.  You could see where you were going with this thing right enough!

 

I'm sure ChrisF will be along in a minute to clarify; I should recall C602 in the 70s but it's too long ago now.

[johnofwessex]

4 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Hendy Gwyn Ar Daf, the old white house on the river Taf, the ancient court of Hywel Dda, King of Dyfed, a friend and ally of Alfred the Great of Wessex.  They went on pilgrimage to Rome together.

 

The 120 is worthy of note, being a 3 car set but having at least the DMS from a Central Wales 2 car set, with the spotlight fitted for the unfenced sections of the CW.  These were bought at a Lucas car headlight dealer in Swansea, and intended for use on rally cars.  I was guard on a Central Wales 2 car set forming the 23.05 Bristol-Cardiff one evening in the 70s, and the driver switched the spotlight on in the Severn Tunnel because he said he'd never seen it properly.  Neither had I, so I sat in the cab with him for a look see.  The amount of water coming in was alarming!  He switched it off as we came around the curve on the Welsh side in case there was any oncoming; this thing was pretty powerful and not focussed the same as a modern high intensity light, which is really to identify the approaching object as a train rather than for the driver to see where he's going.  You could see where you were going with this thing right enough!

 

I'm sure ChrisF will be along in a minute to clarify; I should recall C602 in the 70s but it's too long ago now.

 

I seem to remember an internal temprature in those units that made Hell seem chilly

[Covkid]

48 minutes ago, johnofwessex said:

 

I seem to remember an internal temperature in those units that made Hell seem chilly

 

Particularly in the little 2nd class area of the Composite.