Sheffield Exchange, Toy trains, music and fun!

[Clive Mortimore]

26 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Dave,

 

Surely girl bands in their 60's would be gimmer bands.

 

Gibbo.

Now that is being rude about us oldies.

[Gibbo675]

9 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Now that is being rude about us oldies.

Hi Clive

 

You are more of a gadgie than a gimmer.

 

Gibbo.

[Mallard60022]

12 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Dave,

 

Surely girl bands in their 60's would be gimmer bands.

 

Gibbo.

Or gastric bands?

P

[Clive Mortimore]

16 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Clive,

 

I forgot to ask how do you arrange the connections for the articulated bogie ?

 

Gibbo.

Here we go.

 

"D" shaped protrusions, 8mm long and 10mm wide, with an hole of 4.5mm for Hornby bogie clips.

 

Both are 1mm (40thou) plastic card, one is set 1mm higher than the other.

 

The bogie clipped into the lower one.

 

The upper one is then added to the assembly. This photo shows them on a 3 ft radius curve, so any tighter then the sticky out bits might need to be longer.

 

This is the same method I have used on my dia 107-108 twin, the Hertford quad and the LMS excursion twin, with no problems so far when running.

 

There are many other methods of being able to make bendy coaches, some seem quite a feat of engineering. My method suits my modelling.

[Gibbo675]

4 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Here we go.

 

"D" shaped protrusions, 8mm long and 10mm wide, with an hole of 4.5mm for Hornby bogie clips.

 

Both are 1mm (40thou) plastic card, one is set 1mm higher than the other.

 

The bogie clipped into the lower one.

 

The upper one is then added to the assembly. This photo shows them on a 3 ft radius curve, so any tighter then the sticky out bits might need to be longer.

 

This is the same method I have used on my dia 107-108 twin, the Hertford quad and the LMS excursion twin, with no problems so far when running.

 

There are many other methods of being able to make bendy coaches, some seem quite a feat of engineering. My method suits my modelling.

Hi Clive,

 

That is similar to the way I joined up my Cartic-4 when I built that except that the bogie had a hole rather than a spigot. the pivot pin was fixed to the upper projection.

 

Gibbo.

[Clive Mortimore]

Before I disappear into the toy room, a song that I missed being released and one that is new today.

 

I think Beach Bunny is one of the best pop bands around at the moment.

 

 

No much to say about this apart from look at the motors they are using for banger racing these days.

 

 

Oh sod it, a third song, even if Mike Enterprise says I have odd taste. 

 

[great central]

Ref: banger racing, just do a quick search on YouTube, any amount of videos, pretty much any car you care to think of is fair game.

Chatting with a former racer last year, he'd packed in because it was getting silly, people paying £500 or more to get something to simply trash.

 

[stevea]

13 hours ago, great central said:

Ref: banger racing, just do a quick search on YouTube, any amount of videos, pretty much any car you care to think of is fair game.

Chatting with a former racer last year, he'd packed in because it was getting silly, people paying £500 or more to get something to simply trash.

 

If you intend browsing banger racing on YouTube,  then 'Autorodeo Nederland' might worth a look. I'm not sure if their driving/risk taking is in anyway connected to the ease of access to certain substances over there, but looking at some of the crashes it seems that a good way of quitting (maybe not voluntarily) might be to take part in the first place... Not for the faint hearted.

Steve

[great central]

2 hours ago, stevea said:

If you intend browsing banger racing on YouTube,  then 'Autorodeo Nederland' might worth a look. I'm not sure if their driving/risk taking is in anyway connected to the ease of access to certain substances over there, but looking at some of the crashes it seems that a good way of quitting (maybe not voluntarily) might be to take part in the first place... Not for the faint hearted.

Steve

 

They're just plain nuts

[Clive Mortimore]

It has been a year without any new stuff from GRÓA

 

 

[MJI]

Anyone know much about the 114 DMUs the long Derby units?

 

The ends and body profile appear very similar to the high density sets (115-6-7-8-121-122-127)

[Tallpaul69]

Good Afternoon All,

Minor glitches got in the way so earliest I will see my layout delivered is Monday. I can live with that, rather have it a few days late and all A1, not earlier and me faced with problems when I try to use it!

Anyway, I thought you would like to see the attached "lights out" views of the layout? This might be the way to go for all you folk who are not so keen on the model painting lark? Lack of paint, or different colours are not so obvious in the dark, maybe!!

 

The night shift are busy in the sheds!

 

Plenty of light on intruders.

 

No locos till the layout lands at mine!

 

 

Not quite sure what the signal cabin (Centre Top of the photo) has been repurposed as, possible a mess?

 

Hope you enjoyed the above?

 

Cheers

Paul

[Gibbo675]

8 minutes ago, Tallpaul69 said:

Good Afternoon All,

Minor glitches got in the way so earliest I will see my layout delivered is Monday. I can live with that, rather have it a few days late and all A1, not earlier and me faced with problems when I try to use it!

Anyway, I thought you would like to see the attached "lights out" views of the layout? This might be the way to go for all you folk who are not so keen on the model painting lark? Lack of paint, or different colours are not so obvious in the dark, maybe!!

 

The night shift are busy in the sheds!

 

Plenty of light on intruders.

 

No locos till the layout lands at mine!

 

 

Not quite sure what the signal cabin (Centre Top of the photo) has been repurposed as, possible a mess?

 

Hope you enjoyed the above?

 

Cheers

Paul

Hi Paul,

 

With all those lights it could be a disco to go with all of Clive's music rails  tracks!

 

Gibbo.

[Clive Mortimore]

3 hours ago, MJI said:

Anyone know much about the 114 DMUs the long Derby units?

 

The ends and body profile appear very similar to the high density sets (115-6-7-8-121-122-127)  And class 125

Hi Martin

 

They had the same LMS type profile like the high density units and the class 107.

 

Derby units are a bit of a strange thing, the light weights both the yellow diamond series and the class 108 have a continuous curve like BR Mk1 coaches but their windows are low down like Stanier stock. The classes 107 and 114 had an LMS profile with high windows like a Mk1. In many ways the high density units were the same as the heavy weights but with Mk 1 non gangway type windows. 

[Gibbo675]

33 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Martin

 

They had the same LMS type profile like the high density units and the class 107.

 

Derby units are a bit of a strange thing, the light weights both the yellow diamond series and the class 108 have a continuous curve like BR Mk1 coaches but their windows are low down like Stanier stock. The classes 107 and 114 had an LMS profile with high windows like a Mk1. In many ways the high density units were the same as the heavy weights but with Mk 1 non gangway type windows. 

Hi Clive,

 

Do you think they made the body profiles and window arrangements in such a way on purpose, to make cut and shuts difficult ?

 

Gibbo.

[Clive Mortimore]

15 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Clive,

 

Do you think they made the body profiles and window arrangements in such a way on purpose, to make cut and shuts difficult ?

 

Gibbo.

Yes.

[Pacific231G]

On 18/01/2021 at 20:17, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Clive,

 

Do you buy plasticard in 8' X 4' sheets or just a huge stack of A4 sheets ?

 

I've painted my coach:

 

 

Don't worry I have four more different ones that will not get painted yet because I don't have any suitable shades of blue.

 

Gibbo.

 

On 18/01/2021 at 21:25, richard i said:

I like the last couple of posts. Carriages being built. The last definitely showing why they ended up being called carriages. 
great work there, more power to your elbows. 
richard 

(Going back a few days but I've only just seen it) 

The trouble is that it also explains why they're called coaches. I do like that model Gibbo. Would the passengers in the coupé*  at the front (unless it's just the perch for the brakeman) have been supplied with rugs or would they have simply frozen? In the early day they allowed the posher passengers to ride in their own carriages chained on flat wagons. I always wondered if they ever caught fire due to the effects of a nearby locomotive. I suppose that's one way of getting rid of the aristos.

 

*(They had these half compartments, not open at the front of course, in some French coaches until quite late. They were often even first class, especially when they were trying to cram all three classes into a single vehicle to meet some concession requirement. I can think of few things more claustrophobic than travelling in a train in a narrow compartment with a blank wall in front of you but I've a vague memory of travelling in one on the Iof W as a child. Mind you that's what passengers in Wagons Lits sleepers had when their luxury compartment was in day mode)

Edited January 23, 2021 by Pacific231G

[Gibbo675]

1 hour ago, Pacific231G said:

 

The trouble is that it also explains why they're called coaches. I do like that model Gibbo. Would the passengers in the coupé*  at the front (unless it's just the perch for the brakeman) have been supplied with rugs or would they have simply frozen? In the early day they allowed the posher passengers to ride in their own carriages chained on flat wagons. I always wondered if they ever caught fire due to the effects of a nearby locomotive. I suppose that's one way of getting rid of the aristos.

 

*(They had these half compartments, not open at the front of course, in some French coaches until quite late. They were often even first class, especially when they were trying to cram all three classes into a single vehicle to meet some concession requirement. I can think of few things more claustrophobic than travelling in a train in a narrow compartment with a blank wall in front of you but I've a vague memory of travelling in one on the Iof W as a child. Mind you that's what passengers in Wagons Lits sleepers had when their luxury compartment was in day mode)

Hi David,

 

From what I have learned recently the coach is the fancy upholstered wooden bit that you sit in and the carriage is the frame and wheels that carries it all, I feel it is correct to say that you sit in a coach and the coach rides upon a carriage. It could seem that the term underframe replaced the use of the word carriage for the support of the coach in railway parlance and later that the the word carriage and coach then became interchangeable.

 

As for the road type coach that rides upon a railway type carriage/underframe (I've nearly confused myself here !) the two seat coupe was for passengers and the high single seat was for the guard. I would guess that rugs would have been used in winter although whether you provided your own is moot.  That particular type of carriage was not fitted with brakes and probably only lasted a year or two in traffic, the more familiar types of first class carriages lasted at least until 1842, the second class lasted a while longer after being demoted to third class with the building of new enclosed second class coaches. The L&MR had some carriages that were fitted with curtains instead of windows but were later converted to having windows.

 

As for cinders, roofs were originally provided on the second class carriages against the deposition of cinders rather than weather protection as the L&MR did have claims against them for burned clothing of the passengers. it would seem that rain is what happens outside and they were happy to put up with that. That said it would have taken two days to walk from Liverpool to Manchester so better a couple of hours getting soaked than two whole days perhaps ? Quite a different outlook on the world from where we take reference.

 

I have some more first class carriages to build ones with curtains, before getting into luggage wagons (I've been reading books again) and the early version of Motorail for horse carriages. The horse boxes, all two of them, are already built.

 

This contraption was in my head but is now on the bench, do take a look:

 

 

Gibbo.

Edited January 23, 2021 by Gibbo675
Improper grammar.

[Gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

I've just had a thought and it is that, Mk1's are carriages yet Mk2's and Mk3's may only be termed coaches for the latter are monocoque construction, ie. the design not using an underframe or carriage. It could be argued that bogies are a type of carriage truck but as bogies are interchangeable and not particular to the design of the coach then that term does not apply.

The Mk1 design is predicated upon the underframe design and therefore it is a carriage type, GUV's are Mk1 types as is RDB977091 which had a Leyland bus/coach body applied to the underframe/carriage.

 

Not that I'm short of stuff about which to engage one's own noggin ever.

 

Gibbo.

[MJI]

4 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Martin

 

They had the same LMS type profile like the high density units and the class 107.

 

Derby units are a bit of a strange thing, the light weights both the yellow diamond series and the class 108 have a continuous curve like BR Mk1 coaches but their windows are low down like Stanier stock. The classes 107 and 114 had an LMS profile with high windows like a Mk1. In many ways the high density units were the same as the heavy weights but with Mk 1 non gangway type windows. 

 

 

Thanks I may try to cut sides to overlay on Lima DMUs, may be an easy way to create one.

[MJI]

I redid the 120 sides today, then did two sets of inner sides

 

 

I am currently leaving teh two sets of inner sides laminating overnight with limonene (I hope it works)

[Pacific231G]

2 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi David,

 

From what I have learned recently the coach is the fancy upholstered wooden bit that you sit in and the carriage is the frame and wheels that carries it all, I feel it is correct to say that you sit in a coach and the coach rides upon a carriage. It could seem that the term underframe replaced the use of the word carriage for the support of the coach in railway parlance and later that the the word carriage and coach then became interchangeable.

 

As for the road type coach that rides upon a railway type carriage/underframe (I've nearly confused myself here !) the two seat coupe was for passengers and the high single seat was for the guard. I would guess that rugs would have been used in winter although whether you provided your own is moot.  That particular type of carriage was not fitted with brakes and probably only lasted a year or two in traffic, the more familiar types of first class carriages lasted at least until 1842, the second class lasted a while longer after being demoted to third class with the building of new enclosed second class coaches. The L&MR had some carriages that were fitted with curtains instead of windows but were later converted to having windows.

 

As for cinders, roofs were originally provided on the second class carriages against the deposition of cinders rather than weather protection as the L&MR did have claims against them for burned clothing of the passengers. it would seem that rain is what happens outside and they were happy to put up with that. That said it would have taken two days to walk from Liverpool to Manchester so better a couple of hours getting soaked than two whole days perhaps ? Quite a different outlook on the world from where we take reference.

 

I have some more first class carriages to build ones with curtains, before getting into luggage wagons (I've been reading books again) and the early version of Motorail for horse carriages. The horse boxes, all two of them, are already built.

 

This contraption was in my head but is now on the bench, do take a look:

 

 

Gibbo.

Hi Gibbo

Sorry to create confusion.  It was the situation where the gentry's road coaches were loaded onto flat wagons, with the gentry still aboard,  that I was thinking of in terms of fire risk. I gather that their horses (or enough of them) were sent ahead on an earlier goods train, presumably accompanied by their groom, ready to take them on to whatever stately pile they were headed for. Of course we now do something similar, though in far less style, when we drive our horseless carriages onto trains and stay in them to avoid seasickness in the English Channel -plus ca change! 

Having two words for the same thing as in coach and carriage isn't peculiar to Brtain. The Compagnie Internationale des Wagons Lits actually called their sleeping cars Voiture- Lits (at  least in French they did)

[Gibbo675]

21 minutes ago, Pacific231G said:

Hi Gibbo

Sorry to create confusion.  It was the situation where the gentry's road coaches were loaded onto flat wagons, with the gentry still aboard,  that I was thinking of in terms of fire risk. I gather that their horses (or enough of them) were sent ahead on an earlier goods train, presumably accompanied by their groom, ready to take them on to whatever stately pile they were headed for. Of course we now do something similar, though in far less style, when we drive our horseless carriages onto trains and stay in them to avoid seasickness in the English Channel -plus ca change! 

Having two words for the same thing as in coach and carriage isn't peculiar to Brtain. The Compagnie Internationale des Wagons Lits actually called their sleeping cars Voiture- Lits (at  least in French they did)

Hi David,

 

You are quite correct that there were wagons for carrying the gentry's road carriages, they were fitted with iron channels which were adjustable to fit the width of the road carriages wheels. These are what I meant when I wrote early Motorail. I can't work out if when these wagons were used the horse box was attached to the same train or sent forward on goods trains. What is interesting is that horse boxes were among the first vehicles to be fitted with sprung buffers.

 

As for fire risk I don't know how exactly how much trouble was caused by cinders thrown from locomotive's chimneys other than clothes burned in open topped carriages.

 

Regarding information of the time a lot of it seems to be found in letters of the day written by passengers rather than from railway reports and as such can be a little vague.

 

I'm having fun with it all the same !

 

Gibbo.

Edited January 24, 2021 by Gibbo675
Improper grammar.

[Ray H]

I have a vague recollection from my days with LUL and its predecessors/successors that what modellers frequently call bogies were often referred to as trucks by the rolling stock people..

[Northmoor]

17 minutes ago, Ray H said:

I have a vague recollection from my days with LUL and its predecessors/successors that what modellers frequently call bogies were often referred to as trucks by the rolling stock people..

Every reference I see to them in LU now refers to bogies, but you may well be right for an earlier period.  LU does though, refer to carriages as cars and drivers as operators (the term "motorman" disappeared many years ago).