markw Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 The GWR train diagrams http://www.railalbum.co.uk/railway-wagons/military/ww2-warflat-train-gwr-1.htm Show alternate vac braked and vac piped warflats with a note underneath saying they are also air braked or piped. I assume this means half the warflats were vac braked and air piped and the other half were air braked and vac piped. In Russell 'Freight Wagons and Loads in service on GWR and BR WR' there is a photo of W160250 as a hand brake only Strip Coil in grey, still with side chains. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted September 11, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 11, 2019 I know nothing of them but Wild Boar Models do a ramp wagon that might be suitable for the diagram shewn above. http://www.wildboarmodels.co.uk/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted September 11, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 11, 2019 So thanks to everyone who has added their thoughts to this. Looking at the picture of the prototype for this model at Shildon it has a tank on it. But that doesnt make it a Warflat! Without jacks and in this livery its a FLAT WC. And based on the above comments it could be unbraked which ought to be grey - so no vac cylinders - or braked with brake cylinders but not air tanks - which ought to be bauxite. And fit the side chains if you want! Pictures are not common - and thanks to Paul Bartlett as usual - but rule 1 applies, its your model.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Firecracker Posted September 15, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 15, 2019 Following with interest, here’s one for you (taken from Robert Western’s ‘The Kendal & Windermere railway’) Those appear to still have their jacks on the ends. Now I suspect the date In the caption is wrong, my father knew the younger of the two blokes in civvies (LH, with hat) and apparently it’s the first shipment of Ferguson TE20 tractors to Kendal, so early 1950’s at the latest. Owain 6 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium cnw6847 Posted September 16, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) Fabulous photo, thank you for posting it. Edited September 16, 2019 by cnw6847 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 A very interesting photograph. I would love to know the background to that photo. Does seem a considerable number of new, expensive, tractors for a part of the world where agriculture has always been hard. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted September 16, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 16, 2019 Those tractors reminded me of this photo of Massey's going through Coventry enroute to Southampton. Not warflats [ what are they ? ]but useful anyway to see how they were loaded. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) A mixture of Lowfits https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brlowfit (all look to be wooden examples) The wagon at the front is a Carfit S https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/sropenmerch/eb80c048 or Conflat D https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/srconflat I need to look up the number and the 2nd wagon that can be seen in full appears to be an LMS one plank with fixed side and end (which would have made loading difficult) https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsopen/e255e7fae Paul The SR wagon is what was known on BR as a Carfit S, although the SR had originally called them Conflat A. Diag 1399 There is a drawing and photos inBixley, G, Blackburn, A. Chorley, R. & King, M. & Newton, J. (2002) An illustrated history of SR Wagons, Volume 4, Oxford Publishing Co. ISBN 86093 564 7. 160 pages Edited September 16, 2019 by hmrspaul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Firecracker Posted September 16, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 16, 2019 45 minutes ago, gwrrob said: Those tractors reminded me of this photo of Massey's going through Coventry enroute to Southampton. Not warflats [ what are they ? ]but useful anyway to see how they were loaded. Dunno about the wagons, but the tractors are Massey-Ferguson 35’s... Owain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Firecracker Posted September 16, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 16, 2019 59 minutes ago, hmrspaul said: A very interesting photograph. I would love to know the background to that photo. Does seem a considerable number of new, expensive, tractors for a part of the world where agriculture has always been hard. Paul Here’s what I know, it’s not complete. My father knew the younger of the two blokes in civvies, he and the gaffer next to him ran the local Ferguson agents at the time. Now my father also knew his son and at some stage my interest in railways came up in conversation. Son mentioned deliveries of tractors to Kendal by rail, the old man mentioned it to me, and I remembered seeing that photo and dug it out. On on the date, I reckon (speaking as someone who rebuilt three fergies) going by various details those are either the early TE-20 fitted with the continental petrol engine (made from 1946-48) or the TEA-20, fitted with the standard motor co.’s own petrol engine (made from 1947-56). My gut is they’re TEA-20’s. Now the old gaffer in the photo remembered it as the first big delivery to Kendal, (I reckon there’s at least 21 in that load). But at that time they supplied a large area (the only other dealers were Carlisle, Barrow and Preston iirc). Cumbria embraced the fergie, it was ideal for the smaller mixed farms and remained a Ferguson stronghold for a long time. It can’t be as the caption thinks, because the fergie went out of production in 1956. So my gut for a date is probably 1948. Owain 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Firecracker Posted September 17, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 17, 2019 And a bit like buses turning up, I’ve just found another! Taken from Michael Thorne’s ‘Ferguson TE20 in detail’. No idea of location, tractors are either TE-A’s or TE-D’s (covers hiding possible vaporiser shield round exhaust manifold which is the easy recognition feature and they’re not TE-F’s, there’s no toolbox on the wings - you rebuild three of these, you get to know the little details). Owain 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trains&armour Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 22 minutes ago, Firecracker said: And a bit like buses turning up, I’ve just found another! Taken from Michael Thorne’s ‘Ferguson TE20 in detail’. No idea of location, tractors are either TE-A’s or TE-D’s (covers hiding possible vaporiser shield round exhaust manifold which is the easy recognition feature and they’re not TE-F’s, there’s no toolbox on the wings - you rebuild three of these, you get to know the little details). Owain And a lonely Rectank mixed in with the warflats. (second wagon). Nice. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dube Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 for a WW2 layout I would need 38-725 WD 50T 'Warflat' Bogie Wagon WD Khaki Green With Cromwell MKIV Tank (I think the tank is a Centaur IV Close Support version with a 95 mm howitzer which saw service in small numbers), seems odd as the much more common cromwell tank with the 75mm gun is on the WD Bronze Green Wagon which is in post war livery ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 3 hours ago, dube said: for a WW2 layout I would need 38-725 WD 50T 'Warflat' Bogie Wagon WD Khaki Green With Cromwell MKIV Tank (I think the tank is a Centaur IV Close Support version with a 95 mm howitzer which saw service in small numbers), seems odd as the much more common cromwell tank with the 75mm gun is on the WD Bronze Green Wagon which is in post war livery ? I doubt that the overwhelming majority of potential purchasers would be any the wiser - or care ! Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
truffy Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, cctransuk said: I doubt that the overwhelming majority of potential purchasers would be any the wiser - or care ! Much the same could be said of pretty much all of the minutiae debated on RMWeb! Doesn't make it unimportant to some though. Edited September 18, 2019 by truffy 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 14 minutes ago, truffy said: Much the same could be said of pretty much all of the minutiae debated on RMWeb! Doesn't make it unimportant to some though. Quite so - I was simply making the point that the issue would not have figured high in Bachmann's priorities. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted September 18, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 18, 2019 That well known emporium in Sheffield has stock of the khaki liveried version and are processing orders. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 5 hours ago, dube said: for a WW2 layout I would need 38-725 WD 50T 'Warflat' Bogie Wagon WD Khaki Green With Cromwell MKIV Tank (I think the tank is a Centaur IV Close Support version with a 95 mm howitzer which saw service in small numbers), seems odd as the much more common cromwell tank with the 75mm gun is on the WD Bronze Green Wagon which is in post war livery ? Cromwell's and Centaurs are essentially the same tank with different motors. The Cromwell having the Merlin engine giving it plenty of guts. Centaurs were only used in combat by the Royal Marines (about 30 of them off the top of my head), they were all CS versions normally with the bow machine gun suppressed. But Cromwell CS versions existed as well. They were intended for HQ units though most were off loaded to the Czech brigade by June 1944. In fact the history of the Centaur, Cromwell and Comet group is quite complex as the three tanks are in essence the same tank. Comet being a Centaur with a Merlin engine upgrade, the Comet being a Cromwell with a new turret (admittedly the Comet used mostly the F type hull, rarely seen on a Cromwell, while the Cromwell used mostly a D type used just once on a Comet). For me, the differences are like comparing early Shermans to late Shermans which were not renamed despite the vast improvements. By 1944, most tanks in UK use had a proper High Explosive capacity so the need for CS was rather redundant. Post war, while normal Cromwell's were still being used by Recce units, I suspect the CS type was largely phased out/converted to other roles. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 2 hours ago, JSpencer said: Cromwell's and Centaurs are essentially the same tank with different motors. The Cromwell having the Merlin engine giving it plenty of guts. Centaurs were only used in combat by the Royal Marines (about 30 of them off the top of my head), they were all CS versions normally with the bow machine gun suppressed. But Cromwell CS versions existed as well. They were intended for HQ units though most were off loaded to the Czech brigade by June 1944. In fact the history of the Centaur, Cromwell and Comet group is quite complex as the three tanks are in essence the same tank. Comet being a Centaur with a Merlin engine upgrade, the Comet being a Cromwell with a new turret (admittedly the Comet used mostly the F type hull, rarely seen on a Cromwell, while the Cromwell used mostly a D type used just once on a Comet). For me, the differences are like comparing early Shermans to late Shermans which were not renamed despite the vast improvements. By 1944, most tanks in UK use had a proper High Explosive capacity so the need for CS was rather redundant. Post war, while normal Cromwell's were still being used by Recce units, I suspect the CS type was largely phased out/converted to other roles. Whether it's a reflection on their reliabilty, but many of the RM Centaurs seem to have only made it a little distance inland after the landings; there are several in the middle of roundabouts around Ouisterham as memorials. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Rails Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 All three versions are now in stock! The tanks have magnets under them which holds them nicely to the base of the wagon, quite a clever design I felt. 38-725 WD 50T 'WARFLAT' BOGIE WAGON WD KHAKI GREEN WITH CROMWELL MKIV TANK 38-726 WD 50T 'WARFLAT' BOGIE WAGON WD BRONZE GREEN WITH CROMWELL MKIV TANK 38-727 WD 50T 'WARFLAT' BOGIE WAGON BR GREY (EARLY) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
truffy Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Those tanks look like something out of a Christmas cracker. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Cane Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Are the end jacks an add on part? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 3 hours ago, truffy said: Those tanks look like something out of a Christmas cracker. I would wait to see them "in the flesh" as those photos are of the pre-production versions. Look much better here. http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/40246/38-725-Bachmann-Warflat-Bogie-Flat-Wagon-WD-Khaki Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 10 hours ago, Steamport Southport said: I would wait to see them "in the flesh" as those photos are of the pre-production versions. Look much better here. http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/40246/38-725-Bachmann-Warflat-Bogie-Flat-Wagon-WD-Khaki Jason Aren’t those merely catalogue shots? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted September 19, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 19, 2019 (edited) Ok this is 38-725 This is the accessory pack, jacks, pipes, chains and couplings. The jacks restrict bogie swing a bit on tighter radii and adding the safety chains would limit it more. underneath the tank is still slightly plasticky so a coat of matt varnish may help. You’ll need larger than 19” radii to run with the jacks in place. Edited September 20, 2019 by PaulRhB 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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