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Freightliner (ex passenger stock) brakevans in the 1960s


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5 hours ago, russ p said:

 

I think the bottles were inside the caboose,  I wonder if the underfloor bottle rule was for passenger carrying vehicles. 

I cant see any boxes on the BS but can't think of any other way of heating the van 

No the bottles were in a recess moulded as part of the caboose body with a vented door covering it, so effectively outside, so no gas could leak into the caboose. 

The highlighted area of the below crop shows what I think is a box that isn't normally on a MK1 BS, it is about the right size to be a gas bottle.

Photo editing_Cloud20191027.jpg

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1 minute ago, markw said:

No the bottles were in a recess moulded as part of the caboose body with a vented door covering it, so effectively outside, so no gas could leak into the caboose. 

The highlighted area of the below crop shows what I think is a box that isn't normally on a MK1 BS, it is about the right size to be a gas bottle.

Photo editing_Cloud20191027.jpg

Also that pic clearly shows the coach is in rail grey all be it terribly filthy, thanks for posting @Gibbo675 i have been looking all over for a rail grey brake pic

Cheers

James

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Gas bottles carried beneath the vehicle then.  There's a comment earlier in the thread about the LMS BGs being used because they had stoves; the LMS BGs never had stoves, but the 6 wheel LMS BZ vans did, as did some Southern BYs.  There were LNER Thompson BZs as well but I do not know if any had stoves.  These vehicles and the Queen Mary brake vans were all allowed to run at speeds of up to 75mph; the standard 20ton goods brake and the remaining LMS 20ton type in the late 60s were allowed to run at 60mph, too slow for Freightliner work.

 

The Freightliner brake vans I remember seeing were all mk1 non-gangwayed 57' BS coaches.  To the best of my knowledge the passenger compartments were locked out of use and never used for anything.  I never saw any of the silly little cabins in service.  By the time I started on the railway guards were riding on the locos for all normal fully fitted trains unless there was a specific requirement for a brake van.  My only regular job of this sort was the Canton-Calvert empty brick wagons, which we worked as far as Swindon for relief.  This train picked up traffic at Lawrence Hill, including a brake van which was used for the Lawrence Hill-Swindon part of the journey and to destination.  The train propelled along a 5 mile section of 'long siding' on the GC trackbed to Calvert and the van was required for this purpose.  

 

I also encountered brake vans on fully fitted trains when learning the road on the Vale of Glamorgan line, riding with Barry men on MGR trains to Abernant colliery.  This entailed running around the train at Jersey Marine and picking up a brake van at the rear of the train.  On arrival at the colliery, the train drew past a ground frame and set back into the loading plant controlled by the brake setter in the van as the loco was unsighted on a curve in thick woodland.  You had to stop the MGR hoppers 3 at a time to be loaded.  

 

Class 3, 4, and 5 trains with passenger brake vans such as parcels or empty stock were unheated, so the guard rode on the loco.  Empty dmus (and presumably emus) had the guard in the guard's van as heating was available to him there and he was in direct contact with the driver through the bell even on non-gangwayed stock.  

 

A brake van of any sort with a guard riding in it does not need to have automatic brakes unless it is a passenger carrying vehicle, and most goods brake vans used in fully fitted trains were 'piped only'; the guard could of course apply the automatic brake with the setter.

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14 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

For info, there is a photo taken in 1965 on page 12 of 'Freightliner Life and Times', showing an early Freightliner with a Stanier 20t van at the tail end.

But note it has side lamps, so is not running as a fully fitted train.

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7 minutes ago, markw said:

But note it has side lamps, so is not running as a fully fitted train.

Curious; is it possible that the loco is not air-braked, so that the train is effectively unbraked? I know that air-braked locos were relatively uncommon into the late 1960s, so perhaps the train loco had failed, and a non-airbraked one replaced it?

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On 28/01/2010 at 10:56, Guest Phil said:

Thats interesting. I thought the coaches were only fitted with a through pipe, setter and gauge. From the limited photo evidence I have seen, they were always marshalled next to the loco.

 

 

 

The coach may be marshalled next to the loco, or at any place in the train, and have up to 20 vehicles behind it provided the person who had signed the train preparation form had ensured that the brakes were full operational on the last two bogie.  It would be marshalled in the rear if there was an operational reason for that, such as having to set back into sidings with guard signalling the driver when the train is past the backing signal, and when it has cleared.

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