Jump to content
 

Replacing triang Hornby X04's with gearboxes


uax6
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • RMweb Premium

Has anyone successfully replaced the x04 with a modern gearbox and motor? I'm toying around with a highlevel gearbox to replace one. I've already got romfords on the chassis so should be easy enough to fit.

 

Andy G

Link to post
Share on other sites

Has anyone successfully replaced the x04 with a modern gearbox and motor? I'm toying around with a highlevel gearbox to replace one. I've already got romfords on the chassis so should be easy enough to fit.

 

Andy G

 

Why bother? Most gearboxes will require large chunks of the mazak chassis block to be cut away.

 

I'm in the process of fitting several old Tri-ang Hornby locos with Ultrascale direct replacement 40:1 gears and 5-pole X04 / Airfix 1001 / Romford Bulldog motors (commonly on offer on Ebay).

 

The transformation in running is amazing; especially slow running.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Well looking at it, the slimline gearbox will fit in the existing slot around the drive axle (with some sideplay too!), so I shouldn't have to do anything to the casting. There is also the advantage that I'll get a can motor and flywheel in to, and as I'm using the chassis as bases for scratchbuilt bodies I can get a lower boiler line, well that the idea.

 

Has anyone done it?

 

Andy G

Link to post
Share on other sites

In the past. I was looking for superior low speed control and a reduction in the noise output from the direct drive onto an axle. It worked in both respects and was very easy, I used the Branchlines box with 40:1 gears, which dropped in with slight adjustment, (same technique worked equally well on a Wrenn chassis) and enabled a good size Mashima can motor to be ideally positioned out of sight in the models concerned.

 

They would probably still be running now, were it not for Bachmann wheeling out a series of highly adaptable chassis under their range of models which offered near correct - or even bob on - wheelbase and other desireable features. Cue transplantation of whole new chassis into old whitemetal bodies, followed by a cascade of salvaging of Mashimas and gearboxes for use in brass chassis kits assembled originally with Bulldogs in the XO4 direct axle drive arrangement, and the displaced Bulldogs and gears going for s/h sale.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting topic,I have been thinking about this from the opposite viewpoint,  my problem has been with dead and dying Bachmann and mainline chassis, 2 X 57XX and a 94XX with Bachmann chassis are on my work bench with chassis problems as I write, a burned out motor and slipped driving wheels and I am wondering about fitting an X04 with Triang gears and Romford wheels to a Bachmann split chassis to make a reliable chassis with the correct wheelbase,

 The earliest iterations of the Triang / Hornby chassis the Jinty, ( 32 + 33mm) Princess (26X26 from memory)  had strip sideframes and Mazak spacing blocks, screwed together and will take a modern motor gearbox with minimal work, but we are talking 1950s here.   The Polly 0-4-0 (32mm?) is similar but is rivetted together.

 The later mazac chassis is really pretty hopeless as the narrow slot in the chassis does not allow a gearbox to fit without massive amounts of filing and a severely weakened chassis

As regards the replacement of the X04 I find the worst aspect of the Hornby chassis is the excess sideplay on the worm wheel, I shim mine to about 10 thou,  0.010" with steel and brass washers which improves running immensely, as does the fitting of Romfords with screws through the coupling rods instead of the pins on the older chassis, I have good results with Wrenn 2-6-4 T and Castle wheels on Hornby chassis to get a decent crank throw, but I have had issues attaching the Worm wheel to the 1/8th axle.  I have used 18mm Romfords on a 94XX (Farish) Pannier and simply drilled out the square on the centre wheel and pressed Hornby bushes in and pressed them onto the Hornby axle.

I have used several "Long" motors from Computers on various chassis, both Wrenn 8F and Brass with Romford gears but not on cast Hornby chassis as there is just too much Mazak to carve away. However, I shall now revisit my scrap box with a view to grafting two "Polly" chassis together with Bachmann rods and a computer motor, that's if I don't get sidetracked with the twin motor 9F chassis again. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm in the process of fitting several old Tri-ang Hornby locos with Ultrascale direct replacement 40:1 gears and 5-pole X04 / Airfix 1001 / Romford Bulldog motors (commonly on offer on Ebay).

 

The transformation in running is amazing; especially slow running.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

John,

I have looked on the Ultrascale website and got rather confused as to which worm & gear set you would use to replace the X04 worm & gear.  Any advice would be most welcome! 

Simon

Link to post
Share on other sites

John,

I have looked on the Ultrascale website and got rather confused as to which worm & gear set you would use to replace the X04 worm & gear.  Any advice would be most welcome! 

Simon

 

Simon,

 

See https://www.ultrascale.com/eshop/products/CAT015#RTRRG

 

Scroll down to "Worm and Wheel gear sets (0.4 MOD)"

 

Scroll down to :-

40:1   0.425"  0.653"  0.375"  0.125"                  (1)       THSL      10.80mm 16.59mm  9.53mm  3.18mm

If you are keeping the original wheels / axles, you'll need a wormwheel to suit a 9/64" axle; most replacement wheels will need a wormwheel to suit an 1/8" axle. X04 and direct replacement motors have a 3/32" driveshaft, so order your worm accordingly.

 

Wormwheels are available with or without a boss / grub-screw. Most Tri-ang Hornby chassis will require a plain wormwheel (no boss / grub-screw) to be fixed with Loctite; a few *may* have a wide enough chassis slot to take a wormwheel with a boss / grub-screw.

 

I hope that this helps.

 

Regards,

John.

Edited by cctransuk
Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting topic,I have been thinking about this from the opposite viewpoint,  my problem has been with dead and dying Bachmann and mainline chassis, 2 X 57XX and a 94XX with Bachmann chassis are on my work bench with chassis problems as I write, a burned out motor and slipped driving wheels and I am wondering about fitting an X04 with Triang gears and Romford wheels to a Bachmann split chassis to make a reliable chassis with the correct wheelbase,

 The earliest iterations of the Triang / Hornby chassis the Jinty, ( 32 + 33mm) Princess (26X26 from memory)  had strip sideframes and Mazak spacing blocks, screwed together and will take a modern motor gearbox with minimal work, but we are talking 1950s here.   The Polly 0-4-0 (32mm?) is similar but is rivetted together.

 The later mazac chassis is really pretty hopeless as the narrow slot in the chassis does not allow a gearbox to fit without massive amounts of filing and a severely weakened chassis

As regards the replacement of the X04 I find the worst aspect of the Hornby chassis is the excess sideplay on the worm wheel, I shim mine to about 10 thou,  0.010" with steel and brass washers which improves running immensely, as does the fitting of Romfords with screws through the coupling rods instead of the pins on the older chassis, I have good results with Wrenn 2-6-4 T and Castle wheels on Hornby chassis to get a decent crank throw, but I have had issues attaching the Worm wheel to the 1/8th axle.  I have used 18mm Romfords on a 94XX (Farish) Pannier and simply drilled out the square on the centre wheel and pressed Hornby bushes in and pressed them onto the Hornby axle.

I have used several "Long" motors from Computers on various chassis, both Wrenn 8F and Brass with Romford gears but not on cast Hornby chassis as there is just too much Mazak to carve away. However, I shall now revisit my scrap box with a view to grafting two "Polly" chassis together with Bachmann rods and a computer motor, that's if I don't get sidetracked with the twin motor 9F chassis again. 

Fortunately there seem to be plenty of 1950s type chassis still around, with or without broken bodies, so if that's the raw material you require there is no shortage.....!

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I have two old Kay's J50 bodyline kits.

I built both (many years ago) with Horny chassis, which I rewheeled with Romfords, and fitted with 5-pole motors. 

They ran really well  with good slow running.

However, I was never happy with the overlong rear overhang.

I fitted one with a Gibson chassis, Mashima 1420 motor, flywheel, and High Level 60:1 gearbox driving on the middle axle.

The difference was noticeable. The slow running was improved, and it was much easier to control the loco.

I then fitted the other with the same, but driving through an extender on the rear axle.

The same performance improvement was noticed. So I now have two very smooth running shunters, which are controllable down to less than scale walking pace.

An old BEC J52 had the Hornby chassis replaced by Mainly Trains chassis,  Mashima 1024 with flywheel and High level 80:1 gearbox, with same improvement.

A Mainline J72 was converted into a J71 with Mainly Trains kit, Mashima 1024?, and High Level 80:1 to become another smooth slow runner.

I bought a D49 kit built loco at a good price. It was built around a Triang L1 chassis, and was very fast. I am currently building a Comet chassis with a Mashima motor etc. to fit it, and looking forward to some good slow running.

It is more expensive to replace the chassis/ motor/ gearbox completely,  but the end result is worth the effort and expense.

 

Thane of Fife

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 7 years later...
  • RMweb Gold

Why not just put some insulation on the uninsulated side of the X04 so that the motor windings become isolated from the rails. Connect a bit of wire to the tag on the motor fixing. Disconnect the wiring to the previously insulated brush and also any other capacitors or inductors connected across the brushes. These two wires now provide the track feeds to the decoder (typically red and black colours). Add two wires (typically grey and orange) from the decoder - each to one brush.

This works - I've done 2 in the last week.

X04 on DCC can work well; if reluctant to run then try a new magnet.

  • Agree 1
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...