Gordonwis Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 14 hours ago, Gordonwis said: So here they are - my three Ds vans. Left to right: RhB Modellbahn, Kato, A/K Models (Shapeways) My observations: 1) until the advent of the Kato I hadn't really noticed how much longer than 'correct' the A/K version is (as I only had the RhBM version to visually compare with) 2) Of the two artisan versions, I still prefer the overall shape of the A/K 3) Like some other RhBM products the RhBM Ds van is too 'angular' - notably the square cornered windows and the lack of 'dome-ness' to the roof and curvature on the ends 4) The windows of the RhBM are too shallow 4) Despite its drawbacks, the RhBM version probably looks the better bet to keep in the 'active fleet' 5) now that the Kato version is in service, I might address some of the drawbacks of the RhBM one (eg taking a file to the window corners to 'round them out' (I probably won't try and make the windows larger but may change my mind) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 On 01/09/2021 at 00:50, PaulRhB said: As Gordon notes we now need the non pantograph types On my modular system I’ll actually be running short Regio style sets with these. We now need some AB’s (half 1st), Bt’s and BDt’s, (steuerwagen), please Kato I've wondered if you can kitbash a pair of the BB AB's using a Kato A + B.... I know that's not the usual EWII AB used on the Regio's but from what I can tell stand-ins aren't uncommon. I don't think converting Kato EW1s to an EWII version is likely to work sadly (I did look!) - I think you can get an EWII on Shapeways tho? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted September 9, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 9, 2021 37 minutes ago, Glorious NSE said: I don't think converting Kato EW1s to an EWII version is likely to work sadly (I did look!) - I think you can get an EWII on Shapeways tho? Yes you’d need to go with that. I really ought to work up some transfer artwork for Nm too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonwis Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 1 hour ago, PaulRhB said: Yes you’d need to go with that. I really ought to work up some transfer artwork for Nm too. Someone did produce some transfer artwork but the trail has gone cold. It would be very helpful Paul - my Shapeways coaches that have pritt sticked paper 'transfers' sorely need something tidier (especially for close up inspection) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonwis Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Glorious NSE said: I don't think converting Kato EW1s to an EWII version is likely to work sadly (I did look!) - I think you can get an EWII on Shapeways tho? No it isn't worth it. The Shapeways EWII is fine. The designer did his best to produce 3D chassis and bogies to go with it, but the coach sits too high (but see my next post about model heights) with those fitted and the bogies don't run freely enough, so the body is fitted on a GEX panorama chassis (as all my 3D 'kits' are). It means the bogies are not technically correct for an EWII but it is much more important that the coach runs well when included in a set of Kato RTR vehicles Here is mine that has been 'in service' since circa 2015: Edited September 9, 2021 by Gordonwis 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonwis Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 (edited) On the subject of sizes, I have always thought the Kato EWI seem a bit too 'squat' somehow - almost as if they are slightly under 1:150 scale. Here is an EWI with an RhB Modellbahn Za tank wagon According to the data I have to hand, the two vehicles in the picture each have the 'correct' rail-top to top-of-vehicle dimension, so why on earth does the wagon tower over the coach. By the way the Za height is 'correct' after the fitting of Kato coach bogies (RhB Modellbahn's bogies are a bit too 'bulky' for my liking) Does anyone have an EWI drawing to hand which might help? Ideas please!... Edited September 9, 2021 by Gordonwis 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted September 9, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 9, 2021 35 minutes ago, Gordonwis said: Does anyone have an EWI drawing to hand which might help? 3420mm or 22.8mm from rail. (Roof not ventilators) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonwis Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 27 minutes ago, PaulRhB said: 3420mm or 22.8mm from rail. (Roof not ventilators) OK, that agrees with my data and the Kato EWI is 23 mm according to my ruler! The Za height rail to top of tank hatch is 3750. My model in the same dimension is 26mm So it seems the heights are roughly correct, so the difference is an optical illusion perhaps Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonwis Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 30 minutes ago, PaulRhB said: 3420mm or 22.8mm from rail. (Roof not ventilators) Thanks Paul, I took my dimension from the SBB stock book drawing of a Bruenig EWI. Out of interest is an EWII the same height as an EWI? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted September 9, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 9, 2021 42 minutes ago, Gordonwis said: Out of interest is an EWII the same height as an EWI? Dunno, I’ll dig out the drawings tomorrow and check as they aren’t on the phone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted September 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 10, 2021 17 hours ago, Gordonwis said: Thanks Paul, I took my dimension from the SBB stock book drawing of a Bruenig EWI. Out of interest is an EWII the same height as an EWI? The EWII drawing doesn’t have the height so it would need overlaying on the EWI to scale it and the laptop is dead so I can’t do that on the tablet. I think from memory it’s the same basic shell without the sloped roof end and they only changed the height with the EW IV. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 Not sure they have quite got the Za walkway right, which probably isn't helping the look, but I think from a UK perspective we're used to coaching stock which is consistently as high as the top of the loading gauge allows - and that just isn't the case here. EW1's are a long way below the modern RhB loading gauge! 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium JimFin Posted September 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 10, 2021 Looks pretty similar height relative to the loco cab windows / roof line? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonwis Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Glorious NSE said: Not sure they have quite got the Za walkway right, which probably isn't helping the look, No indeed. Some of RhB Modellbahn's prints are better than others; some are good, some are 'OK'; some are erronerous, eg the Fac hoppers are the wrong shape: https://static.wixstatic.com/media/7a625b_b9241979c0384ca08629021c1ee6278f~mv2_d_2561_1477_s_2.jpg/v1/fill/w_750,h_500,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/7a625b_b9241979c0384ca08629021c1ee6278f~mv2_d_2561_1477_s_2.webp My Za was from a kit (He has stopped doing kit form versions now) and I have 'flattened' the ends (which entails removing the ladder) because the original 3D is too bulbous: https://static.wixstatic.com/media/7a625b_107fb1d1ed324d0a9888d44d9ef53d74~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_750,h_500,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/7a625b_107fb1d1ed324d0a9888d44d9ef53d74~mv2.webp Edited September 10, 2021 by Gordonwis 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 On 10/09/2021 at 15:11, JimFin said: Looks pretty similar height relative to the loco cab windows / roof line? Not quite sure of where you were going with this so apologies if i'm misunderstanding? I wasn't intending a criticism of Kato's models, I think the models are done well, and appear to scale well individually and to each other - but the loco is taller than the coach in both real life and so (correctly) taller in model form. The body slopes back up from the cab front, so the loco is a fair bit taller than the cab face, which is what I think you were comparing to? Crop of side-on shot: Crop into 3/4 shot - this is an EWII so different roof ends (didn't have a good enough similar one with an EW1) but EW1/EWII are a similar overall "bulk" at least - the more modern coaches have a larger profile which is closer to the 4/4III. And so back to my point as I think I made it a bit clumsily - the tank *should be* taller than the coach, as that is the reality - it's just a reality that looks wierd to us because in the UK tank wagons are never noticeably taller than coaches! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium JimFin Posted September 14, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 14, 2021 52 minutes ago, Glorious NSE said: Not quite sure of where you were going with this so apologies if i'm misunderstanding? No - I think it was misunderstanding! Attached are the Kato Ge, my 3d print tank wagon and Kato EW1 - so yes the tank does sit high. It may be a little taller than prototype but the issue with the Nm goods wagons is the bogie is virtually the same width as the chassis and cannot be recessed in as with a coach. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonwis Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 11 hours ago, Glorious NSE said: Not quite sure of where you were going with this so apologies if i'm misunderstanding? I wasn't intending a criticism of Kato's models, I think the models are done well, and appear No I completely understood what you were illustrating. We have collectively established that some RhB wagons are indeed taller than EWI, so should be taller in models, but the RhB Modellbahn wagons still look excessively tall but the dimensions seem to say otherwise, hence my original comment! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonwis Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, JimFin said: my 3d print tank wagon and Kato EW1 - so yes the tank does sit high. It may be a little taller than prototype but the issue with the Nm goods wagons is the bogie is virtually the same width as the chassis and cannot be recessed in as with a coach. There is a 'lower slung' type Za which should not be taller than an EW coach - as illustrated here with 8111 next to an EWII: http://www.haribu.ch/coppermine/albums/Bilder hochladen/2015-02-24 Harry/DUL_5311.jpg Edited September 14, 2021 by Gordonwis 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 On 14/09/2021 at 13:36, JimFin said: No - I think it was misunderstanding! Attached are the Kato Ge, my 3d print tank wagon and Kato EW1 - so yes the tank does sit high. It may be a little taller than prototype but the issue with the Nm goods wagons is the bogie is virtually the same width as the chassis and cannot be recessed in as with a coach. Yes totally agree, a reasonable trade-off to make it work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Easterbrook Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 Another EW1 vs RhB wagon height comparison. MDS Rhätische Bahn wagons by Jim Easterbrook, on Flickr The GEX carriage is quite a bit taller. MDS Rhätische Bahn wagons by Jim Easterbrook, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted September 16, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 16, 2021 37 minutes ago, Jim Easterbrook said: Another EW1 vs RhB wagon height comparison. MDS Rhätische Bahn wagons by Jim Easterbrook, on Flickr The GEX carriage is quite a bit taller. MDS Rhätische Bahn wagons by Jim Easterbrook, on Flickr Yes and the Haik is about 1mm taller than reality which is why I’ve been shaving 0.8mm off the bogie boss on mine. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Easterbrook Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 4 hours ago, PaulRhB said: Yes and the Haik is about 1mm taller than reality which is why I’ve been shaving 0.8mm off the bogie boss on mine. Me too. After reading your post on the matter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonwis Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 Here is one of my Shapeways - sourced Haik, because it is in kit form it is easier to manipulate the bogie height without fearing that you are chopping up lovely MDS factory produce 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonwis Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 And here's another Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonwis Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 (edited) Two more Kato / Noch RhB Ge4/4III liveries announced: EMS ( low priority personally, I'll save money by keeping the repaint I did ages ago (easy to do all over white repaint) Hockey Club Davos (I'm definitely interested in this one - as it's a long standing advertising livery and quite complex/Subtle to recreate 'at home' Edited November 12, 2021 by Gordonwis Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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