John ks Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 I am honoured to have a post acknowledged by Mr Tilt Kit I took the images of APT-E at York Museum on my only ever trip to the UK in March 1993. Below is the only other picture I have of APT-E also taken in March 1993 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 21C123 Posted March 21, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) Did someone say Concorde ? Roger Blackmoor Vale...... Edited March 21, 2016 by 21C123 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Clarke 1980 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Kit I have the orion wich is in my profile picture just finnshed welding it to get it mot'd again and I also have a 1965 landrover series 2 wich I shall be putting on the road after a few years so I cant wait :-) did I also mention im getting the apt-e?? lol 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSG Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 There is another valid method of modelling which doesn’t require the use of Rule 1. You can, of course, model a particular place at a particular time and that is much to be admired. However, it’s just as enjoyable to show, for example, the “Condor” with its small containers followed by early Freightliner, followed by 66s & 92s and their trains to illustrate the progress of containerisation. Alternatively, an LNER A1, followed by an A3, an A4, a Peppercorn A1 and an A3 with double chimney and blinkers to illustrate the development of the big LNER express pacifics. Horfield, one of the layouts at Warley 2015, uses this kind of principle. It's a "watch the trains go by" scenic roundy-roundy, where each train is slightly further forward in time than the previous one. It works very well as an exhibition concept. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted March 21, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) Did someone say Concorde ? Roger Blackmoor Vale...... I blame the recent Model Rail article for filling up corners of layouts with airfields for this! Great Concorde model and of course APT-P. Looks to be the same scale 1:72? Edited March 21, 2016 by Legend Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 21C123 Posted March 21, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 21, 2016 I blame the recent Model Rail article for filling up corners of layouts with airfields for this! Great Concorde model and of course APT-P. Looks to be the same scale 1:72? Well this airfield was built about 15 years ago, depending on era being run it will have a gypsy moth or a rapide, WW2 fighters or a BEA DC3 or Bristol freighter. The Concorde is Airfix, 1/72, APT is Hornby. Roger 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted March 21, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 21, 2016 Thanks Roger, never realised that Airfix did a 1/72 one , mine was 1/144. Yes I had a Superfreighter , British United and A Dak too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris89 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) I do look forward to seeing people's photos of the APT E. Although not ordered one myself (although I wish I did), whole APT project is interesting, as others said the rail version of TSR2 ( what's interesting its self) It looks like a great entry to the UK for Rapido, I will be ordering the Sterling though and very likely the HST P. Also still tempted for there F40 and EL9 etc. Chris Edited March 21, 2016 by Chris89 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brittannia Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 The APT E boxed sample on show at Alexander Palace was that good ,some one [ thief] decided that they needed the small booklet for himself [or her] ,as in the commotion on the comments above none of this really belongs to railway modelling. By the way the some models are to be sent out during this week so a busy week for Locomotion staff and thanks to their efforts. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted March 21, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2016 If the 'extra' sounds are anything like those added to the Rapido Amtrak F40Ph then its going to be good fun playing with the function buttons on the DCC throttle!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted March 21, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2016 Being a died-in-the-wool aeroplane nut, I've compared the E-Train's sound at full throttle to a fan-engined 707 before now. It's not as high pitched as a Trident's Speys, with a more boomier low frequency to it. The turbine sound Legoman Biffo has mixed for the model is pretty darn close, and if (or when...) we manage to get one of the Leylands powered up again it's as close as we'll get. Even then you'd need all ten running to get the full effect, and I'm not sure the Support Group or the NRM could afford the fuel! Thanks Kit, the last time I was at Mildenhall which is a few years ago there were still a few C135 derivatives with JT8s which I think we're the military version of the engine so I get the basic idea of sound. One thing I've never thought of before is what fuel did it use? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Tilt Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 I am honoured to have a post acknowledged by Mr Tilt Kit I took the images of APT-E at York Museum on my only ever trip to the UK in March 1993. Below is the only other picture I have of APT-E also taken in March 1993 e-train at York 1993.png Honoured? I'm honoured that you're honoured John. The first two pics show just how bad the train was in 1993, after 17 years of the NRM's 'care and conservation'............. The third pic is really interesting as it shows TC2 mounted on the only Swinging Arm bogie and a handling dolly at the other end.The E1T bogie in the foreground was under the other end of the vehicle while it was inside the Great Hall and I suspect you were there while they were moving TC2 into The Works area, and you can tell it's been inside as it's stlll very clean. Kit I have the orion wich is in my profile picture just finnshed welding it to get it mot'd again and I also have a 1965 landrover series 2 wich I shall be putting on the road after a few years so I cant wait :-) did I also mention im getting the apt-e?? lol Ah yes, I should have recognised the car from your avatar, sorry. Oh, you're getting one of those APT-E models then? I hear they're pretty good.............. Re Concorde models, yes, Airfix did sell the 1/72 scale kit for some years, but it's available from Revell right now. It's not perfect, but it sure is BIG! Re fuel and sounds, it occurs to me that BA 707s used Rolls Royce Conways, which were a LOT louder than the Pratt & Whitney JT3D-3s I was thinking off. We used normal rail diesel fuel in E-Train, the Leyland truck engine having been designed to run on normal road diesel of course. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted March 21, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2016 Sorry Kit, it's JT3 not 8. Oh Conway 707 I'd forgotten them. I'd have loved to have heard it. Would Leyland have managed to silence it in a truck,if it had been successful imagine the noise at motorway service stations with all these starting away. Gas turbine engines are truly multi fuel the extra podded jets fitted to the B36 bomber ( were they j35s?) ran on avgas ( petrol) the tanks on that must have been huge as it had capacity to do a USA to Russia and back to some rubble where the US had been without refueling as they couldn't (at first?) refuel mid air With regards model aircraft I had on a previous layout an airbase perimeter fence ( complete with anti nuclear supporters) and a model of a B47 coming into land over the layout 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Phil Parker Posted March 21, 2016 Administrators Share Posted March 21, 2016 I'm looking forward to my APT-E because it was "The Future" when I was a child. Drawings and photos of it fired my imagination. Trying to work out how to build a model has occupied my time occasionally. Etched sides rolled around a soldered up framework seemed the best option, but I'm happy to not have to ponder that any more. Sadly, all my layouts are too short to accomodate it so I'm thinking it should reside on a cushion, but which colour? Seriously though, I've enjoyed following developments. Getting to know Kit, Jason and Bill has been fantastic although some of them seem to leave me for dust in the "knowing about sci-fi" stakes! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 7013 Posted March 21, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 21, 2016 Catching up with the thread I thought is was going to degenerate in to childish handbag fest that many threads descend into. Fortunately Coombe Martin has decided to leave it alone. Everyone has an opinion and we vote with our wallets on whether we will buy a model or not. Although I took it for granted as a kid, I grew up in some of the most exciting times in the history of the development of diesel/electric/gas turbine locos. I was fortunate enough to see many of todays one offs etc in prototypical form including the APT-E when it was doing its high speed runs on WR rails. The APT-E was something that blew you away when you saw it travelling at speed and could hear the roar of the gas turbines. I saw Concorde take off on its first test flight, seeing APT-E was right up there with that experience. Kit Spackman is the sort of person you could listen to all day, he is from a breed of engineer that were right out on the cutting edge of development and not afraid to take chances. There will be an awful lot of envious people when, we who stumped up our deposits and have paid our balances receive this great locomotive set. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shed83a Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Tomorrow could be a big day for some of us. I reckon that the first deliveries could be that soon. Who is going to be first past the post with piccies or vids of their new silver banana? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Tilt Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Sorry Kit, it's JT3 not 8. Oh Conway 707 I'd forgotten them. I'd have loved to have heard it. Would Leyland have managed to silence it in a truck,if it had been successful imagine the noise at motorway service stations with all these starting away. Gas turbine engines are truly multi fuel the extra podded jets fitted to the B36 bomber ( were they j35s?) ran on avgas ( petrol) the tanks on that must have been huge as it had capacity to do a USA to Russia and back to some rubble where the US had been without refueling as they couldn't (at first?) refuel mid air With regards model aircraft I had on a previous layout an airbase perimeter fence ( complete with anti nuclear supporters) and a model of a B47 coming into land over the layout Leyland made quite a good job of silencing the truck, via a couple of MONSTER exhaust pipes running up the rear of the cab, but the truck sound track is different to the same engine(s) running aboard E-Train. The power turbine in the truck drives a 5-speed automatic gearbox so the engine sound rises and falls as the truck changes gears. On E-Train the turbines tended to either run at maximum power or ran at lower throttle settings with very little running at medium settings. There's a few YouTube vids of the sole remaining turbine truck running at various truck events, probably the best one being here :- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDetvPcg3tA At around 25 secs. there's a super sound clip of the turbine starting, but it doesn't need to warm up as the E-Train engines did as it was running anyway just prior to the re-start. You can see the exhausts as it drives away but it never gets up to power in the confines of the Gaydon car park! The guy who owns the truck, Tony Knowles, has done a superb restoration job on it, it looks better than the one on the Leyland stand at the 1968 Commercial Motor Show! B-36s never were fitted for flight refueling, probably because they could stay airborne for over 24 hrs anyway! There's a great bit in the film 'Strategic Air Command' where James Stewart, who's been recalled to duty from reserve status, goes off on a 'familiarisation flight' in a B-36, leaving his wife, June Allyson, on the ramp, saying 'I won't be long honey, it'll just be a short flight' and she's still waiting the next day! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Leyland made quite a good job of silencing the truck, via a couple of MONSTER exhaust pipes running up the rear of the cab, but the truck sound track is different to the same engine(s) running aboard E-Train. The power turbine in the truck drives a 5-speed automatic gearbox so the engine sound rises and falls as the truck changes gears. On E-Train the turbines tended to either run at maximum power or ran at lower throttle settings with very little running at medium settings. There's a few YouTube vids of the sole remaining turbine truck running at various truck events, probably the best one being here :- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDetvPcg3tA At around 25 secs. there's a super sound clip of the turbine starting, but it doesn't need to warm up as the E-Train engines did as it was running anyway just prior to the re-start. You can see the exhausts as it drives away but it never gets up to power in the confines of the Gaydon car park! The guy who owns the truck, Tony Knowles, has done a superb restoration job on it, it looks better than the one on the Leyland stand at the 1968 Commercial Motor Show! B-36s never were fitted for flight refueling, probably because they could stay airborne for over 24 hrs anyway! There's a great bit in the film 'Strategic Air Command' where James Stewart, who's been recalled to duty from reserve status, goes off on a 'familiarisation flight' in a B-36, leaving his wife, June Allyson, on the ramp, saying 'I won't be long honey, it'll just be a short flight' and she's still waiting the next day! Without looking back through 77 pages, I'm sure someone has remembered that the US speed record holder was a Budd RDC fitted with a pair of B-36 engines on the roof. It's one version of the RDC that Rapido apparently isn't making! (CJL) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted March 22, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) Without looking back through 77 pages, I'm sure someone has remembered that the US speed record holder was a Budd RDC fitted with a pair of B-36 engines on the roof. It's one version of the RDC that Rapido apparently isn't making! (CJL) Kato did this in N scale fitted with sound. Missed out on getting one unfortunately. Edited March 22, 2016 by roundhouse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewC Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Without looking back through 77 pages, I'm sure someone has remembered that the US speed record holder was a Budd RDC fitted with a pair of B-36 engines on the roof. It's one version of the RDC that Rapido apparently isn't making! (CJL) Yet..................... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted March 22, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2016 Thanks Kit, that truck sounds awesome, just a shame it was another blind alley for BL. Is that engine descended from the rover one latterly in the P6? It make me smile regarding the turbine P6 that it got as far as a turbine friendly engine bay with offset suspension lasting throughout production. Can you imagine if it had gone ahead when home vehicle maintenance was almost mandatory especially among working men. Some bloke bodging a repair to his super high revving but long past its best P6 on a Sunday morning only for to explode as he drove back from the pub after six pints!... I've watched strategic air command many times excellent film some great B47 footage too. Apparently James Stewart actually qualified on them later as he was an air force reservist 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Tilt Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Thanks Kit, that truck sounds awesome, just a shame it was another blind alley for BL. Is that engine descended from the rover one latterly in the P6? It make me smile regarding the turbine P6 that it got as far as a turbine friendly engine bay with offset suspension lasting throughout production. Can you imagine if it had gone ahead when home vehicle maintenance was almost mandatory especially among working men. Some bloke bodging a repair to his super high revving but long past its best P6 on a Sunday morning only for to explode as he drove back from the pub after six pints!... I've watched strategic air command many times excellent film some great B47 footage too. Apparently James Stewart actually qualified on them later as he was an air force reservist Sort of, as both engines had some input from Noel Penny. Penny worked for Rover on many of their later turbine cars, but he didn't join them until after the original JET1 car had already run. He was head hunted by Leyland in 1966 by which time the ultimate Rover T4 car had been running for some years. If you look at pics of the two engines there's not much, if any, visual similarity between them although their basic configuration is similar. The thought of doing home maintenance on a turbine would fill me with horror I must admit, and I'm well used to doing all sorts of silly things with piston engines! The fact that the P6 body structure was designed around the very wide turbine enabled the later installation of the ex-Buick 3.5 litre V8 in the P6B to be very straightforward. I worked on the P6B project when I was at Pressed Steel before joining BR in 1969, and they were a real pleasure to work on, very well designed and engineered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold cambo74 Posted March 22, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) I didn't say I didn't like it, I said it was boring, and I didn't say that this whole subject was boring, but that the model was boring, and I meant boring to look at, and I havn't ignored it I have looked at it. To me it looks like a long silver tube, and it still does. The subject thread itself has at times been quite interesting, in particular the efforts that buyers will have to go to, to be able to run it without accidents. I havn't aimed any personal insults at anyone or spread any lies about anyone, or said anything nasty about anyone, but does it really matter that someones paid their deposit, or that its coming by boat or plane. And, as you ask, Id quite like Hornby to produce their rebuilt West Country but with the re-bodied tender. Or, for a completely new model, maybe some Bullied coaches up to current standards. Thanks for asking without insulting me. Boring !!! - Sorry couldn't resist Actually in all honesty - i would find that boring as its not an era or region / company i model - I prefer dirty diesels but as this forum is aimed at all comers I accept that some releases / models will not appeal to me. As the saying goes - if we were all the same it would be a boring world ...... Time to move on now guys i think ...... Anyone's turned up yet ? P.S. To tell you the truth I have preordered it but to be honest I will probably sell it as I think it was an impulse buy - and no before anyone asks - i shall not be putting it on eBay looking to make a fortune - just recoup what I've paid for it .......... Thank you for your time and i bid you good day Ben Edited March 22, 2016 by cambo74 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessy1692 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) Boring !!! - Sorry couldn't resist Actually in all honesty - i would find that boring as its not an era or region / company i model - I prefer dirty diesels but as this forum is aimed at all comers I accept that some releases / models will not appeal to me. As the saying goes - if we were all the same it would be a boring world ...... Time to move on now guys i think ...... Anyone's turned up yet ? P.S. To tell you the truth I have preordered it but to be honest I will probably sell it as I think it was an impulse buy - and no before anyone asks - i shall not be putting it on eBay looking to make a fortune - just recoup what I've paid for it .......... Thank you for your time and i bid you good day Ben Not mine yet Ben, my dads off to shildon to pick ours up next weds, countdown has started! Cant wait to get it now as im sure many are, hope to see Kit n Sandra at York this weekend and ogle the example, dont think ull have much bother shifting yours if you decide not to keep it!Cheers James Edited March 22, 2016 by jessy1692 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted March 22, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2016 Sort of, as both engines had some input from Noel Penny. Penny worked for Rover on many of their later turbine cars, but he didn't join them until after the original JET1 car had already run. He was head hunted by Leyland in 1966 by which time the ultimate Rover T4 car had been running for some years. If you look at pics of the two engines there's not much, if any, visual similarity between them although their basic configuration is similar. The thought of doing home maintenance on a turbine would fill me with horror I must admit, and I'm well used to doing all sorts of silly things with piston engines! The fact that the P6 body structure was designed around the very wide turbine enabled the later installation of the ex-Buick 3.5 litre V8 in the P6B to be very straightforward. I worked on the P6B project when I was at Pressed Steel before joining BR in 1969, and they were a real pleasure to work on, very well designed and engineered. Thanks again Kit, don't know if you have seen this before but gas turbine powered Leyland vehicles are still alive and well, although as an MGf owner myself I can see this must be a pig to work on . interesting non the less as its got APT style transmission! https://youtu.be/gfJ6iVVVHIU 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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