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The Official Rapido APT-E Thread


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Now I am swapping out the points where my derailment problem occurred. The good news is the new long crossing is OK, the bad news is that the apt-e does not like going over a diamond crossing even gently pushing it (it's not wired in yet)..

image.png.67d96d834e4852c630c8fadc2c7eb4a9.png

I have a DCC Concepts back to back gauge and all looks OK but is this is the only explanation? The track in either direction, the crossing is new out of the packet the rails in and out are straight ..

image.png.becbf3186b47de9047b77f1741430e94.png

any advice appreciated

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The dynamics of the bogie won't be the same when under power as they will be when you're pushing it.

 

For a start the wheels won't be rotating when being pushed, and secondly the bogie will tend to pitch nose down when being pushed too, so the rear axle will tend to be unloaded.

 

I'm not saying that it'll be OK under power, just that you won't be seeing the true situation when it's being pushed. 

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Could the tilt mechanism be pushing the rear bogie of the rear driving car outwards just enough to cause the error in route out of the diamond?

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Thanks for all the positive advice.  I did pull and push test over the diamond with same results and was careful to provide only lateral thrust.  I measure the Back to back of the wheel not the track and I am going to use my vernier instead of a gauge to get a reading which I'll share.  I am in the process of of replacing the faulty junction with these new point and I am taking slow - butchering the points for DCC etc. check  the track bed is level adding longer dropper wires etc etc so it'll be a couple of days before I can test under power. 

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I am fairly sure the E train wheels are to NMRA RP25 standards

Peco point standards have changed over the years

Originally to a coarser scale to accommodate Triang Flanges & back to back

 

I was having problems with RP 25 wheels derailing at the frog of Peco & was told of a modification that improves the running of RP25 wheelsets

Adding  shim (red in the drawing) to the catch rails opposite the frog . They can be made from plastic strips about 5 thou thick & glued to the catch rail (much easier on older points with plastic catch rails)

The following drawing, while a bit rough should give an idea how the problem occurs & how the shim fixes it

With a little side force (blue arrow) on the wheel set the wheel can try to go up the wrong side of the frog & derail

Adding the shim pulls the wheel set away from the frog & ensures the flange follows the flange way through the frog

 

1625802302_pecopointoldstandard.png.6ef479e869ce360c5acafce8cb72620d.png

John

 

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13 hours ago, Ian J. said:

Could the tilt mechanism be pushing the rear bogie of the rear driving car outwards just enough to cause the error in route out of the diamond?

 

Not the way that Bill Schneider designed it. The cams that rotate the Power Car bodies are on the inside of the body shell just above the top of the bogies, and the pegs on the bogies that slot into the cams are quite a loose fit so there's no lateral forces on the body shell, just the rotational forces. 

 

I reckon John KS has got it right, I've had similar problems in the past, but in N gauge, and the addition of a sliver of styrene on the inside of the outer check rail solved it.

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Funnily enough, I'm going to have to implement a shim on the check rails of the RTR turnouts in the fiddleyard of my yet to be built OO layout. I'm using a slightly wider back-to-back than usual to get better running and also to be able to use finer WCG (Wheel Check Gauge) tolerances for the handbuilt track on scenic sections of the layout.

Edited by Ian J.
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Interesting that the track is code 75 - I would have thought that it didn't have to accommodate the old Triang flanges as they would be too deep to run on it anyway, and that users would be using more modern wheelsets. But I guess that they err on the side of some commercial back to back measurements being out of specification. Useful tip about the shims.

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7 hours ago, Salmotrutta said:

Interesting that the track is code 75 - I would have thought that it didn't have to accommodate the old Triang flanges

I didn't pick up on that , what i was referring to was early code 100 points , code 75 points should be closer to NMRA standards

Back to back's & point clearances are still critical for catch rails to do their job correctly

A NMRA standards gauge is very helpful But i just looked & their price ranges from US$16 From MNRA to US$38 on ebay

John 

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13 hours ago, John ks said:

I didn't pick up on that , what i was referring to was early code 100 points , code 75 points should be closer to NMRA standards

Back to back's & point clearances are still critical for catch rails to do their job correctly

A NMRA standards gauge is very helpful But i just looked & their price ranges from US$16 From MNRA to US$38 on ebay

John 

That's more than a digital vernier calliper on eBay! :)

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soo 5 thou is 0.127mm which is very thin indeed and I do have code 75 throughout my trusty digital vernier gauge shows the inside top of rail to top of rail at 16.50mm on this diamond crossing which is the NMRA standard? As for a gauge I'll pick some up[ when I am next in the US as I work for a small US company MICROsoft :-)

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It's great to see the re-release of the APT-E, The new price, WOW, The first run was definitely a bargain and really under priced,

Is it just a new batch or has it been changed or modified in any way? I've got three at the moment and now showing some interest in O Gauge,

 

So APT-E was Rapido's first UK model in OO, So come on boy's push the boat out and make her Rapido's first venture in to 7mm O Gauge.

 

 

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17 hours ago, UP 4000 said:

It's great to see the re-release of the APT-E, The new price, WOW, The first run was definitely a bargain and really under priced,

Is it just a new batch or has it been changed or modified in any way? I've got three at the moment and now showing some interest in O Gauge,

 

 

Only the packaging is different reading the announcement. It won't have the limited edition packaging or APT book included. 

Edited by Pre Grouping fan
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Well with one eBay vendor currently asking just shy of £900 for one of these, a second batch has got to be good news for the rest of us.

 

- Richard.

Edited by 47137
typo in one sentence!
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so in my continuing saga to get my apt-e  (no 0018) running reliably on my layout. I have tried fiddling with back to backs but I can't get the power bogies below 14.6mm.  I have also noticed she hates my brand new diamond crossing  (SL-E194) however she's perfectly happy crossing the three double slips (SLE-190) on my layout so I am going to swap the diamond crossing for another double slip even if I don't hook up point motors to it because like Andy mcDowell in the L'Oreal adverts she's worth it!

 

 

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  • 2 months later...

Help Wanted!

 

I'm looking for the definitive layout of the belly grilles  on the two APT-E trailer cars and inspection access at Shildon is presently rather restricted. Can anyone offer photos or sketches of the Rapido take on these for each car- or perhaps of the real thing?

 

Thanks in anticipation

 

Les

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18 hours ago, natterjack said:

Help Wanted!

 

I'm looking for the definitive layout of the belly grilles  on the two APT-E trailer cars and inspection access at Shildon is presently rather restricted. Can anyone offer photos or sketches of the Rapido take on these for each car- or perhaps of the real thing?

 

Thanks in anticipation

 

Les

Hi Les,

 

Had this to hand, hope it helps.

 

If you look at the workday reports from www.apt-e.org you might also find what you are looking for...

 

Regards

 

Paul

 

E Train.jpg

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Thanks Paul

 

The only clear(ish) Rapido belly  image I have is of their TC prototypng and I have no idea if their TC1 and TC2 feature any differences.

The two relevant shots of  TC1 at Shildon attached do not agree with this layout; the split grille being at the outer left end and the single at the outer right hand of the same side.

 

i think I may have to butter up the Shildon staff- or maybe join in the next workday?

rapido tc pt 2.jpg

TC1 left outer.jpg

TC1 right outer.jpg

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