Dapol "O" gauge Terrier.

[Dava]

My new acquisition took to the rails this afternoon. It's suitably liveried for the mooted Stroudley 4 wheel coaches when they appear, eventually!

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/96750-coxheath-sidings-goes-dcc/page-9&do=findComment&comment=3353393

 

Dava

[AndrewC]

Fenchurch sans DCC arrived today along with L.94 a London Transport pannier. I'll likely pop a pair of ESU Loksound V4 decoders into them eventually. 

 

I predict that in around 12-18 months exhibition managers will be snowed under with a plethora of O gauge micro layouts featuring Terriers. 

[Hal Nail]

Fenchurch sans DCC arrived today along with L.94 a London Transport pannier. I'll likely pop a pair of ESU Loksound V4 decoders into them eventually.

 

I predict that in around 12-18 months exhibition managers will be snowed under with a plethora of O gauge micro layouts featuring Terriers.

Or they will be on eBay along with all the 08s.

[21C123]

Hi all

 

My terrier 32636 suddenly stopped last night, one of the driven wheels crank pins had come out.

 

Once I had found if I couldn’t refit it. The thread is about 0.5 mm long as in the photo.

 

Is the threaded part supposed to be longer ?

 

I found two more crankpins were also loose and the same length, and appear to have the rest of the thread broken inside the wheel.

 

Any hints on how to get the broken part out and replace the pins ??

 

Thanks

 

Roger

[Marshall5]

Roger, sorry to hear of the problems with your Terrier.  I haven't got any Dapol locos so I was hoping someone with more experience of them would have replied to your request by now but I have, however, built a fair number of locos so will give my 'take' on it.  Any attempt to remove the broken off crankpin(s) is going to be difficult.  The only way I could see it being done is to drill out the broken bit.  Problem #1 holding the wheelset firmly in the vertical position having removed it from the chassis.  Problem #2 being able to accurately 'centre-pop' the broken off pin.  If you have got past this use a vertical drill to drill out the centre of the pin and use a screw extractor to remove the remainder.  Problem #3 The drill will possibly try to 'wander' into the softer material of the wheel centre. Problem #4 ISTR reading that the pins are secured with a Loctite type product and may not screw out which is probably why the pins sheared rather than unscrewed.  Even if this is successful you will still have to establish the original cause of the failure which could be that one or more of the wheels are not 'quartered' correctly.  In a nutshell I wouldn't bother trying but contact Dapol for a replacement set - I hope it is still under warranty.  I don't think this is an isolated case as I'm sure I've read of similar cases - maybe even here on RMWeb.  Sorry can't be more help.

Ray.

[Northroader]

I’d say it’s a dead cert that the drill will wander off the top of the screw if you try to drill it out, and this will leave you with a u/s wheel, though I don’t know a good way of solving the problem.

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Hi Roger,

 

Sorry to hear of your problems.

 

How old is the loco? How long have you owned it?

 

BTW just checked my two and guess what? Loose CP....

 

That now makes 5 Dapol locos I've had through my hands/owned defective in some way or other.

 

Kind regards,

 

CME

Edited November 13, 2018 by CME and Bottlewasher

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Checked my two chassis, one CP loose, can't use a nut spinner on them of course, so VERY careful use of jeweller's flat nose pliers did the trick.

 

I noted that on the chassis with a few more hours running on it there was quite a lot more play between CPs and the rods, more than I'd expect to find on Eg. a kit built loco. Perhaps these joints need spotting with oil too?

 

AND I found a rogue sliver of what looked like phosphor bronze swarf by one of the cranks too, no clue where it came from - a bit worrying!

 

I do hope that this isn't going to be a heavy wear item that takes out wheel sets too?

 

Time will tell.

 

ATVB,

 

CME

Edited November 13, 2018 by CME and Bottlewasher

[21C123]

Thanks for the replies.

 

I took the wheelset to work and our workshop engineer was pretty doubtful that he could drill out the pin, its a bit smaller than he is used to....

 

I've looked at the DCC supplies webs site and this is how the pin should look.

 

 

 

 

I've now got 3 broken pins, one from the front wheels, and both from the rear wheelset with the gear wheel.

 

the loco was bought secondhand in September 2017, from the second batch released in that year I think.

 

I will email Dapol and see what they have to say, DCC supplies has replacement wheelsets at 25 pounds for the geared set and 14.95 for the plain set....

 

Luckily none of my 3 other Terriers appear to have this problem, hopefully they stay that way.

 

 

Roger

[21C123]

And Dapol replied

 

Thank you for your email and sorry to hear of the problem.

 

We have not heard of this problem before so it is an unusual occurrence.

 

The best course of action will be to contact our service agents, DCC Supplies,

For help and advice.

 

 

Has anyone else had this problem ?

 

I wonder if the previous owner had taken the crank pins out and broken them then, doesn’t matter as I’ll have to replace the wheel sets now by the looks of it.

 

Roger

[Jack]

Has anyone else had this problem ?

 

 

My terrier is OK, but I had a jinty drop a CP, and I believe others have had the same shearing problem as you ... http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/115518-jinty-in-o-gauge/?p=2973888

[CME and Bottlewasher]

I'm sorry to hear all of this. I wonder if the previous owner might have tried to reverse the coupling rods?

 

By the by, if you've invested time and effort into the loco, you like it, plan on keeping it, I would consider looking into fitting Slaters wheels etc. Slaters wheels are pretty much self quartering. Looks like the Dapol spares are fairly costly anyway (as the model is out of warranty).

 

Or you could try throwing yourself at Dapol's mercy??

[CME and Bottlewasher]

.....Interesting too that some Terriers are a bit noisy and some waddle, I've experienced both aspects. One that runs almost silently (lots of play in CP/Rods) and one, with what I think has, a noisy motor? All gears etc, apart from CPs, have been lightly oiled after an hour or so of running with Labelle oil...

Edited November 14, 2018 by CME and Bottlewasher

[Marshall5]

 

By the by, if you've invested time and effort into the loco, you like it, plan on keeping it, I would consider looking into fitting Slaters wheels etc. Slaters wheels are pretty much self quartering.

 

 

I know next to nothing about Dapol locos so would be interested to know if anyone has tried to swap the Dapol wheels for Slater's ones. The reason I am curious is that other Far Eastern models use 4mm axles rather than 3/16" as we do.  Not a lot of difference in size but enough to rule out a straight swap.  I know this from having to modify a San Cheng motor/gearbox (not the Finescalebrass UK version) for use with JPL wheels/axles.

Ray.

[davy crockett]

And Dapol replied

 

Thank you for your email and sorry to hear of the problem.

 

We have not heard of this problem before so it is an unusual occurrence.

 

The best course of action will be to contact our service agents, DCC Supplies,

For help and advice.

 

 

Has anyone else had this problem ?

 

I wonder if the previous owner had taken the crank pins out and broken them then, doesn’t matter as I’ll have to replace the wheel sets now by the looks of it.

 

Roger

Yes had the same 12mths ago, started to drill broken part and it was loose in wheel, lucky escape.

[N15class]

Can you see the broken pin from the back? If so you might be able to slot it for a small screwdriver or be able to tease it out with a pointed instrument.

[raymw]

Not sure what the material is of wheel, or pin. But, if wheel can be clamped firmly, and using a mill or bench drill, with a small centre cutting endmill, not a drill, then 'drill' out the remaining pin. The endmill can be larger than the pin, but smaller than the boss. Fill the hole, and redrill/tap for new pin. If the wheel is plastic, maybe abs or nylon, then use a hot soldering iron, with a small bit, or modify bit with a wrap around of brass/copper wire, to push out the pin, or simply press it out cold - fill and re-thread hole. If you have the time, use acid (or other)  to 'etch out' the pin. I think it is unlikely that you can somehow screw out the remaining pin, if it is tight, without damaging the thread, so manual means of extraction will need refilling/drilling/tapping anyhow., Even if you replace the wheels, would improve your skill set if you tried extracting the broken pins, and could be useful info. for others.

[Northroader]

It might be better if you get the broken piece out, to replace as per Slaters method, with a 12BA or 10BA screw entering from behind, head recessed for clearance if required, bush and washers for the coupling rod, and nut to secure. This would be stronger and easier to work with, although I presume less cheap than the Chinese production methods.

[CME and Bottlewasher]

I try not to use the cheese head MT screws but CSK MTs instead....

[neal]

And Dapol replied

Thank you for your email and sorry to hear of the problem.

We have not heard of this problem before so it is an unusual occurrence.

The best course of action will be to contact our service agents, DCC Supplies,

For help and advice.

Has anyone else had this problem ?

I wonder if the previous owner had taken the crank pins out and broken them then, doesn’t matter as I’ll have to replace the wheel sets now by the looks of it.

Roger

I had a failure a couple of years ago at which point the model was over a year old. Dapol replaced the wheelset and pin, so I was surprised to see that they now suggest this is an unknown issue!

 

My problem was with the original Southern green loco, and the replacement wheelset appears to be from the IOW loco with a slightly different green. Nonetheless I thought this was good service from Dapol.

 

If failures are more common, perhaps they do not have the spares to provide replacements any more

 

I recall when mine failed, there remained just enough thread to get a short hex-head to bite with the remains of the original pin in-situ. Worth a shot before you get the drill out.

 

Neal

[21C123]

Thanks for all the suggestions, I’ve managed to get all three pins out.

 

I removed the wheels from the axles, the boss is about 4 mm think, with the broken pin 0.5 mm below each surface.

 

I used a pillar drill with a 3/16 mill bit to cut 1 mm deep in from the back surface around the pin, close to,it but by luck I managed to cur a slice from the pin as well. Once the pin was standing 0.5 mm above the milled area I gave the wheel a gentle heat with a hot air gun, then used a pair of tweezers to turn it and screwed it out. With the slice from the pin it had a convenient flat to grip. Repeat for the other two.

 

So all three came out, reassembled to axles with quartering by eye, I tried refitting the broken pins and coupling rods and they stayed in place long enough to show the quartering was ok.

 

Just waiting on new pins from DCC supplies and it will be back in use.

 

I’m going to email Dapol again pointing out that other people have had the same problem so they should know about it and it’s not unique.

 

 

Roger

[CME and Bottlewasher]

That's great news, well done too for flagging it up with the manufacturer. Its obviously a weak spot /defect. Let's hope Dapol will listen!

[47606odin]

i'm going to say they look over tightened, very easy to do, considering the size of the threads, and the shoulders. i have had many years of experience with 10BA bolts, and if you don't judge it right, it can be a disaster, especially if someone is using an adjustable spanner on them. What doesn't help with these pins , is that they are not hex head, so you can't use a little nut spinner on them

Edited November 18, 2018 by 47606odin

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Always best to use a but spinner .....the right tool for the job.....

Edited November 19, 2018 by CME and Bottlewasher

[Kubes]

Just received my Gaugemaster Collection special Brighton Works. Its bloomin lovely!