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Kato GEX sets and the future

backofanenvelope

By backofanenvelope,
in Swiss Railways

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Gordonwis

Gordonwis

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, Gordonwis said:

So here they are - my three Ds vans. Left to right: RhB Modellbahn, Kato, A/K Models (Shapeways)

 

20210902_220249.jpg.89063c74d224d39b72c9101c44e8586e.jpg

 

 


My observations:
1) until the advent of the Kato I hadn't really noticed how much longer than 'correct' the A/K version is (as I only had the RhBM version to visually compare with)
2) Of the two artisan versions, I still prefer the overall shape of the A/K
3) Like some other RhBM products the RhBM Ds van is too 'angular' - notably the square cornered windows and the lack of 'dome-ness' to the roof and curvature on the ends
4) The windows of the RhBM are too shallow
4) Despite its drawbacks, the RhBM version probably looks the better bet to keep in the 'active fleet'
5) now that the Kato version is in service, I might address some of the drawbacks of the RhBM one (eg taking a file to the window corners to 'round them out' (I probably won't try and make the windows larger but may change my mind)

 

 

 

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Glorious NSE

Glorious NSE

Posted
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On 01/09/2021 at 00:50, PaulRhB said:

As Gordon notes we now need the non pantograph types ;) On my modular system I’ll actually be running short Regio style sets with these. 
We now need some AB’s (half 1st), Bt’s and BDt’s, (steuerwagen), please Kato :) 


I've wondered if you can kitbash a pair of the BB AB's using a Kato A + B.... I know that's not the usual EWII AB used on the Regio's but from what I can tell stand-ins aren't uncommon.

I don't think converting Kato EW1s to an EWII version is likely to work sadly (I did look!) - I think you can get an EWII on Shapeways tho?

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PaulRhB

PaulRhB

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37 minutes ago, Glorious NSE said:

I don't think converting Kato EW1s to an EWII version is likely to work sadly (I did look!) - I think you can get an EWII on Shapeways tho?

Yes you’d need to go with that. I really ought to work up some transfer artwork for Nm too. 

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Gordonwis

Gordonwis

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, PaulRhB said:

Yes you’d need to go with that. I really ought to work up some transfer artwork for Nm too. 

 

 

Someone did produce some transfer artwork but the trail has gone cold. It would be very helpful Paul - my Shapeways coaches that have pritt sticked paper 'transfers' sorely need something tidier (especially for close up inspection)

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Gordonwis

Gordonwis

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Glorious NSE said:


I don't think converting Kato EW1s to an EWII version is likely to work sadly (I did look!) - I think you can get an EWII on Shapeways tho?

 

No it isn't worth it.

 

The Shapeways EWII is fine.

 

The designer did his best to produce 3D chassis and bogies to go with it, but the coach sits too high (but see my next post about model heights) with those fitted and the bogies don't run freely enough, so the body is fitted on a GEX panorama chassis (as all my 3D 'kits' are). It means the bogies are not technically correct for an EWII but it is much more important that the coach runs well when included in a set of Kato RTR vehicles

 

Here is mine that has been 'in service' since circa 2015:

 

 

20210909_145044 (2).jpg

Edited by Gordonwis
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Gordonwis

Gordonwis

Posted
Posted (edited)

On the subject of sizes, I have always thought the Kato EWI seem a bit too 'squat' somehow - almost as if they are slightly under 1:150 scale.

 

Here is an EWI with an RhB Modellbahn Za tank wagon

 

According to the data I have to hand, the two vehicles in the picture each have the  'correct' rail-top to top-of-vehicle dimension, so why on earth does the wagon tower over the coach. 

 

By the way the Za height is 'correct' after the fitting of Kato coach bogies (RhB Modellbahn's bogies are a bit too 'bulky' for my liking)

 

Does anyone have an EWI drawing to hand which might help?

 

Ideas please!...

20210909_145328.jpg

20210909_145333.jpg

Edited by Gordonwis
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Gordonwis

Gordonwis

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

3420mm or 22.8mm from rail. (Roof not ventilators)

 

OK, that agrees with my data and the Kato EWI is 23 mm according to my ruler!

 

The Za height rail to top of tank hatch is 3750. My model in the same dimension is 26mm

 

So it seems the heights are roughly correct, so the difference is an optical illusion perhaps

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PaulRhB

PaulRhB

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17 hours ago, Gordonwis said:

 

Thanks Paul, I took my dimension from the SBB stock book drawing of a Bruenig EWI.

Out of interest is an EWII the same height as an EWI?

The EWII drawing doesn’t have the height so it would need overlaying on the EWI to scale it and the laptop is dead so I can’t do that on the tablet. I think from memory it’s the same basic shell without the sloped roof end and they only changed the height with the EW IV. 

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Glorious NSE

Glorious NSE

Posted
Posted

Not sure they have quite got the Za walkway right, which probably isn't helping the look, but I think from a UK perspective we're used to coaching stock which is consistently as high as the top of the loading gauge allows - and that just isn't the case here.

EW1's are a long way below the modern RhB loading gauge!

 

i-WK6TX4b-XL.jpg

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Gordonwis

Gordonwis

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Glorious NSE said:

Not sure they have quite got the Za walkway right, which probably isn't helping the look, 

 

 

No indeed. Some of RhB Modellbahn's prints are better than others; some are good, some are  'OK'; some are erronerous, eg the Fac hoppers are the wrong shape: 

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/7a625b_b9241979c0384ca08629021c1ee6278f~mv2_d_2561_1477_s_2.jpg/v1/fill/w_750,h_500,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/7a625b_b9241979c0384ca08629021c1ee6278f~mv2_d_2561_1477_s_2.webp

 

My Za was from a kit (He has stopped doing kit form versions now) and I have 'flattened' the ends (which entails removing the ladder) because the original 3D is too bulbous:

 https://static.wixstatic.com/media/7a625b_107fb1d1ed324d0a9888d44d9ef53d74~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_750,h_500,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/7a625b_107fb1d1ed324d0a9888d44d9ef53d74~mv2.webp

Edited by Gordonwis
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Glorious NSE

Glorious NSE

Posted
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On 10/09/2021 at 15:11, JimFin said:

Looks pretty similar height relative to the loco cab windows / roof line?

 

 


Not quite sure of where you were going with this so apologies if i'm misunderstanding?

I wasn't intending a criticism of Kato's models, I think the models are done well, and appear to scale well individually and to each other - but the loco is taller than the coach in both real life and so (correctly) taller in model form.

The body slopes back up from the cab front, so the loco is a fair bit taller than the cab face, which is what I think you were comparing to? Crop of side-on shot:
i-km5Bjgr-X2.jpg.8d4921a2f14f83b7e6e120c846a91d14.jpg


Crop into 3/4 shot - this is an EWII so different roof ends (didn't have a good enough similar one with an EW1) but EW1/EWII are a similar overall "bulk" at least - the more modern coaches have a larger profile which is closer to the 4/4III.
i-QNr3P8p-X2_crop.jpg.c90da7c56cc204563e9e9b65e9911b5d.jpg

And so back to my point as I think I made it a bit clumsily - the tank *should be* taller than the coach, as that is the reality - it's just a reality that looks wierd to us because in the UK tank wagons are never noticeably taller than coaches!

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JimFin

JimFin

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52 minutes ago, Glorious NSE said:

Not quite sure of where you were going with this so apologies if i'm misunderstanding?

No - I think it was misunderstanding! Attached are the Kato Ge, my 3d print tank wagon and Kato EW1 - so yes the tank does sit high.

 

It may be a little taller than prototype but the issue with the Nm goods wagons is the bogie is virtually the same width as the chassis and cannot be recessed in as with a coach.

 

IMG_20210914_132959.jpg.9a513571d536066df5f7262f76519c0a.jpg

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Gordonwis

Gordonwis

Posted
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11 hours ago, Glorious NSE said:


Not quite sure of where you were going with this so apologies if i'm misunderstanding?

I wasn't intending a criticism of Kato's models, I think the models are done well, and appear 

 

 

No I completely understood what you were illustrating. We have collectively established that some RhB wagons are indeed taller than EWI, so should be taller in models, but the RhB Modellbahn wagons still look excessively tall but the dimensions seem to say otherwise, hence my original comment!  

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Gordonwis

Gordonwis

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, JimFin said:

 my 3d print tank wagon and Kato EW1 - so yes the tank does sit high.

 

It may be a little taller than prototype but the issue with the Nm goods wagons is the bogie is virtually the same width as the chassis and cannot be recessed in as with a coach.

 

 

There is a 'lower slung' type Za which should not be taller than an EW coach - as illustrated here with 8111 next to an EWII:

 

http://www.haribu.ch/coppermine/albums/Bilder hochladen/2015-02-24 Harry/DUL_5311.jpg

Edited by Gordonwis
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Glorious NSE

Glorious NSE

Posted
Posted
On 14/09/2021 at 13:36, JimFin said:

No - I think it was misunderstanding! Attached are the Kato Ge, my 3d print tank wagon and Kato EW1 - so yes the tank does sit high.

 

It may be a little taller than prototype but the issue with the Nm goods wagons is the bogie is virtually the same width as the chassis and cannot be recessed in as with a coach.


Yes totally agree, a reasonable trade-off to make it work. 

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PaulRhB

PaulRhB

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37 minutes ago, Jim Easterbrook said:

Another EW1 vs RhB wagon height comparison.

50049550888_5ee080508c_z.jpg

MDS Rhätische Bahn wagons by Jim Easterbrook, on Flickr

 

The GEX carriage is quite a bit taller.

50049548208_5b2a5968bf_z.jpg

MDS Rhätische Bahn wagons by Jim Easterbrook, on Flickr

Yes and the Haik is about 1mm taller than reality which is why I’ve been shaving 0.8mm off the bogie boss on mine. 

 

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Gordonwis

Gordonwis

Posted
Posted (edited)

Two more Kato / Noch RhB Ge4/4III liveries announced:

 

EMS ( low priority personally, I'll save money by keeping the repaint I did ages ago (easy to do all over white repaint)

 

Hockey Club Davos  (I'm definitely interested in this one - as it's a long standing advertising livery and quite complex/Subtle to recreate 'at home' 

Edited by Gordonwis
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