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Clive Mortimore
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Hi Guys,

 

Hope you cut and shut experts can put up with someone who has his L plates on?

 

Found this thread by accident while looking for "stuff" on cut and shut!

 

Getting bits together for my first attempt on a lima 117 to form a DMS helped by a box of bits from Gibbo.

 

The WR mainline around Maidenhead is my thing so want to get a Driving Trailer to go with my 121 as well as the DMS.

 

Any hints or tips for a beginner?

 

Cheers

Paul

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That reminds me I've got a DTS for a 122 in the work in progress box that needs finishing. Lima DMBS on centre coach chassis. 

Cutting along the door lines where possible is the easiest way of covering the joins.

Don't forget also there is a line of rivets just under the gutters so you need to be more careful than I was when you pick where to cut.

The headcode box is too small for a 121 and too big for the destination blind on a 122 so you might want to reshape it a bit.

 

The Railcar site is a good place to look for some background. https://www.railcar.co.uk/

This is the page from the BR DMU Stock drawing book showing the outline drawing of a Class 121 DTS.

513.jpg

 

Two were fitted with gangways in the late 1980s and became Diagram 513A

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19 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

Hi Guys,

 

Hope you cut and shut experts can put up with someone who has his L plates on?

 

Found this thread by accident while looking for "stuff" on cut and shut!

 

Getting bits together for my first attempt on a lima 117 to form a DMS helped by a box of bits from Gibbo.

 

The WR mainline around Maidenhead is my thing so want to get a Driving Trailer to go with my 121 as well as the DMS.

 

Any hints or tips for a beginner?

 

Cheers

Paul

The old saying "Measure thrice (x3), check twice and cut once" is a good overall starting point.

 

Think carefully about what is going to go where, write and draw lines on the work to help, and take your time.

 

If you're making a cut and one side of it isn't going to be used, cut a bit to that side and file back to your line, a safer way to get to the right place.

 

If you're carving up old Lima and Hornby dmu's the financial value is pretty low, so if you do make a total horlicks it isn't the end of the world.

 

John.

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1 hour ago, John Tomlinson said:

The old saying "Measure thrice (x3), check twice and cut once" is a good overall starting point.

 

Think carefully about what is going to go where, write and draw lines on the work to help, and take your time.

 

If you're making a cut and one side of it isn't going to be used, cut a bit to that side and file back to your line, a safer way to get to the right place.

 

If you're carving up old Lima and Hornby dmu's the financial value is pretty low, so if you do make a total horlicks it isn't the end of the world.

 

John.

Hi John,

 

May I add a couple things about the measurement and planning of the the build to compliment your post.

 

I often make two sketches of the job on paper with the cut lines marked and numbered, I cut and rearrange one and leave the other so that I can see where all the bits have come from on the rearrangement. Once happy with the rearrangement I then letter mark the sections so I then know where they have come from and also where they are going. This is especially useful if the sections are taken form different body mouldings. The link posted by Signal engineer would be great for this as they could be printed, cut up and rearranged easily before starting the job along with a print out of what you wish to achieve as a guide.

 

The other is that should a section become too short from a miss judged cut then a strip of plasticard glued onto the end of the section will make up the difference and may be filled back after all of the parts are assembled.

 

Gibbo.

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Hi Clive,

 

it was good to finally meet you on Saturday!  Did you enjoy the show?  My brother and I have seen several of the layouts there before, but it was good to see Holland Beck, a fine piece of modelling, and we were both impressed with the Aldgate.  So much so I was almost tempted to drop N and EM and  go 3mm!  However, we were both disappointed with the lack of action on a couple of the layouts.  

 

Anyway, got home, and on Sunday fired up the soldering thingyamjig and spernt a frustrating afternoon trying to sort out a lack of power to a small N gauge terminus I'm building.  I really must start a thread on that!  Maybe week after next:  taking my youngest to Oban for a few days.  

 

Keep inspiring people!

 

Roja

Edited by 37Oban
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On ‎20‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 13:07, Gibbo675 said:

Hi John,

 

May I add a couple things about the measurement and planning of the the build to compliment your post.

 

I often make two sketches of the job on paper with the cut lines marked and numbered, I cut and rearrange one and leave the other so that I can see where all the bits have come from on the rearrangement. Once happy with the rearrangement I then letter mark the sections so I then know where they have come from and also where they are going. This is especially useful if the sections are taken form different body mouldings. The link posted by Signal engineer would be great for this as they could be printed, cut up and rearranged easily before starting the job along with a print out of what you wish to achieve as a guide.

 

The other is that should a section become too short from a miss judged cut then a strip of plasticard glued onto the end of the section will make up the difference and may be filled back after all of the parts are assembled.

 

Gibbo.

Thanks to Gibbo,  John and Signal Engineer for your useful comments, which I absolutely agree with!

 

So now I am busy planning the best use of the 117 bits that I have:-  4 bodies (3 DBMS and 1 Centre car) plus 6 chassis (4 motor car, 2 centre car).

Then I can list out the bits I need to get hold of. One obvious missing part are drivers cab windscreen/window units. 

 

I can also see that I need to fabricate a number of the saloon dividing screens. Luckily I do have one as a template. Any thoughts on best material to fit the locating slots and be strong enough to withstand the window cutting out?

 

When I have my list of bits needed I will post it hoping you folks can suggest sources or ways to make them!

 

Cheers

Paul

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To answer Paul's query about modifying RTR DMUs, the same applies to cut and shut coaches.

 

Work in good light.

Work where you are comfortable, work bench height, seat height etc.

Work with sharp cutting tools.

Work with straight edges that are straight and squares that are square.

Work with clean files, clean them at the end of each session with a file card.

Work on a flat surface.

Work with as fewer distractions as possible, relaxing music is a help to me.

Work using tools that are comfortable in your hands.

Keep the plaster box handy.....I always slip and cut myself when the plasters have been put back where they belong in the kitchen cupboard.

Observe all safety tips, like do not cut towards yourself, all files should have handles on them etc.

 

Get as much source information as possible. Photos of the DMUs in the time period you model, photos from earlier or later periods can be misleading, example most class 117s did not have lights below the cab windscreens until they were refurbished and then there were some in white livery without them. Get as many drawings as you can, all draftsmen can make mistakes so if one thing on two drawings is not the same check against the photos to decide which is right.

 

There are no hard and fast rules on how you should cut RTR coaches apart. I some times lop them into bits with a razor saw other times I score with my craft knife, a few strokes and snap the side along score line.

 

Before assembly irrespective of the cutting method you must ensure all burrs are removed where parts are to be rejoined.

 

Which glue/cement/solvent to use, I think every modeller has her or his favorite. I use different ones for different types of joints. Experiment with scrap plastics and find which ones work for you. Fillers, again try a few and see which you get the best results from.

 

Be prepared to make mistakes, I always do despite having ruined what many collectors consider an investment. 

 

Most of all have fun.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Clive Mortimore
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7 hours ago, 37Oban said:

Hi Clive,

 

it was good to finally meet you on Saturday!  Did you enjoy the show?  My brother and I have seen several of the layouts there before, but it was good to see Holland Beck, a fine piece of modelling, and we were both impressed with the Aldgate.  So much so I was almost tempted to drop N and EM and  go 3mm!  However, we were both disappointed with the lack of action on a couple of the layouts.  

 

Anyway, got home, and on Sunday fired up the soldering thingyamjig and spernt a frustrating afternoon trying to sort out a lack of power to a small N gauge terminus I'm building.  I really must start a thread on that!  Maybe week after next:  taking my youngest to Oban for a few days.  

 

Keep inspiring people!

 

Roja

Hi Roja

 

It was great to meet you at long last. I thought the show was really great, the layouts were of the highest standard. I liked the fact that the it wasn't all British D&E but included some railways form foreign shores as well. Wasn't that 3mm layout top notch, scratch built locos and stock. Did you have a good look at the cardboard locos on the stand near to DEMU? They are incredible, and all scratchbuilt.

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1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Roja

 

It was great to meet you at long last. I thought the show was really great, the layouts were of the highest standard. I liked the fact that the it wasn't all British D&E but included some railways form foreign shores as well. Wasn't that 3mm layout top notch, scratch built locos and stock. Did you have a good look at the cardboard locos on the stand near to DEMU? They are incredible, and all scratchbuilt.

Hi Clive,

 

we both liked the American layouts.  Eight Dollar Canyon impressed us by virtue of being circular so you could walk around to get various views and my brother is building an American layout very similar to K Street Yard.  It's callerd "Miller's Lock" and I'm helping him operate it at the Hull Show in November.

 

As fot the cardboards boys, good to see I'm not the only one who thinks it's an under-rated material!  And cheap!  When I dabbled in 7mm I made a start in building an E4 in card.  I got as far as making my own drawings, and starting on the tender but a lack of space for somewhere to run it meant it got put away whilst doing projects I have the space for.  I may get it out and try to complete it someday.  

 

Roja

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5 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Been and found some Russian punkpop

 

 

 

And the band the cartoon character has on her tee

 

 

 

You are very lucky people to have me finding these bands.

Your diligence and generosity know no bounds.

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No modelling or running tonight. We have had to call the vet out to see one of the 'orses, hopefully she will be OK. It would have been so bad but one of his colleagues came and gave the other two their yearly injections and checked their teeth earlier on today.

 

So the dogs have had two vets to bark at.

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G'Day Folks

 

My dogs went off at a bloke and his van parked near the driveway gate, so I wandered down to see what he was up to, turns out he stopped to take a picture of a six foot 'Brown snake' crossing the road, going away from our garden and back into the 'Bush', only six feet........................Baby.

 

manna

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2 hours ago, Bishop of Welchester said:

 

The price of a second class stamp will bring the postman.

 

Why waste a stamp?

 

Take an envelope, put a fictitious freeepost address on the front and your return address on the rear. Drop it in a post box and let the dogs out to wait...

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