M&SWJR wagons

[Mikkel]

Just thought I'd post the finished item here. Once again thanks for all the help and info.

 

 

[corneliuslundie]

I haven't looked at them but the HMRS web site shows four wagon photos and three wagon drawings in the Society's collections. Worth a look by anyone else intending to build wagons for this company, though they may well be ones which others have already referenced.

 

As far as I know the drawings from Birmingham library are still available. I got some Rhymney Railway ones a few years ago, very good service.

[2996 Victor]

On 05/06/2014 at 05:42, Mikkel said:

Just thought I'd post the finished item here. Once again thanks for all the help and info.

 

 

 

Hi Mikkel,

Bit late to this particular thread, but I'm only just making a return to turn-of-the-century standard gauge interests, mainly GWR but also M&SWJ and S&DJ.

Just wanted to say that this is a superb piece of model-making, and may well be the basis of a similar wagon in my fleet.

May I ask, do you always build your wagons with rigid underframes?

I'm also most impressed with your red GWR wagons......

All the best,

Mark

[Mikkel]

Hi Mark, many thanks. Yes this is completely rigid and low-tech. Seems to work OK - but then the track formations on my small layouts are very simple.

 

GWR, M&SWJ and S&DJ sounds like an excellent combo, I look forward to seeing more of that 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2019 by Mikkel

[corneliuslundie]

Happened to pop back to this thread and read my comment about Birmingham.

Alas one now has to visit and copy the drawings oneself. The postal service is no more because of staff cuts.

However, The HMRS also has many if not all of the Met Camm drawings and those of its predecessors, though not all yet catalogued and/or scanned.

Jonathan

[2996 Victor]

3 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Hi Mark, many thanks. Yes this is completely rigid and low-tech. Seems to work OK - but then the track formations on my small layouts are very simple.

 

GWR, M&SWJ and S&DJ sounds like an excellent combo, I look forward to seeing more of that 

 

 

 

Hi Mikkel,

 

many thanks!

 

Years and years ago, I used to build kits straight from the box and be more than happy with the results, rigid underframes, warts and all! With increasing knowledge of the errors in those kits and in r-t-r came increasing dissatisfaction, and the need to amend or correct - I've always been keen to "get it right". There were also many exponents of sprung and compensated underframes writing in the modelling press whose mantra seemed to be "if it's not got suspension, it'll fall over!" So I invested in a multitude of compensation units, etched brass brake gear, axlebox/spring units etc etc, but all that eventually lead to was a form of modelling paralysis. With hindsight, one wonders if the "suspension boom" was more a reflection of the proponents' skills at building a square underframe and laying level track..... 

 

But seriously, it is just a hobby (ducks for cover!), and striking the right balance must be the key. If you'll forgive me for saying so, finding someone of your model-making skills who sticks with rigid underframed goods stock is a huge encouragement. I've still got most of the detail parts, so having almost finished a major house move and with a more pragmatic approach, I shall be back building very soon!

 

I'm very much looking forward to seeing more of your work, too 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

[wagonman]

While I agree that springing/compensation is not necessary in 00 or the coarser variations of 0 Gauge, it is pretty much essential in S4 and S7 no matter how good your track laying. Springing, if done properly, does give a better 'ride' regardless of wheel/track standards.

 

 

Edited July 16, 2019 by wagonman

[burgundy]

Rather a lot of years ago, Woodham Wagon Works used to produce a kit for a Swindon, Marlborough and Andover Railway open wagon. Seen here, centre right, at Cardinal's Wharf.  

Best wishes

Eric  

Edited July 16, 2019 by burgundy

[2996 Victor]

2 hours ago, wagonman said:

While I agree that springing/compensation is not necessary in 00 or the coarser variations of 0 Gauge, it is pretty much essential in S4 and S7 no matter how good your track laying. Springing, if done properly, does give a better 'ride' regardless of wheel/track standards.

 

 

 

Many thanks for this - I'm thinking/planning on going EM, so would you say the same applies? I'd appreciate your thoughts.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[Miss Prism]

Mark - the improvement in ride quality given by springing applies irrespective of the distance between the rails.

 

[Edwardian]

2 hours ago, burgundy said:

Rather a lot of years ago, Woodham Wagon Works used to produce a kit for a Swindon, Marlborough and Andover Railway open wagon. Seen here, centre right, at Cardinal's Wharf.  

Best wishes

Eric  

 

An impressive collection.  Do you recall who made the LSW one? 

[burgundy]

5 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

An impressive collection.  Do you recall who made the LSW one? 

I think all the wagons in that photo are from Woodham Wagon Works. Before production ceased, WWW had a rather ecumenical period, which resulted in the SW open, an early SER van, an Eastern and Midland open, a North Staffs 2 plank merchandise wagon, a Spalding and Bourne 4 plank merchandise wagon, a couple of Great Eastern opens, as well as some more common or garden dumb buffered PO wagons. Sadly, a standard gauge Bristol and Exeter wagon never happened.

Best wishes

Eric   

[wagonman]

 

As part of my research for "The Privatre Owner Wagons of Wiltshire" coming from Lightmoor Press sometime in the not too distant future, I discovered that Wilmer's wagon number 75 was likely acquired secondhand sometime in the mid 1920s and therefore does not belong on a pre-group layout – nor indeed on this topic. Apologies!

 

The other three are bona fide pre-group though...

 

 

 

 

[Compound2632]

20 hours ago, burgundy said:

an early SER van, an Eastern and Midland open,

 

Cripes! Anyone got one lurking in a bottom draw that they're never going to build?

[Miss Prism]

Who were Woodham Wagon Works?

 

[Nick Holliday]

1 hour ago, Miss Prism said:

Who were Woodham Wagon Works?

 

That was Burgundy being very modest!

[burgundy]

On ‎17‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 16:34, Compound2632 said:

 

Cripes! Anyone got one lurking in a bottom draw that they're never going to build?

First, an apology to Mikkel for hi-jacking his thread. However, in the light of some of the comments above, I dug out some "late period" Woodham Wagons which may be of interest. If anyone has any of these in their "unbuilt kit mountain", they might raise a bit of interest on e bay - but I would not give up the day job in anticipation.

LSWR 4 plank, Swindon, Marlborough and Andover (predecessor of the M&SWJR) and Eastern and Midlands (predecessor of the M&GNR)

PO lime wagon and coal wagon  with real, working dumb buffers

Great Eastern opens

Knotty merchandise wagon, Spalding and Bourne (or possibly early Midland) open and SER van

Message to self. Must try to do better with the hand lettering.

I hope that these are of interest.

Best wishes 

Eric

 

[Mikkel]

Delightful! I never could resist a round-ended wagon.

[Compound2632]

Some Woodham Wagon Works kits are still available - but not, I think, any of the above. I am currently working on* a Brighton Open A and Open D, available from Chris Cox's 5&9 Models and a couple of Stephenson Clarke wagons (also with real working dumb buffers), from Roxey Mouldings. I'd referenced Eric in my build description for the latter, without at that time having made the connection with Burgundy. 

 

*That is, I have them part built and in the queue for further attention... 

[Edwardian]

Stephen, I was about to add that some of the Woodham wagons seem to be produced by Chris.  I recently purchased a number of wagons from Chris for (i) Norfolk Minerals Railway and (ii) the W. Norfolk's dumb-buffered coal wagons. 

 

The point to note is that Chris's printed list, sent with the wagons, appears to be more up to date than the website. Of course, I cannot find it now I need to refer to it (!), but in production is a GNR open, which I also purchased, and among those announced is a GER wagon.  My memory is shot, so I cannot remember whether E&M and LSW wagons were mentioned. 

 

Chris is a pleasure to deal with and a highly recommended supplier. 

 

Thanks to Burgundy for the pictures.  They are  joy to behold and an inspiration, and also illustrate some of what Chris might be re-introducing.  I can only say that it is a Good Thing to have more pre-Grouping wagon kits available for types built 1850s-1880s.  I would encourage parishioners to beat a path to Chris Cox's door - Link 

 

EDIT, I might add that both GER round-ended opens are on my list of things to scratch build, so, if and when Chris does produce one or other of the Woodham kits, there will be a loud cheer in West Norfolk. 

Edited July 20, 2019 by Edwardian

[Compound2632]

Yes, Chris was very helpful when I contacted him about bits to improve my Smallbrook Brighton cattle wagon. I don't think he sent me the list you mention with the Brighton wagons I bought - will double check.

[Edwardian]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Yes, Chris was very helpful when I contacted him about bits to improve my Smallbrook Brighton cattle wagon. I don't think he sent me the list you mention with the Brighton wagons I bought - will double check.

 

If I find it, I'll scan for you and anyone else interested!

 

 

[2996 Victor]

Just to revive this tread again, I'm wondering whether there are any decent kits available for the LSWR 10-ton 5-plank opens with rounded ends, eg Southern Railway Diagram 1310, that could be converted into the M&SWJR wagons numbered 279-298 and 359-398. Mike Barnsley in M&SWJR Vol.3 says that these M&SWJR wagons were based on the contemporary L&SWR design, and comparing the drawings with those in Southern Wagons Vol.1 by Bixley et al, shows them to be extremely similar.

 

Best regards,

 

Mark

[Compound2632]

The D1310 type of LSWR open, or its antecedents, is just the LSWR wagon I'd like for my projected Huntley & Palmers cameo. I had a look on the South Western Circle's website but it's not especially modeller-friendly. Many line society websites include lists of kits etc. - usually leading to frustration at the "once-was-but-long-gone" kit listings! - but not this one. 

 

My old D&S catalogue (Spring 2005) lists D1309, describing it as 4-plank - but there#s no tick in the box, which seems to indicate it wasn't in fact produced. 

[2996 Victor]

The South Western Circle certainly seems to be orientated towards the reader/researcher - their sales tab makes no mention of models. It seems like a massive hole in the market - one that a manufacturer like Cambrian Model Rail would be well-placed to fill. I've also left a suggestion on the Mousa Models wish-list!