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darren01

Layout Damaged at open day!

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One thing that occurs to me that is the "Value for insurance purposes" box that appears on exhibition booking forms simply makes us assume the layout is insured.  It is quite definitely not confirmation that it actually is.

 

I would always want confirmation from the organisers that the layout and stock is covered against theft & damage up to a specified amount as well as any third party/public liability issue. It might be boring, it might lead to me being known as a "fussy b*gg*r" but if something goes wrong - I have something in writing and it's worth it for peace of mind. 

 

 

As far as "bad behaviour" is concerned, whether at exhibitions or in life generally, I've seen it from all age groups and 'socio-economic classes'. Bringing up children to be 'good' members of society is the most difficult job of all and the most important. Even the best of them occasionally need to be told "No" and if it's done fairly and firmly, it helps set out the boundaries of acceptable behaviour. If this isn't done, by the time they get to adulthood, anyone who says "No" to them or fails to indulge their (often capricious) whims is seen as "the enemy" and subjected to abuse, vitriol and spite. I'm afraid I've seen this all too often at close quarters and sometimes been the victim of it. 

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I have spoken to several exhibitors in the past who have had items near the front stolen, Certain people clearly have no hesitation in nabbing stuff in they can.

Damaged by careless or over eager audience, is a nightmare.  I have on occasion been leaning carefully in to an exhibit for a photograph (after asking permission) when someone has knocked me....and been very lucky myself to not damage someones property - which would horrify me. 

 

But clearly the people who handled your layout, had no regard for the love, the skill, the time, and indeed money that had been invested in, They do not even appear to have even understood that it is important to keep it horizontal...which probably explains buildings, how trees got damaged.... beggars disbelief. Often as previously mentioned many people think of it as a toy......For some poor modellers even their spouses have this attitude.

 

I am very sad to hear how your generosity was rewarded. And think it a good thing you shared this horrible experience. I am horrified that the person who encouraged you to leave it had so little interest in what had occurred. And you are right to NEVER EVER let them benefit from your work again. 

 

I am also glad, that the support here, has allowed you some comfort, and you are able to look towards using it as an opportunity to update some work that you might otherwise have left for some time before renewing. It is a sad fact of life, that one needs to be very careful of ones belonging...because in general other people...do not give belongs that are not their own as high a regard as they might to their own. And in a throw away society a lot of people don't even look after their own property very well, so taking care to not damage other peoples property is beyond them.

 

I don't remember seeing your work, but am just off to go find it. I hope in time you get past this, but never forget this, and take care. The damage and theft it suffered is to my mind appalling. No one there seems to have cared enough to protect it. Appalling.

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We have enough problems with a fellow members of our club, one is really maddening because he just giggles when confronted. with the evidence or sctually causing the damage

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As a member of today's 'yoof', I think, much like TomJ, that some of the comments have resorted to stereotyping of all kids is unfair, the vast majority of are very well behaved and seem generally interested at exhibitions. Like everything else in this world, it's always the negative side of things that are broadcast in the media; how often do we hear positive stories in proportion to negative ones. It's the same with stories about the younger generation, it's always about some a-holes who vandalised something or other, when the vast majority of my generation wouldn't think about it. Unfortunately, there would appear to be more doing those sort of behaviours, but as DavidH correctly pointed out, throughout history people have lambasted the younger generation.  

 

Rant Over

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On a brighter note, I remember the excellent service when I took a layout of mine to be exhibited at the South Downs Light Railway some years ago. The exhibition was rather peculiar in that it was held over two weekends and the intervening Wednesday! Unfortunately I was only available to exhibit on the two Saturdays. No problem, said the organiser - he could find other layouts to fill up the space on the other days. Not only that, but as I was travelling from Reading by train, he offered to look after the layout in his garage for the week!

 

I am pleased to say he took good care of it, though it was like having a child stay away from home from the first time, and I was glad to have it back! 

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Entirely off-topic of course, but this obsession about declining manners (as you all well know!) is not new ...

 

"... I find by sad Experience how the Towns and Streets are filled with lewd wicked Children, and many Children as they have played about the Streets have been heard to curse and swear and call one another Nick-names, and it would grieve ones Heart to hear what bawdy and filthy Communications proceeds from the Mouths of such..."[/size]

(Robert Russel, 1695)[/size]

 

"[/size]...a fearful multitude of untutored savages... [boys] with dogs at their heels and other evidence of dissolute habits...[girls who] drive coal-carts, ride astride upon horses, drink, swear, fight, smoke, whistle, and care for nobody...the morals of children are tenfold worse than formerly."[/size]

(Earl of Shaftesbury, 1843)[/size]

 

"Our sires' age was worse than our grandsires'. We, their sons, are more [/size]worthless than they; so in our turn we shall give the world a progeny yet more [/size]corrupt."[/size]

(Horace, 20 BC)

and of course the worlds population has increased god knows how many fold since those years so bad manners to use your own words logically must have increased in proportion as a minimum.

 

people are entitled to suggest that things are no worse now than they were 50, 100, 300 years ago but using the extreme end of the anti social scale can those same people still argue that gun and knife crime is no worse as well? 35-40 years ago when i was a kid their were very few kids that would cuss their parents or spit in the street or even be of the mindset that it was fun or vengeful to scratch somebodies car. does that follow today? i have to disagree with folk who believe respect or lack of is no worse than in previous generations. all the evidence is there in papers tv news media internet forums etc. i dont see why some poeple are intent on wearing blinkers and ear plugs to falling levels of respect and behaviour probably not helped by the advent of the computer and the mobile phone and the new found anonimity that allows.

Edited by ThaneofFife

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We all feel for Darren. On a positive note I've exhibited Coney Hill 7 times with 1 to go and no problems so far. But one unexpected and really rewarding experience has been the way that several young people,from tinies to teens, with mild to more severe learning disabilities and related challenges such as autism, have engaged with the layout and enjoyed it. Some of them had a bit of conversation with me, their accompanying family members appreciated it & other exhibitors also noticed this. Makes it all worthwhile.

 

Dava

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At a non railway event, I'm afraid that your model railway becomes a "train set" and if children are present they may play with the "train set" .

 

Also some ignorant organisers may think that when the event is over, that the train set is not needed any more so no care is taken when removing it from the venue.

 

I am sorry to hear of the OP's experience, but lets all learn a sobering lesson. Its just not worth the risk to bring a model railway to such events no matter how nicely you are asked or what promises are made.

 

Colin

 

 

Edited for silly typos

Edited by Colin_McLeod

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Wasn't Torrington for sale a while ago? If that was the case, you should know how much they have to pay you on the, "You break it, you pay for it," principle.

 

Geoff Endacott

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I suppose it was my fault for taking out Höchstädt in a part scenicked state to a charity show, with the front of the layout being mainly Hydrofibre. But the kids were great with their chins on the layout, listening to the locos and fascinated when they "talked". The problem was with the elder generation, regarding Höchstädt as an opportunity to take the weight off their feet. A 15 stone man leaning on a layout with both arms is going to cause damage. When told to "depart", he wandered off, tried to do the same with Batcombe and knocked all the stock off the track.

 

I've now pretty well completed the scenery, but will it dissuade the dedicated leaner? Time will tell.

 

Bill

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Reminds me of an Open Day at my own club where I'd taken my 009 layout (same one I took to Pulborough), set up on 2 x 6' tables, with about 4' clear space at one end. At lunchtime some of the "large scale" club members spied this extra space and sat round it to have lunch. Unfortunately one of the members was in the habit of thumping the table every time he spoke,and each time he did all my stock jumped off the track!

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Can you please list the exhibitions that you are involved with so that we know to avoid any invitations?

 

Andi

No reply yet?

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This story is just horrific and a wake up call to us all.    The lessons we must all learn are very clear.   I think that although there can be problems wherever you exhibit, the risk is likely to be less at a model rialway exhibition than at an event that is outside the hobby when the layout has only been brought in as a novelty display.

 

I cannot believe the apparent offhand attitude of the organiser and fully expect that he will not have any insurance (Even though he is required by law to do so) and you will probably end up in the small claims court.  I think you should seek legal advice and you maybe able to get half an hour for free with a solicitor.  This person or the organisation cannot be allowed to get away with this.  

 

I think that the organisors of non specialist model railway events have no concept at all of how much time and hard work goes into exhibits that we offer to show and this is not limited to small organisations.  I have had 'run-ins' with National Trust officials when exhibiting a classic car and them wanting me to park on what was very clearly very wet soft glass and the car would have clearly sunk in up to its axles.  When I asked what towing/recovery help they had if I got stuck I was met with a blank look.  I simply left immediately and if there are problems like this when exhibiting anything precious you have no alternative but to pack up and leave straightaway.  I of course do realise that this was not an option in Darren's case.

 

Finally perhaps you should name and shame the idiot organisation who did this to the layout so the rest of us can boycott them should any-one get invited to have their layouts destroyed for free by them. 

 

This makes me really angry and I have the deepest sympathy with Darren and my heart goes out to him.

 

Best Wishes, Stephen.

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I believe Citizens Advice  may be able to advise for free and maybe even recommend a Solicitor that would give a few minutes for free too.

If you get nowhere with anything like this go to the local paper.......they may like to take up your story?

P

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 so bad manners to use your own words 

 

all the evidence is there in papers tv news media internet forums etc. 

First, I said "declining manners", you really ought to quote me properly if you say you're using my words :-)

 

I'd agree that indeed a lot of evidence of bad behaviour is there in the media, but argue that we hear very little of the much more common, but less newsworthy, good behaviour. The papers love the bad stories, and the ever-present internet and media brings more of it to us every day. Knife crime (say) is not any worse, you just hear about it more often (unless you are a school kid in London, and that is worrying). The more we tell each other about the traumas, and wallow in them, the more we become convinced there's a child molester behind every door or an axe murderer down the street (e.g.).

 

I would take anything on an internet forum with a pinch of salt - people exaggerate, repeat stories, only tell one side ...

 

And your personal perspective about the world going to hell in a handcart depends on where you were brought up. Where I live, in the 50s, there would have been pubs all along the harbour, many of which you would not dare go into if you weren't a sailor, and at least one that needed a huge bloke behind the bar to chuck people out when fights broke out. Today there is not a single pub that is known to be violent and not one uses a bouncer even at weekends. So when was it worse? Since I moved here I think there have been four murders in 8 years, all indoors between people who were known to each other.

 

When you say that where you were, people would not spit in the street or cuss ... well, the historical quotes I found show that perhaps you were just lucky about where you lived, rather than this being any evidence of declining standards suddenly happening.

Edited by DavidH

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I think that because "most" of the Society we inhabit isnt as rough as it was in general in previous times is exactly why the occurences of general low-level anti-social behaviour have sky rocketed.....

There seems to be an unwillingness / incapability for society to police itself

Got it in one Mickey. Sadly it seems to be something that 'just happens' . Nowt sa queer as folk they naws.

P

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I suspect society does not self-police itself because people know (or at least fear) that if they say anything they will get a smack - or worse.

Similarly people don't rebuke little Johnny because they know there's a high probability that it will bring little Johnny's dad to the door, and that generally speaking it won't be to say, 'Thank you for your contribution towards bringing my child up correctly.'

 

Young fit males who are well able to handle themselves, and with a social conscience, may choose to speak out nevertheless. But they are a minority of the population.

Edited by Poggy1165
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... and if you do respond, apprehending someone trying to nick something from the layout, then restrain them until the police arrive, you suddenly find yourself in trouble for somehow "infringing their rights" or using too much force or whatever other rubbish they decide to use to protect the poor criminal who is probably misunderstood and from a deprived background etc etc.

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First, I said "declining manners", you really ought to quote me properly if you say you're using my words :-)

 

I'd agree that indeed a lot of evidence of bad behaviour is there in the media, but argue that we hear very little of the much more common, but less newsworthy, good behaviour. The papers love the bad stories, and the ever-present internet and media brings more of it to us every day. Knife crime (say) is not any worse, you just hear about it more often (unless you are a school kid in London, and that is worrying). The more we tell each other about the traumas, and wallow in them, the more we become convinced there's a child molester behind every door or an axe murderer down the street (e.g.).

 

I would take anything on an internet forum with a pinch of salt - people exaggerate, repeat stories, only tell one side ...

 

And your personal perspective about the world going to hell in a handcart depends on where you were brought up. Where I live, in the 50s, there would have been pubs all along the harbour, many of which you would not dare go into if you weren't a sailor, and at least one that needed a huge bloke behind the bar to chuck people out when fights broke out. Today there is not a single pub that is known to be violent and not one uses a bouncer even at weekends. So when was it worse? Since I moved here I think there have been four murders in 8 years, all indoors between people who were known to each other.

 

When you say that where you were, people would not spit in the street or cuss ... well, the historical quotes I found show that perhaps you were just lucky about where you lived, rather than this being any evidence of declining standards suddenly happening.

Alas we can quote examples until we're blue in the face, thus for example in the town where I live we had over 30 pubs (for a population of 10,000) when i was in my teens. Today only a couple survive as what I would call real pubs and the rest have either closed or become sort of wine bar or eatery type thing.  In my youth none of them had or needed bouncers - nowadays several of them need such folk (or 'doormen') every Friday and Saturday - and we are just a quiet Thameside town in one of the more affluent parts of Britain.

 

In reality what we are talking about is attitude, care, behaviour, and simple politeness and those things seem to have become far less common in many strata of our society - for all sorts of reasons.  Basically Darren's layout suffered damage because people didn't care, were badly behaved or stupid, and were not polite.  We have always had oiks in our society but in the past they tended to be kept under control by the decent folk - nowadays one often gets the impression that the roles have changed largely, it seems, because simple disciplines and behavioural 'boundaries' have been allowed to decline or have purposely not been defined as people grow up in the way they once were for the majority.

 

But that was probably the cause and our debating that is doing little to help Darren - let him take the advice already proffered in this thread while we cross our fingers for him getting a good result.

 

Edit to correct typo

Edited by The Stationmaster

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I suspect society does not self-police itself because people know (or at least fear) that if they say anything they will get a smack - or worse.

Similar people don't rebuke little Johnny because they know there's a high probability that it will bring little Johnny's dad to the door, and that generally speaking it won't be to say, 'Thank you for your contribution towards bringing my child up correctly.'

 

Young fit males who are well able to handle themselves, and with a social conscience, may choose to speak out nevertheless. But they are a minority of the population.

Got it in two Poggy......

I'm not  young or fit but I am male and I wouldn't even ask a primary age kid to stop whatever, in case of ..........

in fact I feel ashamed that I might not even approach a young person seemingly in distress or in obvious trouble. Sad.

One thing that crosses my mind is that young people are now brought up to be super confident and that is brilliant as I was brought up to be meek. However, some don't quite get the right message or get the message right and become arrogant and selfish instead. This applies to all sections of society.

P

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and of course the worlds population has increased god knows how many fold since those years so bad manners to use your own words logically must have increased in proportion as a minimum.

 

 

If you take the first proposition as a truth, then by definition good manners must have increased in the same ratio also - 10% of a small population increased proportionally to a large population will still be 10% of the population...

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.......Only to be told that the group did not have any money to replace what was missing and there was nothing he could do.

 

 

No Money??  That's what they say. Did the event not make any money? Have they any non-financial assets?

If you follow all the above advice they may well discover that they "find" some money.  Good luck anyway.

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As I said previously - joint and several liability of the organisers - should you wish to pursue this course of action.

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As I said previously - joint and several liability of the organisers - should you wish to pursue this course of action.

 

And that is why I insist on proper insurance for the exhibitions I organise. The person I am insuring is me.

 

Geoff Endacott

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