Minimum space London transport...

[diesel85tom]

Hi, I thought I would join the forum to share my progress on 2 minimum space london underground/transport layout' s/diorama's that I have been working on for about a year or so but progress has been slow. So maybe some inspiration and encouragement to get on with them can be found here.

 

Here's a photo to get my thread started. I shall upload some more over the next week.

 

 

 

Cheers Tom

[diesel85tom]

This photo is where the idea for (layout 1) has come from, this is hendon station on the northern line.

 

 

Here you can see my early 3 car set of underground stock that I bought second hand, i think it has a nice vintage look about it. As you can see the layout has a long way to go to complete the scene.

[Andy Reichert]

This photo is where the idea for (layout 1) has come from, this is hendon station on the northern line.

 

 

Here you can see my early 3 car set of underground stock that I bought second hand, i think it has a nice vintage look about it. As you can see the layout has a long way to go to complete the scene.

 

Love the idea and the layout. Track looks great. 

 

Not sure if I should be offended by the "vintage" description. I used to ride in those (standard stock?) trains on the Central Line (Snaresbrook-Leytonstone) as a boy.  If you know of any other "second-hand" models of those going, let me know.

 

Andy

[outcastjack]

That battery loco is great! is it a kit or scratch built?
I love the idea of micro layouts, and I can see why the picture inspired you, there is something great about deep tube stock in the countryside

[alfsboy]

Love the idea and the layout. Track looks great. 

 

Not sure if I should be offended by the "vintage" description. I used to ride in those (standard stock?) trains on the Central Line (Snaresbrook-Leytonstone) as a boy.  If you know of any other "second-hand" models of those going, let me know.

 

Andy

As did I courtesy of the Fairlop loop.I used to wonder about the steam trains I heard in the night when I lived at Barkingside(actually nearer  Fairlop stn ) .It turned out they were J15 's so i shall buy one when Hornby bring theirs out .

[Pacific231G]

That battery loco is great! is it a kit or scratch built?

I love the idea of micro layouts, and I can see why the picture inspired you, there is something great about deep tube stock in the countryside

When I first worked  in London I lived near Ealing Broadway but decided one day after a night shift to explore the "other" end of the Central Line so went to Ongar. It did seem surreal, rather like being  in one of Rowland Emett's cartoons,  to be on the tube on a single track surrounded by fields and combine harvesters. For some reason more odd because it was the actual Central Line than travelling on an ex. tube train on the Isle of Wight.

 

The dioramas are looking really good and full of atmosphere. How small are they?

[Andy Reichert]

When I first lived in London I was in Ealing but decided one day after a night shift to explore the "other" end of the Central Line so went to Ongar. It did seem surreal, rather like being  in one of Rowland Emett's cartoons,  to be on the tube on a single track surrounded by fields and combine harvesters. For some reason more odd because it was the actual Central Line than travelling on an ex. tube train on the Isle of Wight.

 

Hey kid! The Ongar shuttle was originally a cutie steam push-pull in my time.

 

Andy

[diesel85tom]

Sorry andy standard stock. I meant the actual model looks vintage probably made many years ago.

 

The battery loco is an all white metal kit powered by a very smooth running joef motor buit by my dad who is also building a larger underground layout.

 

The layout in the above photos is on 6ft by 1ft board/shelf and consists of an island platform and double crossover. I am undecided whether to make this tube only layout with tunnel portals or have a standard loading gauge for surface stock and steam etc.

 

Layout number 2 is a 4ft by 1.5ft split level depot scene but more on that later

 

Tom

[GoingUnderground]

The Epping Ongar line wasn't the only single track line on the Underground.

 

There's the Chesham branch of the Met if you want single track branch in the country.

 

The Mill Hill East branch of the Northern Line if you want a single track above ground Tube line.

 

Both are still operational, and the Chesham branch has probably the best through service it's ever had since the main line was extended to Amersham and beyond with the introduction of the S Stock.

 

Looking at closed or ex-Underground lines, the South Acton branch of the District line was also single track and had a single car running the shuttle service to/from Acton Town. Whilst the New Cross and New Cross Gate branches of the Metropolitan/East London line were both single track IIRC.

 

The Aldwych branch was built as twin tube tunnels, but for most of its life was operated as a shuttle with just one bore in use. I travelled on it regularly when I worked in Surrey Street.

 

If you want to use modellers licence, the Rickmansworth Church Street branch of the Watford DC lines was single track 4 rail, and could have taken Bakerloo line trains, as could the Croxley branch. The Croxley branch should be taking underground trains in 2017, this time hosting the rerouted Metropolitan Line.

 

If you want rural Metropolitan single track, there's always the Quainton Road to Brill line. Never electrified, but you could run Met A Class locos. Use modellers' licence again and electrify it for use the the Heljan MetroVic or T Stock, or even double track it and and "extend" it through to Oxford as the Met once wanted to do.

[PhilJ W]

If you want any more info on the London Underground I would suggest signing up to the 'District Dave' forum.

[diesel85tom]

Another photo of layout 1, this is the crossover end taken from what will be the back scene side. Again plenty of work to be done to complete the scene.

 

 

Tom

[Andy Reichert]

The Epping Ongar line wasn't the only single track line on the Underground.

 

There's the Chesham branch of the Met if you want single track branch in the country.

 

The Mill Hill East branch of the Northern Line if you want a single track above ground Tube line.

 

Both are still operational, and the Chesham branch has probably the best through service it's ever had since the main line was extended to Amersham and beyond with the introduction of the S Stock.

 

Looking at closed or ex-Underground lines, the South Acton branch of the District line was also single track and had a single car running the shuttle service to/from Acton Town. Whilst the New Cross and New Cross Gate branches of the Metropolitan/East London line were both single track IIRC.

 

The Aldwych branch was built as twin tube tunnels, but for most of its life was operated as a shuttle with just one bore in use. I travelled on it regularly when I worked in Surrey Street.

 

If you want to use modellers licence, the Rickmansworth Church Street branch of the Watford DC lines was single track 4 rail, and could have taken Bakerloo line trains, as could the Croxley branch. The Croxley branch should be taking underground trains in 2017, this time hosting the rerouted Metropolitan Line.

 

If you want rural Metropolitan single track, there's always the Quainton Road to Brill line. Never electrified, but you could run Met A Class locos. Use modellers' licence again and electrify it for use the the Heljan MetroVic or T Stock, or even double track it and and "extend" it through to Oxford as the Met once wanted to do.

 

Wasn't there an "Olympia Branch", just used for exhibitions? Felt like single track, even if it wasn't.

 

I also liked the fact that the Watford line had both tube and BR electrics stock, running on the same tracks IIRC..

[Oldddudders]

Wasn't there an "Olympia Branch", just used for exhibitions? Felt like single track, even if it wasn't.

 

I also liked the fact that the Watford line had both tube and BR electrics stock, running on the same tracks IIRC..

Olympia is still served by the District Line, I think, being a little branch from the other exhibition centre, Earls Court. The "DC" line from Euston to Watford lost the tube trains beyond Harrow & Wealdstone many years ago, and in my time had a 20-minute frequency service all day from Euston. It was only called "DC" comparatively recently - since the rest of Euston became "AC" in 1965. TfL has now advanced plans to divert the original Watford Metropolitan service round to Watford High Street and Watford Junction instead, presumably leaving select Cassiobury Park Avenue without trains.

 

Anent Ongar, it must be more than 50 years ago that this schoolboy was invited to travel in the cab between there and Epping, by this time in 1962 stock.

[diesel85tom]

^^ Watford high street was a station I thought about modeling but as it is set in a cutting with walled sides it would make viewing a bit difficult unless it was made end on so you could see through the station,erm another day perhaps.

 

With my above layout im yet to deciced on a station building, im not sure whether to customise a kit from radleys or have a go at scratch building my own 1930's building. Decision decisions.

[andyman7]

Olympia is still served by the District Line, I think, being a little branch from the other exhibition centre, Earls Court. The "DC" line from Euston to Watford lost the tube trains beyond Harrow & Wealdstone many years ago, and in my time had a 20-minute frequency service all day from Euston. It was only called "DC" comparatively recently - since the rest of Euston became "AC" in 1965. TfL has now advanced plans to divert the original Watford Metropolitan service round to Watford High Street and Watford Junction instead, presumably leaving select Cassiobury Park Avenue without trains.

The Bakerloo was cut back to Stonebridge Park in 1982, and extended back to H&W in 1985, initially peak hours only. The section of the 'DC' line north of Harrow underwent probably the most savage cuts in service of any line in London in the 1980s. In 1980, between 8 and 9am at Hatch End I recall eight London-bound services, (two Bakerloo, three Broad Street - including one via Hampstead Heath - and three Euston) All but one were six or 7 coach trains. By the time I was working in London in 1990, there were just three 3-car trains to Euston in that hour, plus a Liverpool St train that was cancelled every day.  

 

BTW before being known as the DC it was called the New Line - on account of having been built in 1914 as opposed to 1838 for the main line.....

[GoingUnderground]

The Bakerloo was cut back to Stonebridge Park in 1982, and extended back to H&W in 1985, initially peak hours only. The section of the 'DC' line north of Harrow underwent probably the most savage cuts in service of any line in London in the 1980s. In 1980, between 8 and 9 at Hatch End I recall 8 services, (two Bakerloo, three Broad Street - including one via Hampsetad Heath - and three Euston) All but one were six or 7 coach trains. By the time I was working in London in 1990, there were just three 3-car trains to Euston, plus a Liverpool St train that was cancelled every day.  

 

BTW before being known as the DC it was called the New Line - on account of having been built in 1914 as opposed to 1838 for the main line.....

I thought that there were 4 Bakerloo through trains to/from Watford in the peak period until Uncle Ken axed the Bakerloo back to Queens Park/Stonebridge Park. I was on the last Bakerloo line train to Watford Junction.

 

Today there is just the 3 trains every hour, 20 minute service, north of Harrow & Wealdstone on the DC lines, the same as the post Broad Street closure pattern. In the peak they're crammed up to Willesden Junction where half the passengers get off, and at Queens Park where many of the rest get out for the Bakerloo.  At the start and end of the day it goes out to a 30 minute service interval. Never mind adding the extra carriage to the Overground, just reinstate the Bakerloo back to Watford Junction in the off peak period, (the 1982 conductor rail is still sitting in the 4 foot on both lines, 32 years after the service was axed), and cut back the Euston - Watford Overground service to a shuttle service between Euston and the centre turnback platform at Willesden Junction. When the Met reaches Watford High Street in 2017 there will be this bizarre gap between Wealdstone and Watford High Street, Headstone Lane, Hatch End, Carpenders Park and Bushey which will only be served by the Overground 3rd rail service.

 

However, back on topic, I'd forgotten about the Olympia Branch. The flat junction with the District main line is double tracked, and up to 1941, I think it was one of the terminii for the Metropolitan Hammersmith & City services when it was known as Addison Road. I've never seen the track plan from the 1930s and 40s.

 

If you want a really rural setting, use modellers licence and complete the Central Line 1935 New Works planned extension through to Denham. The line beyond West Ruislip fell victim to the Green Belt legislation just like the Northern Heights extension to Bushey Heath beyond Edgware. I can't recall if there was due to be an intermediate station in the Harefield area.

[andyman7]

I thought that there were 4 Bakerloo through trains to/from Watford in the peak period until Uncle Ken axed the Bakerloo back to Queens Park/Stonebridge Park. I was on the last Bakerloo line train to Watford Junction.

 

There were, but two of them departed Hatch End before 8am, If I recall correctly, they departed at around 0730ish, 0750ish, 0807 and the last was the 0826. There were four back in the evening and they berthed overnight in Croxley shed. 

[Xerces Fobe2]

Mill Hill East springs to mind maybe with an extra platform? A regular service with trough trains to London and plenty of scope for variety.

 

XF

[Metr0Land]

And don't forget Mill Hill East had quite active BR goods with things like N2's and latterly Class 15 on goods (if pernickerty you need to identify which 15's had tripcocks fitted - there was an article in London Railway Record some time back but all mine are in storage following a house move)

[diesel85tom]

And don't forget Mill Hill East had quite active BR goods with things like N2's and latterly Class 15 on goods (if pernickerty you need to identify which 15's had tripcocks fitted - there was an article in London Railway Record some time back but all mine are in storage following a house move)

 

Mill Hill East springs to mind maybe with an extra platform? A regular service with trough trains to London and plenty of scope for variety.

 

XF

I was thinking just this last week of using ex LNER tanks with a couple gresley coaches and maybe a type 2 for freight work. I knew there was diesel haulage on the nothern line but i didn't know what type so thanks.

 

Also I have a growing collection of london underground models surface and tube so I will have plenty of variety to run/show if I keep it to a standard gauge setting.

 

Tom

[ChrisH-UK]

 

Both are still operational, and the Chesham branch has probably the best through service it's ever had since the main line was extended to Amersham and beyond with the introduction of the S Stock.

 

While you are technically correct, personally I wouldn't call the slowest service since around 1948 the best anything.

[diesel85tom]

Does anyone know if 2 epb's ever ran on LT metals?

 

[Xerces Fobe2]

Does anyone know if 2 epb's ever ran on LT metals?

 

 

Yes Class 416/3's  diidthe Bullied 2 EPB's did run to Watford Junction over the Bakerloo Line to Harrow & Wealdstone http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/features/croxley_green_curve/index32.shtml

 

XF

[Horizontal]

Although they were based at Slade Green, it is possible that the BR 2EPBs sometimes ran ECS from Point Pleasant Jcn via East Putney to Wimbledon C.S. - But even then, that would be during the period when that section of line was the property of BR……...

 

The 'Bulleid' 2 EPBs on the other hand, regularly ran over the former Southern Region section of the North London Line alongside LT stock (again on BR metals) between Gunnersbury and Richmond.

 

But for either type to run on purely LT metals, the answer is 'NO', simply because of the difference in traction current format on pure LT lines - The LT lines use a 3rd and 4th rail system where (apart from the lines stated above, plus the Bakerloo Line north of Queens Park, and the East London Line) the traction current has always been kept out of the running rails. On pure LT tracks, the outside third rail is charged to +420v, whilst the centre fourth rail is charged at -210v, thus giving an overall voltage of 630. Where LT trains have access on the national network, the centre third rail is bonded to one of the running rails (the other being used for signalling track circuits), and so giving an Earth Potential, whilst the outside third rail is charged at +630v (120v less than normal).

 

Where the two systems meet at both Gunnersbury and Queens Park, a two coach length of both conductor rails has been deliberately left missing on the LT side of each connection. This ensures that as each set of coaches within each LT train passes  between the two systems, it is 'gapped' - However, at Putney Bridge on the District Line, a special changeover system is in use in each direction. Here, each set of equipment is automatically activated when a complete train is proved to be occupying its associated signalling track circuit on the bridge over the River Thames (formerly BR property), and released ready to receive the next train when the preceding train is proved to be clear.

 

Hope this helps!

 

:-)

[Horizontal]

Two other places where you would have seen either type of 2EPBs next to LT stock are New Cross, and New Cross Gate.

 

At the second location prior to the mid 70's when the London Bridge PSB was commissioned, the East London Line LT stock actually had to cross a lead from the main lines into the BR east side carriage sidings in order to gain access to its platform!

 

BTW, whilst they were allocated to the SW Section of the Southern Region, and, before their transfer to the North London Line, the Bulleid 2EPBs definitely traversed the section between Point Pleasant Jcn and Wimbledon C.S. via East Putney.

 

One other note - At Queens Park, it is impossible for the Signaller at Wembley to set up a route on the Up D.C. Line to the Bakerloo Southbound Line, unless current is actually detected being returned through the centre fourth rail (i.e. an LT train is present). However, I am not sure that this is the case for District Line trains to Turnham Green at Gunnersbury - So, I will now set about making enquiries!

 

:-)