Dummy point motor placement.

[McGomez]

I have to agree about the little details but I'm a recent convert. I read an article by Cyril Freezer years ago that said if something can't be clearly seen from average viewing distance why bother with it? I used that as a mantra for years but as I've only got a 6' x 18" scenic section at the moment, I've now changed my mind. Point motors have been purchased! Lineside troughing and ground signals may be on the cards too. At this rate, I might scratchbuild something... God forbid! Good luck with the layout. Pete.

Pete.

I got some troughing at the same time as the dummy motors.

I might cut them out of styrene in future.

[Pete 75C]

Yeah, I think you pretty much only see the lids when ballasted, so I'll probably score some styrene strip. If you want to go the extra mile, leave some lids off at an angle and have some thin wires visible within the trough. Pete.

 

Edit: I played that little video clip over and over again until I remembered this PC doesn't have any speakers! Time to phone Age Concern.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Pete 75C

[Clive Mortimore]

Sliding bridge double track Keadby.

 

DSC02651.jpg

 

Photo possibly taken on 30th November 2003 at 15:40 and nine seconds...

 

DSC02729.jpg

Hi Richard

 

I had a look at some more photos of the sliding bridge, wow what a beast.

[Clive Mortimore]

Thanks once again for the replies gents.

 

Re the orange tube. I meant the tube but it does read as though I was referring to the cable so thanks Del.

Maybe the orange tubes of today are made of a type of plastic that is self cleaning?? I can´t remember them from my late 70s/early 80s youth thats for sure.

 

Re the innards, it certainly makes wiring a Tortoise look easy!

 

With your help I have now ballasted around my first point and added the motor. I extended the sleepers but I think I over did it a bit! There must be a prototype for it somewhere though!

I should have also cut the original sleepers back to the slots that are for the installation of the PECO underboard motors. I´ll have to fill them as they stand out like a sore thumb.

 

I also glued some old offcuts of LED legs (always knew they´d come in handy!) to the underside of the motor housing to give a representation of the blade actuators.

 

14-04-13 Dummy Point motor (1) - copia.JPG

 

14-04-13 Dummy Point motor (2) - copia.JPG

 

This is my one and only catch point. Hopefully it can be treated in exactly the same way as a normal point?

Hi Andy

 

It is details like point machines or in olden days point rodding that make a layout look more realistic, providing they are done correctly. I wish more people who are unsure would post questions like yours so that those in the know can help them get things right.

[LNERGE]

Hi Richard

 

I had a look at some more photos of the sliding bridge, wow what a beast.

Twas mine for nearly a year as installation manager..

[TheSignalEngineer]

Yeah, I think you pretty much only see the lids when ballasted, so I'll probably score some styrene strip. If you want to go the extra mile, leave some lids off at an angle and have some thin wires visible within the trough. Pete.

 

Trough sides should be at least 1" above finished ground level, otherwise they get full of muck when you take the lids off. Also don't forget that particularly from about 1970ish they had knock-outs at the top of each side for tail cables to come out.

[phil-b259]

Trough sides should be at least 1" above finished ground level, otherwise they get full of muck when you take the lids off. Also don't forget that particularly from about 1970ish they had knock-outs at the top of each side for tail cables to come out.

 

On installation they may be, but after several years of ground subsidence / embankment slips  / excess ballast falling away from the high ballast shoulders we have these days / berried under the contents of a wet bed the p-way dug out years ago / cutting sides slipping / installation of too many cables / use as a superhighway by the local rabbit population / etc. many troughing routes are nothing like that.

 

Its also worth noting that while technically they are an S&T asset we have neither the manpower, time or tolls / equipment to keep them in good shape these days.

Edited April 16, 2014 by phil-b259

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Signal Engineer and Phil

 

Form what you both say it makes sense to look at the prototype or photos of it to establish the state of the troughing for the chosen period of your model. Just as you would a locomotive you intend to model. 

[TheSignalEngineer]

Hi Signal Engineer and Phil

 

Form what you both say it makes sense to look at the prototype or photos of it to establish the state of the troughing for the chosen period of your model. Just as you would a locomotive you intend to model.

 

I will try to look some out later. Perhaps i will start a thread as a repository for pictures on linneside and on-track cabling when i get chance later on.

[The Stationmaster]

I will try to look some out later. Perhaps i will start a thread as a repository for pictures on linneside and on-track cabling when i get chance later on.

B*gger - even more scanning might be needed (but it's an excellent idea especially if dated to time of installation and identified to Company/Region etc).  

[Pete 75C]

A thread on lineside cabling, cabinets, motors etc would certainly be beneficial as a modelling reference... I'd start one myself if I had any original material!

[TheSignalEngineer]

New thread is up and running here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/84785-poles-wires-and-cables/

[McGomez]

Hi Andy

 

It is details like point machines or in olden days point rodding that make a layout look more realistic, providing they are done correctly. I wish more people who are unsure would post questions like yours so that those in the know can help them get things right.

Hi Clive.

I´ve recently been looking through some old magazines and BR Blue biased books to try and spot how point motors are actually positioned but the majority of installations do still seem to have been with point rodding during that era and as much as I like to see a well installed point rodding set-up on a layout, I took the easy route and went with the motors mainly due to lack of time.

 

 

I will try to look some out later. Perhaps i will start a thread as a repository for pictures on linneside and on-track cabling when i get chance later on.

Thanks for starting the new thread  Signal Engineer. I´m sure it will be a great resource. I´ll be following that topic but as per Lifeboatmans comment, I unfortunately won’t be able to add much information. All my photographic evidence is of locos from back in the early 80s. No lineside images.

 

 

Another question as to the cabling of point motors.

The cables were presumably routed into the nearest trough but what would the maximum distance be until those cables are terminated in a cabinet/relay room?

 

 

 

I also came across this type of point motor whilst reading through the Minsterley thread.

See thread 236 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/78216-minsterley-modern-image-ohle-layout/?p=1412202

Were these Hy-drive point motors a 1990s design?

 

Regards

Andy.

[TheSignalEngineer]

 

Thanks for starting the new thread  Signal Engineer. I´m sure it will be a great resource. I´ll be following that topic but as per Lifeboatmans comment, I unfortunately won’t be able to add much information. All my photographic evidence is of locos from back in the early 80s. No lineside images.

 

 

Another question as to the cabling of point motors.

The cables were presumably routed into the nearest trough but what would the maximum distance be until those cables are terminated in a cabinet/relay room?

 

 

 

I also came across this type of point motor whilst reading through the Minsterley thread.

See thread 236 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/78216-minsterley-modern-image-ohle-layout/?p=1412202

Were these Hy-drive point motors a 1990s design?

 

Regards

Andy.

1) Just look at what is around on the loco pictures, you might be surprised and find an interesting bit of infrastructure.

 

2) Distance depended on the type and voltage of the machine and the fashion at the time. Electric machines were originally fed from close by, up to about the length of a crossover away, although Westinghouse Style C worked by a hand generator would go over at half a mile or more on the pole route. In later years machine feeds tended to be grouped if possible at junctions with feeds up to about a quarter of a mile, but it is a trade off between fewer locations and more expensive cable due to increased volt drop.

 

3) I will have a closer look later at those pictures as there are several varieties, some almost unique.

[ess1uk]

An interesting read.

 

[wandering blue]

On 19/05/2020 at 07:51, ess1uk said:

An interesting read.

 

 

Indeed it was.

 

I’ve waded through the original trail and all the spin-off links and unless I’ve missed it, no one answers the OPs 3rd question?

 

Presumably locating point motors between pairs of running lines is avoided for safety reasons, unless perhaps there is very restricted clearance on the outside?  

 

WB 

[Pete 75C]

29 minutes ago, wandering blue said:

 

I’ve waded through the original trail and all the spin-off links and unless I’ve missed it, no one answers the OPs 3rd question?

 

Presumably locating point motors between pairs of running lines is avoided for safety reasons, unless perhaps there is very restricted clearance on the outside? 

 

Might be one of those "prototype for everything" moments, but I've never seen photographic evidence of a point motor inbetween running lines when there's no reason it couldn't be cess-side.

I'm building a short 4ft plank in the late 80s/early 90s era atm, and there's a station release crossover. One of the point motors is between the running lines, simply because there's nowhere else for it to go. That scenario is a bit different, being within station limits.

[jeff mcghie]

On 16/04/2014 at 00:50, phil-b259 said:

Its also worth noting that while technically they are an S&T asset we have neither the manpower, time or tolls / equipment to keep them in good shape these days.

 

Since nowadays the 'T' stands for tired testing, they are a telecoms asset even though full of signalling cables and the telecoms cable is often the green FTN cable running outwith the trough!

 

I keep getting reminded of this the our Signalling chief everytime I'm asking for money to upgrade said troughing while renewing the S&C and the existing route is full to bursting. 

 

 

[TheSignalEngineer]

On 01/06/2020 at 07:48, wandering blue said:

I’ve waded through the original trail and all the spin-off links and unless I’ve missed it, no one answers the OPs 3rd question?

Probably indirectly in the bottom of my first comment where I said something like it is best put in the widest interval if it can't go in the cess