RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted January 27, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2019 Hi John Is yours one of the two versions that have been made Hopefully Stu will give us an update where the boat is today. Edit, by the time your model has traveled from China to Kernow and then to Van Diemansland it would have done more miles than the loco it represents. Yes, K2601 (D601 Ark Royal in original condition). Alluding to your earlier post, my layout doesn't rely on it for convincing operation but it will be a nice addition. Had Kernow not announced it I might well have tried an MTK kit or a Hornby conversion (I've still got the bits to convert a Hornby NBL to the hydraulic version but Dapol beat me to it of course). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted January 27, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2019 Yes, K2601 (D601 Ark Royal in original condition). Alluding to your earlier post, my layout doesn't rely on it for convincing operation but it will be a nice addition. Had Kernow not announced it I might well have tried an MTK kit or a Hornby conversion (I've still got the bits to convert a Hornby NBL to the hydraulic version but Dapol beat me to it of course). Your layout is set in Cornwall at that sort of time and as you say it will be a nice addition, a bit like a B16/3 for me. It is the waffle from some on the Kernow D600 thread as if it was the most important class of loco. As I have already said I look forward to seeing all these Cornish layouts of the late 50s to early 60s. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold john new Posted January 27, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 27, 2019 Hi John Is yours one of the two versions that have been made Hopefully Stu will give us an update where the boat is today. Edit, by the time your model has traveled from China to Kernow and then to Van Diemansland it would have done more miles than the loco it represents. Mileage. At 1:76 how does 76 times that distance China - U.K. - Aus/NZ equate in scale miles to service miles of the real one? And I guess the container boats carrying it go the long way round the Cape rather than through Suez too. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted January 27, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 27, 2019 Moored in Yantian, China 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted January 27, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2019 Moored in Yantian, China So not going anywhere in a hurry, just like the D6xxs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted January 27, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 27, 2019 It's moved north-east of HK, which is not the best route to the UK. No suggestion as yet ( that I can see on the free version) of the next port of call. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Hi John Is yours one of the two versions that have been made Hopefully Stu will give us an update where the boat is today. Edit, by the time your model has traveled from China to Kernow and then to Van Diemansland it would have done more miles than the loco it represents. And that according to my dear wife is what is called; saving the planet! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted January 27, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2019 (edited) I am very confused. I have a photo of the coal hoist at Kings Cross Passenger Loco, side on which I have used to get the dimensions for my model. Photo taken in LNER days. Last night I found another side on photo and the loco next to the coal hoist seems further away. Photo taken a couple of years before the diesel take over. Taking my ruler to the photos and measuring from the track the loco is on and the track the coal tubs run on, where the narrow gauge track is 10mm wide, the distance to the loco track should be the same. It shows the photo I have been working with to be closer than the other one. The track the locos are on is over the ash pit, so that would not have been moved. The contraption did receive a shoot some time during BR days. The tub lift had its own hopper, which in the LNER photo reaches the tender of the loco. Viewing the BR one it wouldn't without the new shoot fixed to the frame. Would they have relocated the coal hoist? How far from the loco track does my hoist need to be? I also built the shelter for the chaps unloading the coal into the tubs. Only to read Paul Goldsmiths thread on his model of the Colchester hoist where he states the shelters were covered in corrugated iron, I had used embossed planked plastic card. Looking at photos of these structures, and they always seem to have an engine if front they are made of wrinkly tin so off came the planks on went some corrugated plastic. These were not standard, some were placed so they were on the tubs side and others the wagon side. I am going to have a fiddle with mine to see which looks the worse. Edited January 27, 2019 by Clive Mortimore Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northmoor Posted January 27, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2019 It's moved north-east of HK, which is not the best route to the UK. No suggestion as yet ( that I can see on the free version) of the next port of call. Probably sailing trans-Pacific then either the container will go by rail across to the East Coast US ports or the ship will go through the Panama Canal before continuing to Europe. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted January 27, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2019 It's moved north-east of HK, which is not the best route to the UK. No suggestion as yet ( that I can see on the free version) of the next port of call. Wouldn't it be funny if it called in at Botany Bay en-route to the UK. :nono: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted January 27, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2019 Probably sailing trans-Pacific then either the container will go by rail across to the East Coast US ports or the ship will go through the Panama Canal before continuing to Europe. The Kernow website states it should arrive in Southampton around the 21st February. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted January 27, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2019 The coal hoist and shelter. The pliers are being used to weight the back of the shelter until it is fixed in place. The hoist is not fixed to the base so is only propped up hence it looking like it has had a good Saturday night on the beer. With the shelter the other way round. The diesels have not been forgotten. 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted January 27, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2019 In the last lot of photos there is a water tower, it is the Bachmann one. I think it looks OK. No need to build one, which good news after the fun I had with water towers for Brisbane Road. At first I made a model of the water tower at Chelmsford, it was too small. Then I thought I would adapt the Ratio one, that didn't look right but it does on Pig Lane (Western Region). I then purchased the Bachmann one and the Sceinc's one. Both were the right size but didn't look right on Brisbane Road, so it ended up with my scratchbuilt more modern looking one that had performed so well on Pig Lane, and Hanging Hill. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
great central Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 As I have already said I look forward to seeing all these Cornish layouts of the late 50s to early 60s. In the same way I looked forward to seeing lots of Woodhead route layouts following the release of the Olivia's/Heljan EM1s and EM2s? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 I can't help much with the Kings Cross coal hoist, but it does show up on this photo of 70040. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted January 27, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2019 This is the one I built for Brisbane Road and I added the shoot the same as the King Cross one. The hoist at Hatfield never had the additional shoot so there is an excuse not to model it. It just seems strange that the later photo shows the hoist further away from the loco, so it must have been moved, but when and why. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted January 27, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2019 I am very confused. I have a photo of the coal hoist at Kings Cross Passenger Loco, side on which I have used to get the dimensions for my model. Photo taken in LNER days. Last night I found another side on photo and the loco next to the coal hoist seems further away. Photo taken a couple of years before the diesel take over. Taking my ruler to the photos and measuring from the track the loco is on and the track the coal tubs run on, where the narrow gauge track is 10mm wide, the distance to the loco track should be the same. It shows the photo I have been working with to be closer than the other one. The track the locos are on is over the ash pit, so that would not have been moved. The contraption did receive a shoot some time during BR days. The tub lift had its own hopper, which in the LNER photo reaches the tender of the loco. Viewing the BR one it wouldn't without the new shoot fixed to the frame. Would they have relocated the coal hoist? How far from the loco track does my hoist need to be? I also built the shelter for the chaps unloading the coal into the tubs. Only to read Paul Goldsmiths thread on his model of the Colchester hoist where he states the shelters were covered in corrugated iron, I had used embossed planked plastic card. Looking at photos of these structures, and they always seem to have an engine if front they are made of wrinkly tin so off came the planks on went some corrugated plastic. These were not standard, some were placed so they were on the tubs side and others the wagon side. I am going to have a fiddle with mine to see which looks the worse. Hi Clive, your query has had me going through my books! I had never thought about it before, but I think it looks as though the whole coal hoist was replaced by a different one, similar but not the same, some time in the 1950s. The best close up picture I've seen of it shows an N2 standing in front of it (LNER No, 26xx) with a man standing on it's cab roof. This is on the cover of "LNER Sheds in Camera" and also appears inside, where it says it was taken in 1931. In "The Great British Railway Station - King's Cross" there is a picture (p73) of 60113 'Great Northern' in front of the coaler taken (probably from York Road platform) on 29.08.51, and it looks the same as the 1931 picture. The fence behind the railway looks the same, too. But the upper picture on the same page, dated 10.01.57, shows the coaler from the other side (possibly taken from the tenement block behind the Milk Yard), and it looks quite different! Not only (as you say) does it now have a shoot, but the ironwork looks different (more vertical pieces, and more robust looking). On the next page, another view from York Road platform, dated 3.5.61 showing guess what 70040 Clive of India; compared with the 1951 shot of 'Great Northern' in the same place the coaler looks quite different, and possibly taller. By now the fence behind the railway has gone and the building with the curvy roof, the Road Motor Repair Shops, has now been built behind the Passenger Loco. I have not come across anything in writing yet which says the hoist was replaced, but am still looking. Could it have perhaps come from Yarmouth Beach or South Lynn (but they would have still been open in 1957)? Or perhaps a completely new one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulgabill Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Your layout is set in Cornwall at that sort of time and as you say it will be a nice addition, a bit like a B16/3 for me. It is the waffle from some on the Kernow D600 thread as if it was the most important class of loco. As I have already said I look forward to seeing all these Cornish layouts of the late 50s to early 60s. You should have said, you could have visited Helstonish, without waiting, but it's got a 4' gap in it now. I couldn't possibly let you near that! Mind you it might be filled before THAT boat makes it this side of the pond. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted January 27, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2019 Hi Clive, your query has had me going through my books! I had never thought about it before, but I think it looks as though the whole coal hoist was replaced by a different one, similar but not the same, some time in the 1950s. The best close up picture I've seen of it shows an N2 standing in front of it (LNER No, 26xx) with a man standing on it's cab roof. This is on the cover of "LNER Sheds in Camera" and also appears inside, where it says it was taken in 1931. In "The Great British Railway Station - King's Cross" there is a picture (p73) of 60113 'Great Northern' in front of the coaler taken (probably from York Road platform) on 29.08.51, and it looks the same as the 1931 picture. The fence behind the railway looks the same, too. But the upper picture on the same page, dated 10.01.57, shows the coaler from the other side (possibly taken from the tenement block behind the Milk Yard), and it looks quite different! Not only (as you say) does it now have a shoot, but the ironwork looks different (more vertical pieces, and more robust looking). On the next page, another view from York Road platform, dated 3.5.61 showing guess what 70040 Clive of India; compared with the 1951 shot of 'Great Northern' in the same place the coaler looks quite different, and possibly taller. By now the fence behind the railway has gone and the building with the curvy roof, the Road Motor Repair Shops, has now been built behind the Passenger Loco. I have not come across anything in writing yet which says the hoist was replaced, but am still looking. Could it have perhaps come from Yarmouth Beach or South Lynn (but they would have still been open in 1957)? Or perhaps a completely new one? Hi Steve Thanks. To me it looks like the same one but with more bits added. I am wondering if it was relocated when the first set of fuel tanks were installed, but then the ash pit wouldn't have been moved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted January 27, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2019 Hello again! Just continuing to go through "The Great British Railway Station - King's Cross" and there is a nice picture from an unusual angle showing D16 62605 standing in front of the coaler, dated 29.04.56, on p.167. This gives a very clear detailed view of the new (or modified?) coaler looking from the north to the west, with the tenement block in the background. The Road Motor building isn't there, but there may be signs of construction work for it. In this picture it looks a lot like your "Brisbane Road" model. I did wonder whether the original one was strengthened or enlarged to deal with heavier loads, or something, but if so they must have added quite a lot! For instance the platform at the top with presumably the electric motor on it looks quite different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Incase you were after opinions, the shelter in orientation 2 in your pictures looks better to me. Gives the guys working to move coal from big wagons to little wagons a bit more protection. All looks really good though Clive, nice work. Map Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenser Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Probably sailing trans-Pacific then either the container will go by rail across to the East Coast US ports or the ship will go through the Panama Canal before continuing to Europe. Not a likely routing. There are only 2-3 all water Europe /US W Coast services, and I think only one touches Asia - and US landbridge would probably double the freight cost on its own . The ship is probably wandering round its Far East port rotation before heading to Europe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted January 27, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2019 Hello again! Just continuing to go through "The Great British Railway Station - King's Cross" and there is a nice picture from an unusual angle showing D16 62605 standing in front of the coaler, dated 29.04.56, on p.167. This gives a very clear detailed view of the new (or modified?) coaler looking from the north to the west, with the tenement block in the background. The Road Motor building isn't there, but there may be signs of construction work for it. In this picture it looks a lot like your "Brisbane Road" model. I did wonder whether the original one was strengthened or enlarged to deal with heavier loads, or something, but if so they must have added quite a lot! For instance the platform at the top with presumably the electric motor on it looks quite different. Hi Steve Do you have the second edition of "The Great British Railway Station - King's Cross" because I have a first edition and a lot of different photos. I have been caught out before when I have purchased a revised book to find one page different. Conversely I have not bought the second edition in case it only has one page different to find out it is nearly a different book. I have found a few more photos in various books and I more convinced that the angle the two photos that made me question everything are taken a angles that have made me think they/it are/is in a different place. I now don't think so, I think it is the same hoist just heavily modified. I have moved the model 5mm away from the track and it looks a lot better. Thanks for all your help. I have been busy driving trains not model making, the other half of our hobby, so I am told. You should see the Transpennine zomm around, the power car pushing 4 unweighted Tri-ang coaches and they don't fall off. :locomotive: As I write I have a six car unit making its way from Preston and a 2 car has just departed Doncaster bound for Exchange. We are listening to Ten days after this was recorded the singer Mia Zapata was raped and murdered. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted January 27, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2019 Ah sorry Clive, yes I should have mentioned, it was the second edition I was looking at. I have the first as well, and at first I thought it wasn't worth buying the second but it does have a lot more photos in it (as well as a section about The Ladykilliers film!). The picture with the D16 in front of the coaler is the best and clearest picture I've seen of it. Still doesn't really answer the question as to why there seems to be a bigger gap between it and the rails I'm afraid, though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted January 27, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2019 The new location And when the lift tips the coal should go in the bunker I had to hold it as it is the tub lift that keeps it upright. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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