Sheffield Exchange, Toy trains, music and fun!

[St Enodoc]

7 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

the lady didn't seem best pleased with me asking for Paddington Bear sandwich.

Well, you didn't expect her to cut up a whole bear just for one sandwich did you?

[Clive Mortimore]

You known this here "wishlist poll" is it relevant to both us as modellers or the manufacturers? This year I voted for quite a lot of stuff but only 2 things I would like to see produced a B16/3 and some Collett GWR full brakes. Everything else I voted for I have either made a model of or it was something I know others would like. What would I do with a GWR Bulldog class loco?

 

I am prompted to question the wishlist as I have just read a reply on another thread about the announcement of the SCER class D 4-4-0, it was number 22 on the wishlist last year, so? It is one the manufacturer can go and measure/scan as it has been persevered, surely that was more of an influence than the wishlist. 

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

You known this here "wishlist poll" is it relevant to both us as modellers or the manufacturers? This year I voted for quite a lot of stuff but only 2 things I would like to see produced a B16/3 and some Collett GWR full brakes. Everything else I voted for I have either made a model of or it was something I know others would like. What would I do with a GWR Bulldog class loco?

 

I am prompted to question the wishlist as I have just read a reply on another thread about the announcement of the SCER class D 4-4-0, it was number 22 on the wishlist last year, so? It is one the manufacturer can go and measure/scan as it has been persevered, surely that was more of an influence than the wishlist. 

Clive, I'm sure that the ability to measure up and produce a model of something that can be seen in real life has a big influence. Having said that, I voted for things I would like for myself - pretty well the same list as last year except for the Hornby Big Prairie.

[Clive Mortimore]

25 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Clive, I'm sure that the ability to measure up and produce a model of something that can be seen in real life has a big influence. Having said that, I voted for things I would like for myself - pretty well the same list as last year except for the Hornby Big Prairie.

Hi UDJ

 

I too voted for much the same things, a class 104 DMU always gets my vote. Has one been made ? I did discuss with Charlie Petty about his company making a RTR one. He asked who would buy them, to which I said me and my mate. "Oh, that is two sold". "No me and my mate would like one between us" I replied. Not sure if I made the right sales pitch.

[St Enodoc]

1 minute ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi UDJ

 

I too voted for much the same things, a class 104 DMU always gets my vote. Has one been made ? I did discuss with Charlie Petty about his company making a RTR one. He asked who would buy them, to which I said me and my mate. "Oh, that is two sold". "No me and my mate would like one between us" I replied. Not sure if I made the right sales pitch.

A Swindon cross-country 3-car is my perennial DMU vote.

[Clive Mortimore]

1 minute ago, St Enodoc said:

A Swindon cross-country 3-car is my perennial DMU vote.

The other night I was looking at the potential of using Mainline Mk1s with an added strip of plastic card to the bottom of the coach  and may be a run of the file over the lower portion  to try and get the profile closer to the real thing. Mainline Mk 1 coaches have shallower windows, and they are not full height but the windows work out right for a Swindon or Gloucester Cross Country unit.

 

I must resist as I am building more and more stock that isn't planned for Exchange, but it is fun to make.

[jazzer]

On 15/10/2019 at 07:12, Clive Mortimore said:

 The other thing that caught my eye was most the door lights are down and the sliding vents wide open, it must be summer. How many layouts have trees and bushes in full leaf but all the coaches have their windows firmly shut as if it is the middle of winter?

 

..and , being pedantic, how many layouts have several of these  passengers sitting in their (white) shirt sleeves in the middle of summer as shown in the picture (around 7 or 8 of them on my count).

 

Or, if we wanted to be scandalously realistic, where are the model steam era train crews having a couple of pints in the pub before their return trip ( at least on the southern) or the electric era crews doing the same thing in the station bar as noted by me several times at Carlisle in the early 80’s ?

 

[MJI]

On 13/10/2019 at 13:01, Clive Mortimore said:

Last night i was running various Bachy and Heljan class 47s on my BR and LMS cut and shut trains. Both were slightly longer than normal trains as they were only a zooming around the room. They looked and sounded good.

 

While they were whizzing about I bashed these together, a pair of Driving Motor Seconds, one for a class 118 and one for a class 116. I also knocked up a Trailer Composite for the class 116, using the Brian Kirby method of making each seating bay a 1/4mm shorter therefore keeping the coach the right length. Lima made the seating bays too long and reduced the size of the loo in the center car of the 117 DMU so if you do not make the seating bays shorter then you can end up with a coach that is 2mm too long, as I did with my first attempt of the class 125 middle coach.

DMS for the 118, the headcode box needs to be bigger.

 

The DMS for the class 116. The headcode box needs removing and a destination box added to the cab roof. I still haven't made up my mind if to make it one with four lights for its headcode or a two digit headcode box, the later will allow me to renumber it as a ER set.

 

The trailer composite

 

And the other side.

 

Quite a successful modelling exercise for one night.

 

 

Took me a few days to assemble mine, was letting glue harden as I went.

 

As you know I just accepted a slightly longer length, but it is not noticeable, couple of mm.

[MJI]

On 12/10/2019 at 18:25, Clive Mortimore said:

Not up to too much. Operated the train set yesterday, nothing special.

 

There was a thread about converting Lima class 117 Driving Motor Brake Second into a Driving Motor Second. I have two class 118s with two DMBSs each so this afternoon i now have two DMSs. I am converting one into a class 116, in this mornings research I discovered that only ones with 2 digit route indicators were transferred to the ER. I could make into one with four lights for its headcode display and keep it as a WR or LMR unit. Not decided on the final outcome yet. I am however making a Trailer Composite, all parts cut they just need to be made to size. I could change my mind and have it as a class 117 as I still have an untouched extra center car.

 

The other unit will become a class 118. I will enlarge the heacode box and remove the gangway connectors. The Lima model has lower marker/tail lamps, class 117s did not have these until they were refurbished. All but the first few of the 118s had them from new. This will have to stay as a WR unit.

 

Something a wee bit more bluesie for Mr P.

 

 

 

 

Just found this thread

 

Since I have 2 x 101, 2 x 116, 2 x 117, 1 x 118, 1 x 119 it is a good job I model WR.

 

Best way of treating Tyseley stuff is to remember it was moved to MR and was ex GWR.

 

Are you still raiding Ebay for Lima DMUs?

[MJI]

120 using Mainline vehicles, now that sounds rather intreaging.

 

I was wondering about the Worseley route.

 

But rather scarely I have found pictures of 126s on the Western Region.

[PaulCheffus]

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I must resist as I am building more and more stock that isn't planned for Exchange, but it is fun to make.

HI

 

You and me both. Why am I building SR EMUs as they never ran over Woodhead because I like them.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[Signaller69]

On 12/10/2019 at 18:25, Clive Mortimore said:

I could change my mind and have it as a class 117 as I still have an untouched extra center car.

Nice mods Clive. I am still looking for a 117 centre car chassis to do the sixth Class 126 trailer, they seem pretty thin on the ground except as part of a 3 car set.

 

I have 5x Lima 117 bodies (so far) lying around now too (3x DMBS, 1x DMS, 1x TC). The old photos of DMUs piled up in a scrap yard awaiting the torch keeps popping into my mind. Another micro layout maybe......

[Ramblin Rich]

30 minutes ago, Signaller69 said:

Nice mods Clive. I am still looking for a 117 centre car chassis to do the sixth Class 126 trailer, they seem pretty thin on the ground except as part of a 3 car set.

 

I have 5x Lima 117 bodies (so far) lying around now too (3x DMBS, 1x DMS, 1x TC). The old photos of DMUs piled up in a scrap yard awaiting the torch keeps popping into my mind. Another micro layout maybe......

How about one of Replica Railways' DMU chassis ? If you want  to use the bodies, I'd be tempted to get one and bodge chassis for the unpowered cars...

[Northmoor]

6 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

A Swindon cross-country 3-car is my perennial DMU vote.

I would agree with this, they dominated West Wales in the 1970s and early 80s.  As for who would buy one, or a Class 104; well who would buy a Class 110, which were known as "Calder Valley" units for good reason, they barely ran elsewhere.  Yet Hornby still managed to sell plenty of them (and very good they were too).

There are any number of recent model releases that nobody would have seriously considered making not so many years ago.  It seems people are influenced to buy what is available, which suggests there are a great deal of modellers copying other models, instead of prototypes.

[Clive Mortimore]

10 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

I would agree with this, they dominated West Wales in the 1970s and early 80s.  As for who would buy one, or a Class 104; well who would buy a Class 110, which were known as "Calder Valley" units for good reason, they barely ran elsewhere.  Yet Hornby still managed to sell plenty of them (and very good they were too).

There are any number of recent model releases that nobody would have seriously considered making not so many years ago.  It seems people are influenced to buy what is available, which suggests there are a great deal of modellers copying other models, instead of prototypes.

I have brought quite a few 110s over time. Many have been converted to 104s, a 100, a 108, a 107 and a 114. I say converted they still need finishing but that is for another day. I can just about get away with them on Sheff Ex, so I have two and they are running as a six car train at the moment. 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Clive Mortimore
missing word, I will let you guess which one

[Signaller69]

3 hours ago, Ramblin Rich said:

How about one of Replica Railways' DMU chassis ? If you want  to use the bodies, I'd be tempted to get one and bodge chassis for the unpowered cars...

The chassis off the 117 have all gone into my 126 build as I'm modelling Scottish units c.1970, so not much need for 117s, but a couple of the 117 cab ends may get grafted onto a Hornby 110 to make a 107 at some point.

[Clive Mortimore]

11 minutes ago, Signaller69 said:

The chassis off the 117 have all gone into my 126 build as I'm modelling Scottish units c.1970, so not much need for 117s, but a couple of the 117 cab ends may get grafted onto a Hornby 110 to make a 107 at some point.

Hi Martyn

 

The 110 makes a better 107 than Bachmann's orange 108. The only downside is the window spacing in the middle of each coach but they are the right number of windows and it hardly notices. Every ScR diesel layout not based on the Highland lines should have one.

[Ramblin Rich]

8 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

A Swindon cross-country 3-car is my perennial DMU vote.

 

2 hours ago, Northmoor said:

I would agree with this, they dominated West Wales in the 1970s and early 80s. 

And West Country I always think the 'face' is different enough to justify them over the Gloucester cross country version with the Derby type cab, although the later ones with headcode box aren't as stylish to my mind.

19 minutes ago, Signaller69 said:

The chassis off the 117 have all gone into my 126 build as I'm modelling Scottish units c.1970, so not much need for 117s, but a couple of the 117 cab ends may get grafted onto a Hornby 110 to make a 107 at some point.

Having said about the Replica chassis, I just looked & the 12mm wheel version for DMUs is sold out Otherwise might have tempted  me to offer to buy your leftovers!

[Engineer]

I'm a bit behind with most things in life, and so too with this thread.  It's good inspiration and it's a persistent reminder that I need to get ahead far enough with sorting out my life so I can carry on with some cut-and-shut work for myself, not on coaches but with model trams - someday.

 

Real reason for this overdue note is first to say thanks for including the excellent picture of the Canning Town train in the posts on 9/10 October - that area has some family connections for me. 

 

The mention of Jazz trains in the posts after this, I know, is connected commonly to the colour of the class markings added to the coaches and to the coloured stopping boards carried, but I have a serious alternative reason to suggest.  A large part of my career has been working with railway operators and very close to schedulers.  Consider a railway that has a single terminus or main line which fans out to two or more branches.  If the timetable has the trains running out to one terminus, then out to the next branch and back, and so on, then repeating the cycle through alternate routes, the creators of timetables have a traditional technical term for the service pattern -  'Jazzing'.  In some circumstances, this can become a very efficient service as an alternative to self-contained services on each branch.  Having looked up contemporary information on the original intensive services out of Liverpool Street, I think there's a good match between the terminology and the GER service pattern at the time.  The scheduling jargon may have found its way out through operations and into the wider community of railway interest - or there could be other reasons, of course.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

I've been a big Siouxsie fan for years, but never heard this before tonight.  One advantage of a late night working with headphones on, and a random Siouxsie themed YouTube playlist....

 

 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Dr Gerbil-Fritters

[Clive Mortimore]

2 hours ago, Ramblin Rich said:

 

And West Country I always think the 'face' is different enough to justify them over the Gloucester cross country version with the Derby type cab, although the later ones with headcode box aren't as stylish to my mind.

Having said about the Replica chassis, I just looked & the 12mm wheel version for DMUs is sold out Otherwise might have tempted  me to offer to buy your leftovers!

They also were a fixture of the Crewe to Lincoln and Birmingham to Peterborough and Cambridge services for many years. Mustn't forget the Scottish ones as well. I like the headcode version.

[Clive Mortimore]

37 minutes ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

I've been a big Siouxsie fan for years, but never heard this before tonight.  One advantage of a late night working with headphones on, and a random Siouxsie themed YouTube playlist....

 

 

Not sure about that one. Likewise I cannot recall hearing it before. As much as I liked the Banshees in the early days they seemed to drop off my listening habits when they became more a goth band than a punk band.

[Clive Mortimore]

There has been no running or model making for a couple of days, I think the cold I have has dampened my mojo. Never mind it will bounce back soon when I am not so snotty and grotty.

 

Well what about this, today I was thumbing through a book on Peaks and there was a photo of one at Leeds Wellington station with a Fairburn class 4 tank next to it and I homed in on the steam loco not the diesel (don't tell the rest of the DEMU committee). It had the early BR totem not the emblem, with OLE warning flashes applied to it and it was quite clean unlike how weathered many models seem to be. I think if I was to model one of mine like that I would be told it is wrong. Anyhow that isn't the purpose of this post. How far could a LMS class 4 tank travel before needing more coal? On the LTSR they went from London to Shoeburyness which is about 40 miles. I think they were used on the Bedford to London services before the 127s were introduced and that is 50 miles. So would it be correct for me to use them on trains to Leeds and Bradford from Sheffield Exchange?

[Signaller69]

3 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Martyn

 

The 110 makes a better 107 than Bachmann's orange 108. The only downside is the window spacing in the middle of each coach but they are the right number of windows and it hardly notices. Every ScR diesel layout not based on the Highland lines should have one.

Well Clive, your case for the 107 is well made! Crinan is Highland based of course, but it does not prevent my 126 turning up occasionally on a railtour or "6 Lochs Landcruise"...... so a 107 on a Dumbarton shuttle perhaps? Having not looked in any detail other than the window layout similarity, I hadn't noticed or even considered that the 107 bodyside window spacing might be different to the 110, thanks for pointing it out. I'm currently torn between whether to do the 107, a 100 or a 103. Or pick up some more cheap 110s and try for all 3. Might take a while!

[jazzer]

26 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

There has been no running or model making for a couple of days, I think the cold I have has dampened my mojo. Never mind it will bounce back soon when I am not so snotty and grotty.

 

Well what about this, today I was thumbing through a book on Peaks and there was a photo of one at Leeds Wellington station with a Fairburn class 4 tank next to it and I homed in on the steam loco not the diesel (don't tell the rest of the DEMU committee). It had the early BR totem not the emblem, with OLE warning flashes applied to it and it was quite clean unlike how weathered many models seem to be. I think if I was to model one of mine like that I would be told it is wrong. Anyhow that isn't the purpose of this post. How far could a LMS class 4 tank travel before needing more coal? On the LTSR they went from London to Shoeburyness which is about 40 miles. I think they were used on the Bedford to London services before the 127s were introduced and that is 50 miles. So would it be correct for me to use them on trains to Leeds and Bradford from Sheffield Exchange?

 

Hi Clive ,

The range of your class 4 tank is limited not so much by coal capacity as by water.  An A4 Pacific working the Elizabethan could get to Edinburgh on 8 tons of coal , say just under 2 tons per 100 miles, so your class 4 tank should comfortably do Sheffield -Leeds on its 3.5 tons, and probably back again. Of course a lot would depend on load , quality of coal, number of stops etc.

As to water capacity, some 2-6-4 tanks would do Brighton-London, 50, miles as long as they started with a full boiler.

A Bluebell Railway driver told me that on that line they reckoned around 30 gallons of water  per mile depending on train load so that would also give a limit of around 50 miles for a class 4 tank with a capacity of 2000 gallons bearing in mind they would always need a few hundred gallons in reserve because if they ran short of water in the boiler the consequences Would be dire if the firebox fuses melted.

So, in short , run your class 4  and if anyone complains you can tell them there’s a water stop on the way!