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Clive Mortimore
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2 hours ago, manna said:

G'Day Folks

 

The lack of suitable men during the First world war, highlighted the living conditions of many of the poorest people in the UK at the time. Well over a Million men were rejected by the Services as being so unhealthy, purely because of poor living condition, poor wages and poor working conditions.

 

manna

This was far more strongly shown in boer war which was a major reason for introducing the welfare state with the liberal reforms of 1906. The man power shortages of 1918  were caused at the front by Lloyd George. He was unprepared to give Haigh enough men to launch an offensive because Lloyd George did not want another paschendale . However, he almost lost up the war as he almost did not leave us with enough to fight off the German attacks of 1918. Once the order was rescinded there became enough to launch the battle of Amiens . “ the black day of the German army in the war” as Ludendorff called it. Had enough men as pulled in 18 year olds each year and continued to raise the to age from 40 in 1914 to 50 in 1918. Also conscription played its part and transfer of jobs to women. 
richard 

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8 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

a very good one on the British Army manpower shortage in France in 1918...the conclusion was we were running out of suitable men.

 

There's a coincidence, I was too - it was called "Blackadder Goes Forth"!

 

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4 hours ago, manna said:

G'Day Folks

 

The lack of suitable men during the First world war, highlighted the living conditions of many of the poorest people in the UK at the time. Well over a Million men were rejected by the Services as being so unhealthy, purely because of poor living condition, poor wages and poor working conditions.

 

manna

Hi Manna,

 

What a choice to have, live in squalor or line up to have your head blown off in a muddy field in eastern France while wearing a fancy dress outfit.

 

If that doesn't highlight the murderous danger of statist government over a true lawful anarchy that follows the seven liberal arts and the four virtues to anyone with even half a brain cell then I don't quite know what will !!!

 

Gibbo.

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3 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

If that doesn't highlight the murderous danger of statist government over a true lawful anarchy that follows the seven liberal arts and the four virtues to anyone with even half a brain cell then I don't quite know what will !!!

 

I had to go to Google to decipher that passage :lol:

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13 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

I had to go to Google to decipher that passage :lol:

Hi Woodenhead,

 

Welcome to the anarchy that is autodidactism, the path to becoming truly polymathic is underfoot  !

 

Gibbo.

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8 hours ago, manna said:

G'Day Folks

 

The lack of suitable men during the First world war, highlighted the living conditions of many of the poorest people in the UK at the time. Well over a Million men were rejected by the Services as being so unhealthy, purely because of poor living condition, poor wages and poor working conditions.

 

manna


Even of those accepted, medical records show that many put on up to a stone in weight in the first six  months even on army rations. Overall, the army was probably still a more attractive proposition than working in the mines, or probably even the mills.Those miners that survived 30 years underground without death or serious injury usually finished up disabled with pneumoconiosis or some other awful lung disease. As jobs go being an engine driver was probably a pretty decent job for those days, although climbing out of the cab and along the outside footplating to oil up a Midland 4-4-0 while the train was going Non stop  over the Settle and Carlisle on a freezing cold storming wet winters night wasn’t exactly a bundle of laughs.

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It would make an interesting experiment to exist in a society where people vote for what they want the society to look like and rather than have a ruling government we have a set of institutions that are there to deliver the outcomes that the people have decided upon.

 

In our current political regime we vote for the party who make the most inviting promises to society but whilst they have then the mandate to deliver those promises never do so in the manner it was expected.

 

In the past voting on such a scale would have been difficult, but with secure IT (the people would surely vote for that) then we could live in a world where we vote for a set of defined societal benefits knowing the true cost to society at the outset.

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To be fair to politicians, when campaiging they are basically applying for a job and we are the interviewer.  What candidate doesn't exaggerate what they can do, to even a small extent, in an interview?  These people do exist, they are known as "the unsuccessful".

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1 hour ago, jazzer said:


Even of those accepted, medical records show that many put on up to a stone in weight in the first six  months even on army rations. Overall, the army was probably still a more attractive proposition than working in the mines, or probably even the mills.Those miners that survived 30 years underground without death or serious injury usually finished up disabled with pneumoconiosis or some other awful lung disease. As jobs go being an engine driver was probably a pretty decent job for those days, although climbing out of the cab and along the outside footplating to oil up a Midland 4-4-0 while the train was going Non stop  over the Settle and Carlisle on a freezing cold storming wet winters night wasn’t exactly a bundle of laughs.

All of which explains why there wasn't a pensions problem back then. In the unlikely event that someone involved in manual labour (i.e. most of the male population) made it to 65, they rarely lasted much longer. Widows left on a pittance and the goodwill of family if they had one. Not really surprising that in 1945, having been cheated once, the working classes said never again!

 

John.

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1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

It would make an interesting experiment to exist in a society where people vote for what they want the society to look like and rather than have a ruling government we have a set of institutions that are there to deliver the outcomes that the people have decided upon.

 

In our current political regime we vote for the party who make the most inviting promises to society but whilst they have then the mandate to deliver those promises never do so in the manner it was expected.

 

In the past voting on such a scale would have been difficult, but with secure IT (the people would surely vote for that) then we could live in a world where we vote for a set of defined societal benefits knowing the true cost to society at the outset.

 

1 hour ago, Northmoor said:

To be fair to politicians, when campaiging they are basically applying for a job and we are the interviewer.  What candidate doesn't exaggerate what they can do, to even a small extent, in an interview?  These people do exist, they are known as "the unsuccessful".

Hi Chaps,

 

It occurs to me that politicians lie as much as they do so that those observing those lies may one day see through them, work out that we don't need any of their nonsense, and then take control of our own lives as sentient beings.

 

It also occurs to me that most people are fixed into a material rationalism that objectifies those very same lies via the reactionary responses of the brain's own limbic system mainly through the inability to control the amygdala's responses, the precise reason that the MSM news causes those that watch it to be frightened of their own shadows.

 

None of us need to vote for someone else to tell us what to do, there is nothing stopping any of us ignoring these cretins and taking hold of our own responsibility for our own lives and the well being of others. If you can't see that re-read the second paragraph until you are no longer frightened of your own shadow.

 

It is that no one actually does this that we still have such liars wrecking our lives on a daily basis, look around you right now, better yet they are the very same that will tell you that I am the nutcase for even suggesting what would be the end of their power over you.

 

Gibbo.

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1 hour ago, Gibbo675 said:

None of us need to vote for someone else to tell us what to do, there is nothing stopping any of us ignoring these cretins and taking hold of our own responsibility for our own lives and the well being of others. If you can't see that re-read the second paragraph until you are no longer frightened of your own shadow.

 

Which in truth is how our legal system works - there is a basic contract that the vast majority of us will follow the rules as set down and respect the police for enforcing it when we err.  We have consented to that contract and it's why the police do things the way they do and why it felt very odd for them to be out telling people off for being at the seaside early on in the outbreak.

 

The minority who flout the rules also to a certain extent accept the rules as well, they turn up to court, take the fines, take the prison (well maybe not quite so by choice) but may well flout the rules again when free.

 

The Government we vote also abides by rules and one of those is to protect the general population from harm and manage the economy.  It is these current rules that is making life for the current Government very hard - where does the line between those two very different objectives lie.  Not sure if even a constitution would resolve this current conundrum.

 

So back to your point, yes it would be very easy for the British people to overthrow any government, we just have to choose en-masse to do so and declare the government no longer has our consent.   I think though for this to happen would take something very dramatic as a catalyst as so far we've shown little enthusiasm for change. Of course we may have been influenced to live with the status quo.

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11 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Which in truth is how our legal system works - there is a basic contract that the vast majority of us will follow the rules as set down and respect the police for enforcing it when we err.  We have consented to that contract and it's why the police do things the way they do and why it felt very odd for them to be out telling people off for being at the seaside early on in the outbreak.

 

The minority who flout the rules also to a certain extent accept the rules as well, they turn up to court, take the fines, take the prison (well maybe not quite so by choice) but may well flout the rules again when free.

 

The Government we vote also abides by rules and one of those is to protect the general population from harm and manage the economy.  It is these current rules that is making life for the current Government very hard - where does the line between those two very different objectives lie.  Not sure if even a constitution would resolve this current conundrum.

 

So back to your point, yes it would be very easy for the British people to overthrow any government, we just have to choose en-masse to do so and declare the government no longer has our consent.   I think though for this to happen would take something very dramatic as a catalyst as so far we've shown little enthusiasm for change. Of course we may have been influenced to live with the status quo.

Hi WH,

 

This is the trick that is missed by just abut everyone and the clue is in the language:

Govern: to control.

Mental: relating to the mind.

 

Gibbo.

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ah now you need to read your Foucault to understand how governments rule... it's unexpectedly interesting. 

 

I'm using some of his ideas in my thesis.  Although I'm taking a break until at leadt January owing to the current situation. 

 

About which I'm sure he would have had lots to say, especially about bio-power and quarantine...

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Sounds great though, as I don't speak any Slavic languages, she could be singing any old rubbish, even the shopping list!  Mind you, a grocery list with a beat (not beet) is appealing.

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13 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Cor this a bit too deep for my simple mind.

 

I am sure she is singing how lovely Clive is

Yes :) I started to glaze over a bit myself, especially as it's after lunchtime, so with the prospect of looking at the inside of my eyelids for an hour, it will be on the list of things to do this afternoon. 

 

I also made out the name Clive in her singing, but definitely not the words lovely or is. :) 

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3 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Folks,

 

So long as Clive does not mix up, "Кто красивая лошадь?" with," Кто такая красивая жена?" all things will be well.

 

Gibbo.

Is there a difference? They say one gets to look like their pets.....hope Mrs M doesn't read this  :punish:  :blackeye:

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51 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Is there a difference? They say one gets to look like their pets.....hope Mrs M doesn't read this  :punish:  :blackeye:

Hi Clive,

 

So long as Mrs M. doesn't become, “недоговороспособны” you will be fine.

 

Gibbo.

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7 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

You're wasted on here Gibbo!

 

Mike.

Hi Mike,

 

I seem to have spent my entire life being completely wasted, not by my own accord, but by those that mostly stood to benefit from my efforts both enteric and material.

Non of it makes any real sense and now we have Covid-19 to utterly ruin everything, my only comfort now being that everyone in the whole world gets to share my melancholy this time around !

 

 

 

I feel that I gave that quite an introduction, anyway I'm staying wasted or not !!!

 

Gibbo.

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