darren01 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 HI I was asked by a group that where holding an open day would i bring my layout along to support there open day, I agreed to bring it along. I told the chap who was putting on the event that i could not do both days and would only be able to do the Saturday and not the Sunday, as i had prior commitment on the Sunday. I would have like the layout back home on Saturday, so i could pack it up myself, But he was instant that he wanted it for two and the layout would be well looked after, and i reluctantly agreed to this ( What a fool i am) I went down on Sunday after the event and found out that a lot of the layout had been damaged, tree's broken and snapped off , roof of the signal box knocked off, one of the building in the yard knocked off the layout and broken, One of the yard lamps bent beyond repair, Station fencing smashed and flattened on part of the platform, a couple of model cars that where at the front of the layout where missing (Nicked by the look of it ) and some of the figures on the layout have gone missing as well!. The Chap who had put on the event when i spoke to him about the damage done just shrugged it off and said that he had trouble getting anyone to stay with the layout all day!. To add injury to insult he could not get the layout back to me until later in the week, and when he did turn up with it, it looked like it had been thrown in the back of the van, for when i unpacked it i found more damaged had been done,some Wiring on the back of the layout had also been ripped out!. I phoned him up and told him that i was not happy with what had happened to the layout and wanted some form of compensation for all the repairs and replacement of the stuff that was missing, Only to be told that the group did not have any money to replace what was missing and there was nothing he could do. The thing is that none of them are into Model railways and to them it's just a toy and have no comprehension of the work , time and money that go's into building a layout. Next time they hold there open day they will not get my layout, they can go whistle in the wind, now i have a lot of work to do to get it back to the way it was and also have to spend out and replace what was damaged and gone missing. Sorry if this is a bit of a rant, but i have learnt a lessons from this, don't lend my layout ever again, unless i am with it all the time!,The layout that got damaged is Torrington. Sorry Mods did not know where to put this. Darren Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Hi Darren, I'm really sorry to hear this. The organisers should have arranged exhibition insurance and it looks like a claim should be made against the policy. I would suggest drawing up a letter which itemises all of the damage and a photograph of each section of damage. Using the same itemised list it would be useful to show a cost for replacement parts/materials and estimate the amount of labour time to rectify each issue and put a cost against that (either your hourly work rate or that of a professional modeller) The letter should be sent, recorded delivery, to the organiser of the event making a total claim; the ball will then be in their court to respond. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted April 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 21, 2014 As one who found Torrington to be a most inspiring layout, this is horrid news, Darren. I hope Andy Y's advice gets you something back. I'm afraid that "it's just a toy train" is an attitude that will always be out there. Sad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted April 21, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 21, 2014 Hi Darren, I'm really sorry to hear this. The organisers should have arranged exhibition insurance and it looks like a claim should be made against the policy. I would suggest drawing up a letter which itemises all of the damage and a photograph of each section of damage. Using the same itemised list it would be useful to show a cost for replacement parts and estimate the amount of labour time to rectify each issue and put a cost against that (either your hourly work rate or that of a professional modeller) The letter should be sent, recorded delivery, to the organiser of the event making a total claim; the ball will then be in their court to respond. If you do not have a suitable reply to what Andy has suggested I would suggest making a claim through the Small Claims Court. As it was an event open to the general public they are legally required to have insurance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldgunner Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Wow, what a pratt! I would do as Andy says, nice formalised letter should make them listen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbishop Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I'm taking Höchstädt to a church exhibition next month. I've confirmed the church will provide insurance cover for third party events and for deliberate damage, but I will bear he risk of accidental damage myself. But a few conditions! I'm responsible for transport, set up and break down. I've got an experienced operating team, who won't allow the visitors to "play trains". Don't expect problems. Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I'm really sorry to hear that - I hadn't realised Torrington was yours and like Ian, I found it an inspiration. Everything about the guy's attitude is wrong and you mustn't shrug it off. Make it quite clear that you will take it further. I won't go as far as to say you shouldn't do someone a favour, but it must make you wonder why you bothered. Good luck and please keep us posted, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgman Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Sorry to read about Torrington being abused by unappreciative so called visitors to the event. Some years ago I modelled a local thatched cottage which was then seen and requested for my local bank to display in an insurance promotion for their branch. No problem I said, so long as you buy a case to display it in and protect it, or, let me make one and you pay for the time and materials. Second option taken by the bank and the cottage sat happily in the branch for 3 months. Lesson being if I ever leave anything with others I insist it's kept covered and also insured. This was learnt from my schooldays when a similar issue to the one which you sadly encountered happen to a layout I displayed. I only get burnt fingers once never again. I hope the layout gets back to its former glory and I would certainly follow up with organisers, they need to learn their lesson, whether it be a layout or other display. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I suppose the lesson here is don't trust others with your valuables, you would have thought that fellow railway modellers would take a little more care of somebody elses property and show at least a little understanding of all the time and money invested into a layout. Unfortunately this may be symptomatic of the modern society where property can be damaged as it doesn't really matter as it's somebody elses. There is not much advice I can offer now, aside from write everything down, photograph the damage NOW, and retain these photographs along with before pictures. The best way of dealing with this initially would be to write to him as suggested (everything needs to go recorded delivery), with photographs detailing the damage and the amount it will cost to repair (initially leave out a bill for your time) and politely asking them to stump up or make an offer within a reasonable time (say 28 days). Once this time has elapsed send them a formal invoice detailing the damages again but this time including the costs for your time (let's say £10 per hour as a decent rate), give them 14 days to pay it. If you still get no response, file a claim with the small claims court, usually court papers turning up is enough to spur them into action. If you get no response then go ahead with the claim, but realistically court papers tend to get the required response fairly quickly. You will be expected to prove you've made every reasonable effort, hence the sending of multiple letters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Have you got "before" photo's to go with the "after" ones? That will help to show the damage. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Darren Really sorry to hear this. You also have the published articles as evidence.I really depends on who the organisation was and how you how feel about them how far you wish to take it. Do you only have one contact or was there a committee - who may be jointly and severally liable if, perchance, there was no insurance taken out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted April 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 21, 2014 So sorry to hear that Darren Its a risk we all take when we show our pride and joy - and showing outside a formal model rail exhibition unfortunately does mean that you are more vulnerable as organisers are far less likely to perceive the issues Having said that we have taken Abbotswood to several non show events - Great Malvern 150, Toddington Diesel Gala and 85A open day twice without problems - but I do remember taking a club layout when I was at school to an Open Day at Bulmers Hereford and some little kid ripped up the timber framed viaduct. And I had a run in at Toddington when despite my asking nicely to desist a child in mothers arms continued to try to swat passing trains - so when on the third occasion my stentorian voice boomed out from the other end of the layout and said kiddie burst in to tears father came rushing over wanting to know why I would dare do such a terrible thing. And that is the problem - a total lack of appreciation. If there is anything we might learn from your misfortune perhaps its only to leave our pride an joy in the care of someone we know implicitly and trust - but even then accidents will happen. Hope you can at least recover the damages and am sure following Andy's advice represents your best path. Please don't be put off by this - there are scumbags out there but most folks are not, we all need to take care to minimise risks I guess Kind regards Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim V Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 The cost you should claim for is what a "professional" would charge. Get it assessed by a professional model maker, and that is the bill you send, as it's an insurance job. Your own time is valuable, don't undercharge for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 21, 2014 Darren, Terribly sorry to hear about this and it must have been an awful knock for you. I've nothing much to add to the above advice but I understand that Small Claims Court fees are in the process of being increased so it would be worth checking that out before you go that way (and I hope you don't have to). The other thing that I think you need to do - but only after your claim has been met - is to name & shame the cowboy organisation responsible for the damage to your layout if only on here to warn others but ideally in the local 'paper as well. But after they or their insurers (if they had any?) have coughed up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Whilst I have ticked "agree" with Tim V's post, it may be an idea to ask a few people on here to give an informed opinion as to the value of the damage. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 21, 2014 Whilst I have ticked "agree" with Tim V's post, it may be an idea to ask a few people on here to give an informed opinion as to the value of the damage. Ed There are several folk on the forum who are professional modelmakers - i.e they charge for the work they do or things they sell and no doubt some of them might be prepared on a confidential basis to give Darren an idea of how they value their time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim V Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 And maybe quote for the repairs.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peach james Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I've been known to be the one with the booming voice... We have signs for the lego "Please do not touch" (That means YOU) and (Parents included). Usually, we find it is adults who have the least respect for the amount of work that went into it- after all, it's just a kids toy right? We as a club do one show which is unsupervised. In spite of 4' high plexi-glass, it suffered quite extreme damage again this year. The only thoughts we had were that a parent took there "darling" child and plopped them over the plexi, who then inflicted quite a bit of damage. Pratts. As regards your layout, It's not like a single item grew feet, or the layout was in a van accident with a steamroller- those are accidents. Lack of care is NOT an accident. James Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted April 21, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 21, 2014 Sorry to hear of your damage and the attitude of those left responsible for your layout. I too hope they are brought to book via a claim one way or another. Such things are always a risk but so far as I am aware most of us don't leave our models in the public gaze without the owner or a known and trusted representative present. Overnight might be different but I'm assuming the damage wasn't caused by a wandering cat in the small hours. Even if it was the organisers are probably liable. I too have had damage done and items removed - and almost right under my own nose as well. People, vehicles and small scenic items were not where they were placed at the end of a running day. One or two turned up later including a windsurfer up a tree (!!) but most have gone never to be seen again and a degree of scenic repair work was also required. The person I believe to have been responsible has not been back but has not accepted liability though similar events have not occurred since. I don't doubt others among us have endured similar frustrations as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted April 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 21, 2014 Sorry to hear about your problem. My good nature for such events evaporated after a piece of railwayana which had personal connections went missing. I have a fair idea who had it, but couldn't prove anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren01 Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 Hi Thank you for all the support about this i will take some photos of the damage done and the cost of repairing and replacing the items that have gone missing, Then talk to the group who put the day on and see what they say about it. Thanks for all the good advice. Darren Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Hi Thank you for all the support about this i will take some photos of the damage done and the cost of repairing and replacing the items that have gone missing, Then talk to the group who put the day on and see what they say about it. Thanks for all the good advice. Darren Don't talk to them, write to them, if you need to take it further you will need the records. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren01 Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 Don't talk to them, write to them, if you need to take it further you will need the records. Hi Boris You are right and i will do what you have said, Thank you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meil Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Hi Darren, I'm really sorry to hear this. The organisers should have arranged exhibition insurance and it looks like a claim should be made against the policy. Can I make it clear that exhibition insurance is for the benifit of the organisers against claims of negligence made against them. It does NOT cover damage to layouts. Layout insurance is for the layout owner to arrange. It may be that the exhibition organisers have arranged insurance to cover damage to layouts but it is not usual. The exhibitions that I am involved with do not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 If what Darren says about the organisers is correct, they sound pretty negligent to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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