Sheffield Exchange, Toy trains, music and fun!

[Clive Mortimore]

40 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Folks,

 

Here is some DMU action for you all to look at:

 

Cravens 105 Power Twin, Lima  power bogie.

 

Gloucester 100 - Cravens 105 Hybrid, Hornby power bogie.

 

It does look a bit like Vic Berry's in the back ground though !

 

Gibbo.

Hi Gibbo

 

The Gloucester looks superb.

 

Are the Cravens Charlie Petty kits?

[Gibbo675]

Just now, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Gibbo

 

The Gloucester looks superb.

 

Are the Cravens Charlie Petty kits?

Hi Clive,

 

The Cravens 105, Metropolitan Cammel 101, Derby 108 and Derby Lightweight are all from Charlie Petty's DC Kits.

 

From building them the Derby's were the easiest the Cravens next and the Metropolitan Cammel was the most difficult. The reasons being that the Derby's have a decent thickness to the body sides and stay straight, the Cravens are a little flimsy and warp if you are not careful and the roof line joint on the Metropolitan Cammel is very tricky to keep a smooth line.

 

The type of plastic used is quite difficult to cement despite using an appropriate solvent, I use EMA plastic weld.

 

Gibbo.

[Clive Mortimore]

Some photos showing how far I have got with the Gresley cut and shuts. The roofs are not yet fitted to the bodies. The is a load of filling and then careful filing to do as well as adding quite a lot of beading. Plus I have all the under gubbins to make. Where sides are a mirror image of each other I couldn't be bothered to take a second photo.

 

The 4 bay BSO dia 191, the body looks the same as a 4 compartemnt end door BSK.

 

The GE shortie FK dia 140, both sides. The corridor windows should be slightly longer but as the Railroad models have them in the right place I have left them alone.

 

The TSO dia 186, as with the two BSOs I need to make the sliding ventilators for the windows.

 

The SK dia 115, both sides, unlike the GE shortie FK I have made the corridor windows the right sizes so the coach would be the right length.

 

and finally the 6 bay BSO dia 196

 

 

The two BSOs are on Hornby old style Gresley bogies and have wagon wheels not coach wheels, so they need replacing. Every secondhand one of these coaches I have bought has wagon wheels , they must have been fitted with them from new.

 

Edited August 12, 2019 by Clive Mortimore

[Clive Mortimore]

23 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Clive,

 

The Cravens 105, Metropolitan Cammel 101, Derby 108 and Derby Lightweight are all from Charlie Petty's DC Kits.

 

From building them the Derby's were the easiest the Cravens next and the Metropolitan Cammel was the most difficult. The reasons being that the Derby's have a decent thickness to the body sides and stay straight, the Cravens are a little flimsy and warp if you are not careful and the roof line joint on the Metropolitan Cammel is very tricky to keep a smooth line.

 

The type of plastic used is quite difficult to cement despite using an appropriate solvent, I use EMA plastic weld.

 

Gibbo.

Hi Gibbo

 

I have had some in the past, and the plastic is an odd ball to cement. I had assembled a Derby lightweights body, a few months later went to do some more work on it and it fell apart when I picked it up......I had used my trusted Revel Contacta

[Gibbo675]

2 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Some photos showing how far I have got with the Gresley cut and shuts. The roofs are not yet fitted to the bodies. The is a load of filling and then careful filing to do as well as adding quite a lot of beading. Plus I have all the under gubbins to make. Where sides are a mirror image of each other I couldn't be bothered to take a second photo.

 

The 4 bay BSO dia 19, the body looks the same as a 4 compartemnt end door BSK.

 

The GE shortie FK dia 140, both sides. The corridor windows should be slightly longer but as the Railroad models have them in the right place I have left them alone.

 

The TSO dia 186, as with the two BSOs I need to make the sliding ventilators for the windows.

 

The SK dia 115, both sides, unlike the GE shortie FK I have made the corridor windows the right sizes so the coach would be the right length.

 

and finally the 6 bay BSO dia 196

 

 

The two BSOs are on Hornby old style Gresley bogies and have wagon wheels not coach wheels, so they need replacing. Every secondhand one o0f these coaches I have bought has wagon wheels , they must have been fitted with them from new.

 

Hi Clive,

 

Are you sure you built these coaches ?  They are all of the same colour !

 

As for the wagon wheels they are 12mm diameter for 3' wheels, Gresley coaches had 3' 6" wheels and so should be 14mm diameter. Fitting 14mm wheels will cause the coaches to be 1mm to high and there is the possibility of the flanges fouling the underside of the coach, have fun with that !

 

Gibbo.

[Gibbo675]

4 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Gibbo

 

I have had some in the past, and the plastic is an odd ball to cement. I had assembled a Derby lightweights body, a few months later went to do some more work on it and it fell apart when I picked it up......I had used my trusted Revel Contacta

Hi Clive,

 

EMA Plastic Weld is different stuff and smells even worse than Revell Contacta which is of no use whatsoever with the tyoe of plastic that DC Kits use for their models. Having read the label on the bottle it is Methylene Chloride which will no doubt do you a power of good from just taking the top from the bottle.

 

Gibbo.

[Clive Mortimore]

22 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Clive,

 

Are you sure you built these coaches ?  They are all of the same colour !

 

As for the wagon wheels they are 12mm diameter for 3' wheels, Gresley coaches had 3' 6" wheels and so should be 14mm diameter. Fitting 14mm wheels will cause the coaches to be 1mm to high and there is the possibility of the flanges fouling the underside of the coach, have fun with that !

 

Gibbo.

Hi Gibbo

 

I am aware that the two with the older bogies are sitting slightly lower that the others, I built all the chassis to the same dimensions knowing those two needed re wheeling.

[Clive Mortimore]

5 hours ago, john new said:

Hi Clive.

 

Why not assume that Exchange was bomb damaged so badly that whatever stye of overall roof it had was removed for safety but with ancillary buildings renovated or rebuilt as you see fit (Prototype - Middlesbrough). 

 

Perhaps some form of temporary structure over the concourse area, but still not redeveloped by your circa 1960 era setting as (for your back story) the BR Property Board. local Council and commercial developers are still arguing on how this bomb damaged area of the City should be rebuilt. See pages 9-10 here - https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/content/dam/sheffield/docs/libraries-and-archives/archives-and-local-studies/research/Short-History--PDF--428-KB-.pdf  Perhaps the attitudes to your Exchange in the Modernisation Plan Report were aiding the uncertainty.

 

This list of resources may help if this scenario assists in establishing why your otherwise imposing station is roofless - https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/content/dam/sheffield/docs/libraries-and-archives/archives-and-local-studies/research/Blitz study guide v1-3.pdf as might http://www.yorkshirefilmarchive.com/film/new-towns-old 

 

 

Hi John

 

The results of horrific bombing of Sheffield was a scenario I had considered with Exchange Mk1 but on hearing a radio play based on an attack on the city I had a major rethink. The basis of the story was about a group of chaps coming home from work when the air raid warning was sounded, they ended up in the basement of a hotel which was hit and were not rescued for quite a while afterwards. It had all the tension of were they going to be saved, and all their worries about their loved ones. None of the families of these chaps survived. 

 

About the same time, again on the radio was a item about a statue to the women who worked in the steel works during the war. There was an interviewed with a couple of them and they mentioned how they carried on working as the bombs fell. You cannot stop production of steel halfway through and restart when the Luftwaffe has gone home. The bravery of these ladies, and the blokes they worked with is equal to front line soldiers.

 

I am going to stick with my imaginary roof for the time being.

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi John

 

The results of horrific bombing of Sheffield was a scenario I had considered with Exchange Mk1 but on hearing a radio play based on an attack on the city I had a major rethink. The basis of the story was about a group of chaps coming home from work when the air raid warning was sounded, they ended up in the basement of a hotel which was hit and were not rescued for quite a while afterwards. It had all the tension of were they going to be saved, and all their worries about their loved ones. None of the families of these chaps survived. 

 

About the same time, again on the radio was a item about a statue to the women who worked in the steel works during the war. There was an interviewed with a couple of them and they mentioned how they carried on working as the bombs fell. You cannot stop production of steel halfway through and restart when the Luftwaffe has gone home. The bravery of these ladies, and the blokes they worked with is equal to front line soldiers.

 

I am going to stick with my imaginary roof for the time being.

Ugh, that sent a shiver down my spine - much as did the scene in Battle of Britain when Ian McShane (Sgt Pilot Andy) lost his family. I know it was just fiction, but...

 

Talking of fiction, a very graphic tale along similar lines is the early Nevil Shute novel "What Happened to the Corbetts".

[Enterprisingwestern]

6 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi John

 

The results of horrific bombing of Sheffield was a scenario I had considered with Exchange Mk1 but on hearing a radio play based on an attack on the city I had a major rethink. The basis of the story was about a group of chaps coming home from work when the air raid warning was sounded, they ended up in the basement of a hotel which was hit and were not rescued for quite a while afterwards. It had all the tension of were they going to be saved, and all their worries about their loved ones. None of the families of these chaps survived. 

 

About the same time, again on the radio was a item about a statue to the women who worked in the steel works during the war. There was an interviewed with a couple of them and they mentioned how they carried on working as the bombs fell. You cannot stop production of steel halfway through and restart when the Luftwaffe has gone home. The bravery of these ladies, and the blokes they worked with is equal to front line soldiers.

 

I am going to stick with my imaginary roof for the time being.

 

My mother worked at Rabone Chesterman during the war and one night when walking home with agroup of workmates, (from Ecclesall Road to Grimesthorpe, no mean feat in itself), the air raid siren sounded as they were in the centre of Sheffield, most of her friends took refuge in the air raid shelter in the Marples hotel, but being the hardy type my mother decided to carry on walking and take her chances. The Marples took a direct hit that night and work the day after was a somewhat more sombre place, especially as she had to walk past the Marples on the way back to work the following day.

 

https://sheffieldblitz.wordpress.com/2015/12/18/marples-hotel/

 

Mike.

[StephenB]

Your ‘new’ Gresleys are beginning to look fine. This is a place where ‘cut and shut’ is an acceptable way to carry on.

 

Stephen

[John Tomlinson]

12 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Clive,

 

EMA Plastic Weld is different stuff and smells even worse than Revell Contacta which is of no use whatsoever with the tyoe of plastic that DC Kits use for their models. Having read the label on the bottle it is Methylene Chloride which will no doubt do you a power of good from just taking the top from the bottle.

 

Gibbo.

Mr. Petty does recommend some stuff called "Butanone" - if I've spelt it correctly, available from 51L/ MSE.

 

I have one of his 114 kits in my cupboard, and asked him at a show why the specification, apparently he chose a tough ABS type plastic for manufacture in order to have a relatively thin side in the window areas, hence the need for the stronger solvent. I've test fit the 114 and it looks good, but some way down the list at present.

 

John.

[John Tomlinson]

16 hours ago, jazzer said:

 

Thank you  Clive. Problem solved and you can report to Mrs M that you are a technical genius. 

 

The jigsaw puzzle has fallen into place. I could have sworn that this model didn’t have traction tyres , in fact when I also dug out an old Lima Class 40/Type 4 diesel it  crossed my mind that it was a bit odd that they fitted traction tyres to that but not the DMU. What has happened is that the DMU has lost its traction tyres ( probably why I picked it up cheap as a non- Runner)  but the wheels were so filthy the absence of tyres wasn’t noticed. Having checked just now I can see that now that the wheels are clean the t/tyres are missing but last night I just cleaned the wheels and put it straight on the track without noticing.

 

Anyway I’ve just given it another track test and having had 24 hours for the fresh oil to seep in a bit more it’s not all that bad. Not acceptable standard yet but good enough to justify a bit more work on, and ...Er....get hold of some traction tyres !

 

Thanks to you and all the others that made some input.

If the wheels were that grubby the innards may well be too.

 

Should you feel the urge to do more, it's not diificult to take the gears apart by undoing the brass hex screws, and also undo the two big screws in the motor housing to access the commutator. Remove all gunk and clean gently, then lightly re-oil. The carbon brushes themselves can be accessed by bending back the two metal prongs that hang vertically, be careful not to lose the little springs that keep them in place.

 

John.

[5BarVT]

8 minutes ago, John Tomlinson said:

stuff called "Butanone" - if I've spelt it correctly

You have. Just the modern name for Methyl-ethyl-ketone or MEK-pak from Mr Slater. Cheapest way to purchase is from a chemical supplier otherwise you’re paying a big mark up. But if you only want a little the mark up makes sense. It does disappear all by itself if not tightly capped and it eats some types of plastic/rubber seal!

Paul.

[St Enodoc]

14 minutes ago, John Tomlinson said:

Mr. Petty does recommend some stuff called "Butanone" - if I've spelt it correctly, available from 51L/ MSE.

 

I have one of his 114 kits in my cupboard, and asked him at a show why the specification, apparently he chose a tough ABS type plastic for manufacture in order to have a relatively thin side in the window areas, hence the need for the stronger solvent. I've test fit the 114 and it looks good, but some way down the list at present.

 

John.

Plastic Weld or equivalent is definitely best for ABS (such as grey Plastruct too).

[Fat Controller]

13 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Jazzer

 

The first Class 117s to receive gangways were some Reading based sets so that they could be run with the Hawksworth CKs that were wired to run with DMUs. The Railcar Association web site states 1965.  Gradually all WR based Suburban units were fitted with gangways. 

The gangways were recovered from older coaches that were being scrapped, and from parcels vans that were having them removed. IIRC, there were some that received their gangways when in Rail Blue.

[jazzer]

4 minutes ago, John Tomlinson said:

If the wheels were that grubby the innards may well be too.

 

Should you feel the urge to do more, it's not diificult to take the gears apart by undoing the brass hex screws, and also undo the two big screws in the motor housing to access the commutator. Remove all gunk and clean gently, then lightly re-oil. The carbon brushes themselves can be accessed by bending back the two metal prongs that hang vertically, be careful not to lose the little springs that keep them in place.

 

John.

 

Oh, boy !  After these things sitting in a box stripped down a partially repainted for the best part of 15 years I do suddenly feel the urge to do more. The problem is I keep getting the urge to do more in all kinds of projects and plenty and nothing ever seems to get completed. After years of layout planning, re-planning, moving from loft to garage, ripping up and re-laying I have finally settled on a track plan I am happy, and got it running properly so I need to get that sprayed and ballasted before it gets too cold outside without getting sidetracked into other things!  It’s only a BLT but too many distractions get in the way.  I am a bit more disciplined these days though.

 

The trouble with this DMU mullarkey is I’m starting to get interested in the things , instead of focusing on my steam        locos !  

 

Anyway, yes I appreciate your comments and once it gets too cold to go outside I’ll probably get on on with smartening up the motors as part of a winter project. That’s for the encouragement.

[John Tomlinson]

Hi Jazzer. I had exactly the same experience re. DMU's, as a teenager in the '70's I wrote the numbers down for something to do between real trains, now I think they're fascinating!

 

You're right about summer and winter projects, motor servicing is definitely in the latter. At present, I'm planning to go outside to do paint spraying/ airbrushing, only really possible in decent warmish weather. I've washed and prepared a stack of stuff to do. Unfortunately it's an aspect of our hobby I really don't like, and in consequence to put it off I've recently;

 

            - washed all the outside paintwork of the house, including gutters

            - cleaned out a trap drain

            - cleaned out and sorted a good bit of our sizeable double garage

            - cleaned out and sorted the entry hall to our house

            - done my tax return

 

and now my legs and knees really hurt!

 

John.

[St Enodoc]

12 minutes ago, John Tomlinson said:

Hi Jazzer. I had exactly the same experience re. DMU's, as a teenager in the '70's I wrote the numbers down for something to do between real trains, now I think they're fascinating!

 

You're right about summer and winter projects, motor servicing is definitely in the latter. At present, I'm planning to go outside to do paint spraying/ airbrushing, only really possible in decent warmish weather. I've washed and prepared a stack of stuff to do. Unfortunately it's an aspect of our hobby I really don't like, and in consequence to put it off I've recently;

 

            - washed all the outside paintwork of the house, including gutters

            - cleaned out a trap drain

            - cleaned out and sorted a good bit of our sizeable double garage

            - cleaned out and sorted the entry hall to our house

            - done my tax return

 

and now my legs and knees really hurt!

 

John.

Blimey, you must really dislike spraying and airbrushing (actually I really dislike airbrush cleaning...)!

[Legend]

I've been following this thread and thoroughly enjoying it , especially all the dmu action . On the overall roof dilemma what about building the front and back sections and imagining the bit in between . That way you've got an impression of the imposing roof  which I think is important in a big terminal station , but you can still see and reach the stock.

[newbryford]

5 minutes ago, Legend said:

I've been following this thread and thoroughly enjoying it , especially all the dmu action . On the overall roof dilemma what about building the front and back sections and imagining the bit in between . That way you've got an impression of the imposing roof  which I think is important in a big terminal station , but you can still see and reach the stock.

 

Howabout copying Buxton...……? (Photos from flickr

 

 

 

 

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

21 hours ago, 31A said:

Some termini have umbrella type awnings; you can still see the trains but the passengers keep dry:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/38339202@N00/11149861553

 

 

Post WW2 Cannon St (London) is a good example. Still had the walls and towers from the original roof.

[Gibbo675]

4 hours ago, jazzer said:

 

Oh, boy !  

 

The trouble with this DMU mullarkey is I’m starting to get interested in the things , instead of focusing on my steam        locos !  

 

Hi Jazzer,

 

Think yourself lucky,I've gone a step worse than DMU's and made a start on building LEV 3 and RB004 from Hornby class 142's and Peco Leyland National bus kits.

 

Gibbo.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Oh dear, owing to something or other I seem to be stranded in Schipol for 24 hours. 

 

Thankfully KLM have put me up in a hotel somewhere.  I suppose I better go and find it.

[newbryford]

28 minutes ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

Oh dear, owing to something or other I seem to be stranded in Schipol for 24 hours. 

 

Thankfully KLM have put me up in a hotel somewhere.  I suppose I better go and find it.

 

Could be worse, you could have been stranded in Sheffield (*)

 

(*) other locations are available...............