RMweb Gold big jim Posted November 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2014 The peppa pig layout was great fun, makes a change from bloody thomas!! Regards the old chestnut of the lighting when i arrived at 11 i thought 'ooh they have improved the lighting as it seemed quite bright but by the time i left at about 4 and it was getting darker outside i noticed the tungsten glow had intensified and was far more noticable than it was in the morning Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danemouth Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 My granddaughter loves Peppa Pig. I seen enough of the cartoons to think about turning her into bacon sandwiches :) Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGC Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I take it that you have experience of exhibiting and operating large layouts. It's not an easy task and a weekend can be a very tiring event. Rostering and managing a team to cope with the various pressures can be quite difficult . Mistakes happen. On large layouts it's easier to make them due to the distances involved and communication between two operators 30 feet apart in a large noisy hall isn't always easy. Jamie Yes, I have, in the past, been part of the exhibition circuit, although I'm not on the circuit as often as I'd like nowadays as the layout I go with only goes to exhibitions once or twice per year, but it used to be a lot more. I understand an exhibition is tiring, especially one like Warley, and towards the end of the day mistakes can happen, particularly setting the wrong road etc., and these sort of mistakes can be tolerated, especially by those who have been there and done it. The sort of mistake I was talking about, however, seemed to happen, I regret to say, through sheer stupidity, and shouldn't have been put down to tiredness as it was about mid-day on Saturday. The first operator wasn't listening to what the second operator was saying and chaos ensued. If I'd been involved with the layout, I would have been saying some pretty severe words, but as I was just a punter, I walked away quite saddened at what seemed a lack of understanding for the needs of professional standards at a premier event. Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascension Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 If you think Warley was busy you should have seen the Festive Gift Fair over in a much smaller hall. My other half dragged me there for a couple of hours to look at Christmas tat and you could barely move it was that crowded. No rucksacks, out of control mobility scooters, strange smells or cameras though! Regarding the comment about it being unacceptable for a few mishaps/lapses of concentration on the layouts, do lighten up a bit. I think it was on the Banbury layout I saw a very young chap having a go, it was great to see and if there had have been a mishap (there wasn't) I certainly wouldn't have walked off or commented about poor operations on a forum. I do agree though that several seemingly had very little going on so quickly moved on but there were enough layouts that there was for it not to be an issue. There hasn't been much comment on the layouts but I particularly enjoyed the N gauge presence this year despite modelling in another scale - Tanners Hill (not sure if on RmWeb), Banbury, Hinksey Yard and Waton were all great to see in the flesh and watch. Some layouts and stands I just couldn't get near, BCB for example but hopefully will get to see another time, likewise Rapido and the APT-E. This was my second time visiting the Warley show and both times I've seen someone kicking up a fuss because they wanted to buy the latest Bachmann club item but couldn't as they didn't want to join the club! Didn't get any bargains this year but extremely pleased with a pair of Arriva 143's from Realtrack. Will be going back next year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted November 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2014 'I think it was on the Banbury layout I saw a very young chap having a go, it was great to see and if there had have been a mishap (there wasn't)' That was Ivor (TomJ's little lad). He had two operating sessions that Saturday. Hes operated the layout a few times in the past and I dont recall him causing any mishaps so he was better than the rest of us that day!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted November 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2014 On operation I think people forget that apart from the owner they only occasionally get to operate and forget certain things especially after operating for an hour or more you can easily get distracted and forget one thing, most layouts don't have interlocking or reminder devices to stop you making mistakes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Yes, I have, in the past, been part of the exhibition circuit, although I'm not on the circuit as often as I'd like nowadays as the layout I go with only goes to exhibitions once or twice per year, but it used to be a lot more. I understand an exhibition is tiring, especially one like Warley, and towards the end of the day mistakes can happen, particularly setting the wrong road etc., and these sort of mistakes can be tolerated, especially by those who have been there and done it. The sort of mistake I was talking about, however, seemed to happen, I regret to say, through sheer stupidity, and shouldn't have been put down to tiredness as it was about mid-day on Saturday. The first operator wasn't listening to what the second operator was saying and chaos ensued. If I'd been involved with the layout, I would have been saying some pretty severe words, but as I was just a punter, I walked away quite saddened at what seemed a lack of understanding for the needs of professional standards at a premier event. Phil Just out of interest, did you personally thank or hear anybody else do the same for the performances of these professional amateurs....? I bet the bus drivers taking the hoards of punters back to the car parks got more appreciation.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I found myself agreeing with Phil (PGC)'s comment about layout operation and pressed the 'like' button accordingly - I then read the ensuing comments. I still think he makes some valid points which echo my own observations from years of attending shows. Now that I find myself exhibiting I am very mindful of such observations. Yes, we are amateurs and supposed to be doing this for enjoyment but at the same time the 'punters' have paid a fair admission price - do we not therefore owe it to them to at least try and be as professional as possible in what we are presenting, including the operation? So far as myself and my current project is concerned, I believe I have given due priority to both designing out certain exhibition faux pas in the construction of the layout and also to the training of operators. Yes, we all make mistakes (myself included) but there are things that can be done to at least reduce the likelihood of 'silly' mistakes when surrounded by the paying public. I actually think this subject is worthy of a thread of its own in M,M&M so, rather than gone on any further here, I would like to suggest transferring it there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Hughes Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I'm afraid to say that the most imaginitive layout I saw initially was the Peppa Pig layout. IMG_5875.JPG Should that not have been posted in the how realistic are your models photo thread? Nice to see a change from Thomas though and it looks to have been done to a high standard too. On operation I am more likely to walk away from the layout where trains run around relentlessly for no obvious purpose other than to keep something moving and to stay and admire the static modelling of a layout while I wait for the next prototypical train movement. I have seen far too many layouts built to the end of running trains and little regard to modelling a railway to retain even a vestige of interest in watching yet more out of the box rtr stock circle round among the Superquick buildings and the uniform painted grey roads with their over scale white lines and rows of shiny die-cast vehicles. Not that I am saying this description applies to any of the layouts at Warley but it does illustrate what I hope to see at a model railway exhibition and that is well executed layouts capable of holding attention even when nothing is running. I don't know if anyone recalls when Heckmodwyke Midland appeared at Manchester and was run to a prototypical timetable using actual time. People were waiting for fifteen minutes or more to see a train and even then it was likely to be a light engine movement .Many people waited for longer to see one as those at the back of the crowd were unable to see the trains until some of those who had, moved away. I was at a general modelling show recently and while the only things that moved were the railways and the Scalextric display the boats, planes, trucks and everything else were worthy of the time spent looking at them. The military dioramas in particular were to a really high standard and never seemed short of appreciative viewers. It is strange how the idea seems to have grown up that model railway exhibition is about seeing trains running. Maybe it is the way they are often referred to as "shows" with the implication it is a form of entertained rather than a display of the efforts of the modellers exhibiting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John of York61 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Should that not have been posted in the how realistic are your models photo thread? Nice to see a change from Thomas though and it looks to have been done to a high standard too. On operation I am more likely to walk away from the layout where trains run around relentlessly for no obvious purpose other than to keep something moving and to stay and admire the static modelling of a layout while I wait for the next prototypical train movement. I have seen far too many layouts built to the end of running trains and little regard to modelling a railway to retain even a vestige of interest in watching yet more out of the box rtr stock circle round among the Superquick buildings and the uniform painted grey roads with their over scale white lines and rows of shiny die-cast vehicles. Not that I am saying this description applies to any of the layouts at Warley but it does illustrate what I hope to see at a model railway exhibition and that is well executed layouts capable of holding attention even when nothing is running. I don't know if anyone recalls when Heckmodwyke Midland appeared at Manchester and was run to a prototypical timetable using actual time. People were waiting for fifteen minutes or more to see a train and even then it was likely to be a light engine movement .Many people waited for longer to see one as those at the back of the crowd were unable to see the trains until some of those who had, moved away. I was at a general modelling show recently and while the only things that moved were the railways and the Scalextric display the boats, planes, trucks and everything else were worthy of the time spent looking at them. The military dioramas in particular were to a really high standard and never seemed short of appreciative viewers. It is strange how the idea seems to have grown up that model railway exhibition is about seeing trains running. Maybe it is the way they are often referred to as "shows" with the implication it is a form of entertained rather than a display of the efforts of the modellers exhibiting. I agree; in choosing the prototype location to model, a level crossing was important, as was semaphore signalling (working). Operating from the front also allows a bit of chat with the paying public between trains. Something I saw on Peter Kirmond's "Blea Moor" and Gordon & Maggie Gravett's "Pempoul" a few years ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted November 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2014 Just out of interest, did you personally thank or hear anybody else do the same for the performances of these professional amateurs....?I did and did so myself whenever engaged in conversation on a stand. The couple of layouts I chatted to people on were very friendly and it's just common courtesy to thank them for info. I've also always found people polite when I've been out with a layout and it's the best thing about shows which is why these days I seem to spend so much time bumping into exhibition acquaintances and saying a quick hello as I did to Gary off Glenuig Maybe it's because I'm big and scary that they at least remember the face Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted November 25, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2014 On operation I am more likely to walk away from the layout where trains run around relentlessly for no obvious purpose other than to keep something moving and to stay and admire the static modelling of a layout while I wait for the next prototypical train movement. A classic statement proving the old adage. "You'll never please all of the people, all of the time" We've done the exhibition layout preferences to death - many times........... Back to the NEC show. It's much like Marmite, you either hate it or love it. In my case, I hate Marmite, but love the Warley NEC show..... Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
40F Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Did I say anything about a perfect layout? Please describe your perfect layout. Phil You certainly implied it. We are all human and therefore make mistakes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted November 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2014 Yes, I have, in the past, been part of the exhibition circuit, although I'm not on the circuit as often as I'd like nowadays as the layout I go with only goes to exhibitions once or twice per year, but it used to be a lot more. I understand an exhibition is tiring, especially one like Warley, and towards the end of the day mistakes can happen, particularly setting the wrong road etc., and these sort of mistakes can be tolerated, especially by those who have been there and done it. The sort of mistake I was talking about, however, seemed to happen, I regret to say, through sheer stupidity, and shouldn't have been put down to tiredness as it was about mid-day on Saturday. The first operator wasn't listening to what the second operator was saying and chaos ensued. If I'd been involved with the layout, I would have been saying some pretty severe words, but as I was just a punter, I walked away quite saddened at what seemed a lack of understanding for the needs of professional standards at a premier event. Phil If you could tell that mistakes were made because of "sheer stupidity" and were deserving of "severe words" I suspect that you don't exhibit very often because they don't tell you. I certainly wouldn't have you as part of my team with that attitude. Yes, we are amateurs and supposed to be doing this for enjoyment but at the same time the 'punters' have paid a fair admission price - do we not therefore owe it to them to at least try and be as professional as possible in what we are presenting, including the operation? I'm always very wary of this often argued viewpoint. Yes, I try to put on the best display I can, well lit, presented and reliable but I do this because I want to present my work in its best light not because I feel under any obligation because the punters have paid a few quid to get in. I and my fellow exhibitors have taken Friday off, given up my weekend, hauled my pride and joy halfway across the country in the back of a car and in the case of Warley operated from 9.15am to 6.00pm for nothing more than our out of pocket expenses. Don't get me wrong, we do it because we enjoy it but if somebody doesn't like my exhibit or the way I operate well go and look at something else. As for the show itself this year. We had a very enjoyable, if exhausting weekend. The host club looked after us very well as usual and whilst there was nothing that blew me away this year (working bicycles, upside down fiddle yards, clever tricks with perspective etc) there was still plenty of good things to look at. Clarendon, despite having seen it many times, is beautiful. The Gauge 3 St Ives and 5" gauge shunting planks were barmy and loads of fun. I also got to see Black Country Blues for the first time and was very impressed. Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonKing Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I attended Warley on Sunday this year with Mrs K, in previous years I have visited on Saturday and was surprised to see how much quieter it was. All future visits will be on a Sunday as the lack of significant crowds made it a much more pleasurable experience! As usual there was an abundance of good quality aspirational layouts, personal favourite being End of the Line which was absolutely fantastic (despite me being a staunch D&E modeller). Whilst I have seen some negative comment on here regarding "unprofessional" operation of layouts this does not personally bother me as I tend to treat the hobby as a distraction from "real life" issues (such as a stressful job, paying the mortgage etc) and guess that most of the layout operators are doing the same. I expect professionalism from my staff and contractors at work, not at a model railway show. With my Birthday being close to Christmas Mrs K uses Warley as an opportunity to do some shopping, Sunday was no exception with a couple of locos picked up at bargain prices and taken home ready to be wrapped. Unfortunately she did encounter one of her usual "Warley moments" this year when she was blatantly ignored by staff on one of the large manufacturers stands (last year it was being barged out of the way by an ignorant individual whose sole purpose in life appeared to be to get to the Bachmann stand), luckily no such issues were encountered with the smaller traders. It was noted that the number of female layout operators, whilst still a very small minority, appears to be increasing which can hopefully only be a good thing for the hobby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Mr.S.corn78 Posted November 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2014 Hi, Well I have to say a massive and I mean a massive thank you to all of the Warley club for the weekend. Not only for inviting me and putting on a great show, not that I got much chance to look around but also for Sunday and way they where ready to step in to help me out. Queensquare wrote: I and my fellow exhibitors have taken Friday off, given up my weekend, hauled my pride and joy halfway across the country in the back of a car and in the case of Warley operated from 9.15am to 6.00pm for nothing more than our out of pocket expenses. Don't get me wrong, we do it because we enjoy it..... And some of us ended up in hospital during the show as well. Yes for those who where staying at the NEC Premier inn I was the cause of the paramedic car and ambulance during the early hours of Sunday morning which was an adventure but I have to say the club and fellow exhibitors where prepared to step in and make sure that my demonstration kit was packed up and dispatched home. Luckily that wasn't needed as I was back at my table by lunch time taking a few painkillers to get me through to the end of the show. I lost count of the number of members of the Warley club and other exhibitors that came up to see if I was ok which I have to say touched me. So when you are complaining that layouts are not running right or the lighting is bad just remember that there are more important things and as Jerry has said and I will say again We do it because we enjoy it!!!! Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 If all the perfectionists built a layout to exhibit there would not be a hall big enough for them all ,also they should try running a show its hardwork (been there done it never again) you try getting layouts its a year of slog and whilst the current show is ongoing your thinking of the next or the one after.Warley club deserve a big pat on the back for having the courage to do it and long may they continue .I felt that this year the layout of stands was excellent you turned a corner and wow a terrific layout to look at followed by a trade stand,I liked Grimy Times the Royal Sct I bought is happily running on my layout and drew admiring comments from my other half so will buy another loco from you soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunmar Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Hi, Well I have to say a massive and I mean a massive thank you to all of the Warley club for the weekend. Not only for inviting me and putting on a great show, not that I got much chance to look around but also for Sunday and way they where ready to step in to help me out. And some of us ended up in hospital during the show as well. Yes for those who where staying at the NEC Premier inn I was the cause of the paramedic car and ambulance during the early hours of Sunday morning which was an adventure but I have to say the club and fellow exhibitors where prepared to step in and make sure that my demonstration kit was packed up and dispatched home. Luckily that wasn't needed as I was back at my table by lunch time taking a few painkillers to get me through to the end of the show. I lost count of the number of members of the Warley club and other exhibitors that came up to see if I was ok which I have to say touched me. So when you are complaining that layouts are not running right or the lighting is bad just remember that there are more important things and as Jerry has said and I will say again We do it because we enjoy it!!!! Cheers Simon Well said Simon - and glad to hear your ok ! Bill. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium rab Posted November 25, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2014 This thread seems to have generated more bad feeling than I've seen in all the (relatively short) time I've been following this forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted November 25, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2014 This thread seems to have generated more bad feeling than I've seen in all the (relatively short) time I've been following this forum. Nah- you haven't seen the EM wheels on P4 track thread then? And look back at the various Warley 2013/2012 etc threads and you'll see that most of it has previously been said. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Gilbert Posted November 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2014 I found myself agreeing with Phil (PGC)'s comment about layout operation and pressed the 'like' button accordingly - I then read the ensuing comments. I still think he makes some valid points which echo my own observations from years of attending shows. Now that I find myself exhibiting I am very mindful of such observations. Yes, we are amateurs and supposed to be doing this for enjoyment but at the same time the 'punters' have paid a fair admission price - do we not therefore owe it to them to at least try and be as professional as possible in what we are presenting, including the operation? So far as myself and my current project is concerned, I believe I have given due priority to both designing out certain exhibition faux pas in the construction of the layout and also to the training of operators. Yes, we all make mistakes (myself included) but there are things that can be done to at least reduce the likelihood of 'silly' mistakes when surrounded by the paying public. I actually think this subject is worthy of a thread of its own in M,M&M so, rather than gone on any further here, I would like to suggest transferring it there. Did it not work out at about 10-12p per visitor per layout - I think I got my money's worth last Saturday and as an exhibiting layout owner (not at Warley so far) who relies on mates who give up considerable time to set up, run and dismantle my train set I'm glad of any help even if errors creep in - we are amateurs enjoying a hobby who all spend our cash on the hobby - both sides of the barrier. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
40F Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Did I say anything about a perfect layout? Please describe your perfect layout. Phil Obviously one that has no mistakes ie perfect scenery, perfect operation, and perfect train formation, The name of the layout Elbissopmi but that may be a retrograde step Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammy Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Can't belive I missed Peppa Pig although I did find Shaun the Sheep Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Post of the month, absolutely priceless. For everything else theres Mastercard. Accepted for Model Railways, and also shower gel.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Pannier Tank Posted November 26, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 26, 2014 For everything else theres Mastercard. Accepted for Model Railways, and also shower gel.... Steady........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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