Sheffield Exchange, Toy trains, music and fun!

[Clive Mortimore]

A question to my more knowledgeable mates or anyone else who reads this. 

 

Bow pens? Are they any good? What is a good one to buy? With all the coaches I have hacked about I might end up spending more moeny of lining transfers than on the coaches in the first place, so if a bow pen works for me then I am on a winner. If it doesn't then a rethink. 

[john new]

7 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

A question to my more knowledgeable mates or anyone else who reads this. 

 

Bow pens? Are they any good? What is a good one to buy? With all the coaches I have hacked about I might end up spending more moeny of lining transfers than on the coaches in the first place, so if a bow pen works for me then I am on a winner. If it doesn't then a rethink. 

 

There was an excellent post on this topic a few days ago by Mick Trice. I would have a look at that one Clive.

Edited May 24, 2020 by john new

[manna]

G'Day Folks

 

Don't know 'Who the F*** is Alice', over here it's 'Where the F*** is Alice'

 

manna

[Northmoor]

28 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Been and run some trains, still got modellers block.

 

Clive: Walk away and come back to the layout when you feel inspired to do something specific.

It's too easy to see people building a DJH loco in a couple of days on some RMWeb threads and feel inadequate by comparison.  I get the impression that some of the "high achievers" on this forum are either retired batchelors/widowers or men with wives in a "traditional" role, so they can spend 100% of their time doing their hobbies. 

I've been working from home or furloughed for two months now and have achieved very little modelling-wise, but I'm doing a few overdue DIY jobs and more cooking for the family etc, so I'm just doing other things. 

Don't allow yourself to forget it's meant to be a hobby. 

[richard i]

10 hours ago, Northmoor said:

Clive: Walk away and come back to the layout when you feel inspired to do something specific.

It's too easy to see people building a DJH loco in a couple of days on some RMWeb threads and feel inadequate by comparison.  I get the impression that some of the "high achievers" on this forum are either retired batchelors/widowers or men with wives in a "traditional" role, so they can spend 100% of their time doing their hobbies. 

I've been working from home or furloughed for two months now and have achieved very little modelling-wise, but I'm doing a few overdue DIY jobs and more cooking for the family etc, so I'm just doing other things. 

Don't allow yourself to forget it's meant to be a hobby. 

I have to agree with some of this.

i have a wife who is happy to find me jobs to do around the house and garden and children who seem to feel it is their duty to create jobs for me by messing the place up or breaking things. I think they worry that if I have some free time to myself I will get bored and get up to something nefarious. Rather than just quietly model. 
a friend had a sign which said, “ life begins when the dog passes and the kids leave home” I feel there is more than a grain of truth in this.  Sorry Clive you will have to wait on this one then. As an historian I should have learnt from others who went before me. 
richard 

[john new]

11 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Been and run some trains, still got modellers block.

 

We've all been there, at times the end result seems too big a goal to reach and becomes overwhelming. Walk away, perhaps run some trains, but maybe not the cut and shuts if finishing them looks like a mountain to climb. You will get the mojo back, but let it it take as long as it needs, to return.

[Gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

With me doing what I choose to do has as much to do with being in the moment at any given moment, sometimes it feels right and it is great and other times it all just goes back in the box for anther day.

This is applicable in all sorts of areas from reading a book or just looking out of the window, to whether I wish to cook something fancy for dinner or just open the fridge and take a bite out of a chunk of cheese.

 

Gibbo.

[Alex TM]

16 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Only a historian can misquote without getting a clump around the back of the ear.  

Only an historian or a scholar of ancient religious texts, although burning has always been an option for the latter ......

[richard i]

19 minutes ago, Alex TM said:

Only an historian or a scholar of ancient religious texts, although burning has always been an option for the latter ......

Historians get their leather elbow patches taken away for a first offense, the ultimate is to be detweeded, this is where you are stripped of your tweed jacket in an ancient and solum ceremony.  

[eastwestdivide]

44 minutes ago, richard i said:

Historians get their leather elbow patches taken away for a first offense, the ultimate is to be detweeded, this is where you are stripped of your tweed jacket in an ancient and solum ceremony.  

I've never seen Lucy Worsley in tweed or elbow patches, despite her penchant for dressing up. Does that mean she's an imposter?

[richard i]

17 minutes ago, eastwestdivide said:

I've never seen Lucy Worsley in tweed or elbow patches, despite her penchant for dressing up. Does that mean she's an imposter?

Afraid it appears so. The frequent dressing up is conceal the lack of tweed. Those in the know can see through the ruse though. 

[cheesysmith]

What to do to over come modellers block, find a simple task that is quick and easy to do, or more than one. BUT just focus on one first. Take it easy and let it flow. 

 

Suggestion, try undercoating some of your cut and shuts. A quick blast with some halfords plastic primer would show if any more work is required, and if not it is one job done. BUT only work or choose one to start with.

 

The satisfaction of a job done can return the lost mojo.

 

Well, it works for me, having just finished my three little piggys, and pulled some half finished work from the loft.

[Dagworth]

On 24/05/2020 at 10:58, Clive Mortimore said:

This is too much excitement

 

Gus has the right idea

 

A 

[Signaller69]

Hi folks,

I have been in the same boat regarding modelling mojo recently, I'm glad to say it has now largely returned. I find it best to leave well alone if not in the mood.

 

All the best,

Martyn.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

I've been keeping the mojo ticking over by painting/weathering the track in my Majories terminus.  

 

It's a Majories because it's bigger than a Minories. 

 

If I could find some bloody PVA somewhere I'd crack on with some ballasting too...

 

What sort of tank engines would run an intensive suburban service?  LNER or LMS, late 50s.

 

[jazzer]

2 hours ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

 

 

What sort of tank engines would run an intensive suburban service?  LNER or LMS, late 50s.

 

N7’s into Liverpool St. One  brings the train in, while a waiting loco is in the engine dock. Train engine uncouples and pulls forward a couple of feet, the other one leaves the engine dock and backs on to the train. In LNER days they could turn the train round in four minutes. In the 1955 timetable the evening rush hour had 10 departures to Chingford and 6 to Enfield Town between 5 and 6 pm . Sixteen trains in each direction up and down the bank to Bethnal Green and Hackney . In addition there were 5 more L1 hauled trains to Bishops Stortford and Hertford going up Bethnal Green Bank on the fast lines, first stop Hackney.

Is that intensive enough ?
Actually I think  the real Minories ( I.e. location ) is a good bet for a “what might have been” line going through or by passing Liverpool St into the City. N7’s and L1s from the GE section and N2’s coming through Kings Cross York Road and Moorgate to the theoretical Minor/Majories.

[Clive Mortimore]

On 25/05/2020 at 16:35, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

I've been keeping the mojo ticking over by painting/weathering the track in my Majories terminus.  

 

It's a Majories because it's bigger than a Minories. 

 

If I could find some bloody PVA somewhere I'd crack on with some ballasting too...

 

What sort of tank engines would run an intensive suburban service?  LNER or LMS, late 50s.

 

 

On 25/05/2020 at 19:54, jazzer said:

N7’s into Liverpool St. One  brings the train in, while a waiting loco is in the engine dock. Train engine uncouples and pulls forward a couple of feet, the other one leaves the engine dock and backs on to the train. In LNER days they could turn the train round in four minutes. In the 1955 timetable the evening rush hour had 10 departures to Chingford and 6 to Enfield Town between 5 and 6 pm . Sixteen trains in each direction up and down the bank to Bethnal Green and Hackney . In addition there were 5 more L1 hauled trains to Bishops Stortford and Hertford going up Bethnal Green Bank on the fast lines, first stop Hackney.

Is that intensive enough ?
Actually I think  the real Minories ( I.e. location ) is a good bet for a “what might have been” line going through or by passing Liverpool St into the City. N7’s and L1s from the GE section and N2’s coming through Kings Cross York Road and Moorgate to the theoretical Minor/Majories.

Yo Doc

 

Don't listen to that Jazzer bloke he has a GER/LNER bias What you need are some of those nice class 4 2-6-4 tanks that Sir Henry, Sir William, Mr Fairburn and Mr Riddles designed, Sir William also made them with 3 cylinders. And for the shorter journeys Sir Henry and Sir William's class 3 2-6-2T, empty stock trains could have a nice class 3 Jocko 0-6-0T and possibly one of Mr Ivatt (jnr)'s class 2 2-6-2T. And maybe one of Mr Whielegg's 4-4-2Ts, remember the real Minories is just round the corner to Fenchurch St.

 

I will give Jazzer a for his suggestions of locos, but watch out for them Northerners suggesting A6s, A8s V1s and V3s. Also stay alert for the GCR A5 being suggested. Having said that they are much more preferable to the locos used in Bandit Country, just their name proves how wild it is, Prairies...........makes me shudder. 

 

You could of course be civilised and bung down some 3rd rail and have lovely EMUs like what took Scousers and Woolybacks to and from work. Or even the bestest ever looking 3rd rail trains, the North Tyneside Articulated Electrics. 

 

Anyone I haven't insulted ........oh yes the dear old SR but they had boring EMUs.

 

A lovely version of this song

 

[Clive Mortimore]

Further to young Jazzer's comment about the fantastic turn round time at Liverpool Street, it wasn't so fast when the EMUs were introduced. To save on manpower the same driver and guard would often take the train back to where it came from. By the time they had swapped ends, especially if the train was a six car unit it took longer than four minutes for them to walk up to the other end and sort themselves out.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

I was actually looking at BILs, BEPs, CEPs, CIGs, EPBs, HALs, VEPs and a 4TC.

 

Then I came to my senses. 

 

I do like the look of the Fairburn backwards pacific tank though....

[Gibbo675]

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

 

Yo Doc

 

You could of course be civilised and bung down some 3rd rail and have lovely EMUs like what took Scousers and Woolybacks to and from work. Or even the bestest ever looking 3rd rail trains, the North Tyneside Articulated Electrics. 

 

Hi Clive,

 

The Liverpool to Southport line was electrified in 1902 and later to Ormskirk in 1913, the former Mersey Railway between Liverpool and Birkenhead was electrified in 1903 with the line to Wigan electrified to Kirkby in 1977.

 

My first question is, which EMU's, L&Y, Mersey Railway, LMS 502 / 503 or BR 507 / 508's ? (those Stadler things don't count!)

 

My second question is, when referring to the Wools, do you mean in the traditional or modern meaning of the word ?

 

The reason I ask is that coming from Burscough, the terms Scouser and Wools were traditionally interchangeable terms for dockers and bargees, only more recently, as described by Mr Maconie below linked, has the term Wooly-back applied to the peripheral towns about the hinterland of Liverpool especially Wigan, populated by Pie Eaters not Wools in any case, where the juice rail didn't quite get half way.

 

For further reading:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=moYLgQT35G0C&pg=PA62&dq=stuart+maconie+description+of+plazzies&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjzyJinx9fpAhWJY8AKHc_QApMQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=stuart maconie description of plazzies&f=false

 

Gibbo.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Gibbo675
Spelling

[Clive Mortimore]

21 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Clive,

 

The Liverpool to Southport line was electrified in 1902 and later to Ormskirk in 1913, the former Mersey Railway between Liverpool and Birkenhead was electrified in 1903 with the line to Wigan electrified to Kirkby in 1977.

 

My first question is, which EMU's, L&Y, Mersey Railway, LMS 502 / 503 or BR 507 / 508's ? (those Stadler things don't count!)

 

My second question is, when referring to the Wools, do you mean in the traditional or modern meaning of the word ?

 

The reason I ask is that coming from Burscough, the terms Scouser and Wools were traditionally interchangeable terms for dockers and bargees, only more recently, as described by My Maconie below linked, has the term Wooly-back applied to the peripheral towns about the hinterland of Liverpool especially Wigan, populated by Pie Eaters not Wools in any case, where the juice rail didn't quite get half way.

 

For further reading:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=moYLgQT35G0C&pg=PA62&dq=stuart+maconie+description+of+plazzies&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjzyJinx9fpAhWJY8AKHc_QApMQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=stuart maconie description of plazzies&f=false

 

Gibbo.

Hi Gibbo

 

When I joined the army, we had a chap who because of his accent we called Scouse, until the day another chap with to my ear was speaking in the same foreign dialect and they discussed where they came from. New Brighton  said our Scouse. At that point the other chap informed us that coming from the Wirral he was a Woolyback.

Plus our Geordie came form Gateshead. And again we were informed he was not a proper Geordie.

I couldn't understand any of them to start with. No one could understand Cleggy, he came from Stranraer , even the guys form Glasgow had problems. Thankfully "Don't you dare call me Paddy" from Ulster was able to translate until we got use to Gleggy.

It took until I left the army to stop being called a cockney, I was born and brought up 50 miles north of the big smoke. Even Londoners would ask me where in London I came from. Oddly my Essex/cockney accent is stronger now than when I joined the army. Plus I have developed a taste for proper pie and mash with the liquor from the jellied eels. Luvly jubly.

[Gibbo675]

1 minute ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Gibbo

 

When I joined the army, we had a chap who because of his accent we called Scouse, until the day another chap with to my ear was speaking in the same foreign dialect and they discussed where they came from. New Brighton  said our Scouse. At that point the other chap informed us that coming from the Wirral he was a Woolyback.

Plus our Geordie came form Gateshead. And again we were informed he was not a proper Geordie.

I couldn't understand any of them to start with. No one could understand Cleggy, he came from Stranraer , even the guys form Glasgow had problems. Thankfully "Don't you dare call me Paddy" from Ulster was able to translate until we got use to Gleggy.

It took until I left the army to stop being called a cockney, I was born and brought up 50 miles north of the big smoke. Even Londoners would ask me where in London I came from. Oddly my Essex/cockney accent is stronger now than when I joined the army. Plus I have developed a taste for proper pie and mash with the liquor from the jellied eels. Luvly jubly.

Hi Clive,

 

Upon my travels and by way of accent, I was regarded a Wool when in Liverpool, a Scouser when in Preston, down market toward the Formby end of Southport, but best of all and by far and away yet funnier still, posh when In Wigan !

 

All this within 20 miles of where I actually lived.

 

Any thoughts upon south west Lancastrian electric bug crates ?

 

Liverpool Exchange with the Wigan train on the left.

 

Gibbo.

[Signaller69]

56 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Clive,

 

Upon my travels and by way of accent, I was regarded a Wool when in Liverpool, a Scouser when in Preston, down market toward the Formby end of Southport, but best of all and by far and away yet funnier still, posh when In Wigan !

 

All this within 20 miles of where I actually lived.

 

Any thoughts upon south west Lancastrian electric bug crates ?

 

Liverpool Exchange with the Wigan train on the left.

 

Gibbo.

Hi Gibbo,

502s for the "North Liverpool" services, 503s for the Wirral lines iirc? The 507/508s seem interchangeable (both appear on Wirral services at least, but not for much longer of course).

 

Looks like your 100/105 combo in the background?

 

Martyn.

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Upon my travels and by way of accent, I was regarded a Wool when in Liverpool, a Scouser when in Preston, down market toward the Formby end of Southport, but best of all and by far and away yet funnier still, posh when In Wigan !

As a Londoner living in Edinburgh I was often mistaken for an Aussie - which is funny given where I live now.

[Gibbo675]

7 hours ago, Signaller69 said:

Hi Gibbo,

502s for the "North Liverpool" services, 503s for the Wirral lines iirc? The 507/508s seem interchangeable (both appear on Wirral services at least, but not for much longer of course).

 

Looks like your 100/105 combo in the background?

 

Martyn.

Hi Martyn,

 

Quite right with the EMU classes there, the 508's were originally four cars somewhere on the Southern and were transferred to the Wirral line as three cars leaving one of the centre cars behind that were spliced into 455 sets.

 

Well spotted with the Cravens-Gloucester combo !

 

Gibbo.